Newbie trying to hold back 1000 questions...

elimjohnson · 12/31/2008, 11:05 AM

Hey Everyone,

I have a 55G marine tank that I am just starting out. Currently no fish and only some live sand and live rock in a Rena XP3 canister filter (which I will keep using). I know, I know, I am going to start building a 20G Tall sump pretty quick...which brings me to some questions:

1) I have been looking at protein skimmers up to around $200 and have found many of course. With limited room (as much for live rock as possible) I need to find a skimmer with as small a footprint as possible (including pump). I have been looking and have found these but do not think the dimensions include the pump, please comment:

Vertex IN-80
https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...egory=FIPSISNW

Octopus OCT-NW-150 (THINK THERE IS A NEWER BETTER VERSION OF THIS????)
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Protei...duct_info.html

ProClear Aquatics Motorized 150
http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquat...0740188&sr=1-3

If you use one of these or know of something better, I would appreciate hearing it.

2) Auto Top Off in a sump. My sump will be 3 chambers, 1st for main tank output...live rock...heater, 2nd for protein skimmer, 3rd for return pump. Where can i put and ATO that functions properly. I will be using a CPR CS50 overflow box as well, and am worried what will happen should that cyphen break and the ATO thinking it constantly needs more water.

Also, DIY or the Gap Level-Loc ATO?

3) Do I want the sump return pump as close to the top of the water as possible? Is there a good return pump that will turn off when it overheats?

4) Is there a "REAL" master test kit out there, or is piecing one together about the only option.

5) Need to find a lot of live rock at an affordable price, my pet store is ridiculous at $7+ per pound that I can see stuff growing on it that shouldnt be there (aptasia).

6) Gonna use black Krylon Fusion paint for my intakes and returns, I believe this is ok for fish?

7) I have read that regular water changes are necessary often...my pet store says they are not necessary much at all when the tanks is finally setup. Which is true?

8) Have been looking at this RO/DI setup, please comment:

75GPD RO/DI 5 Stage *PLUS*
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html

If you know of something better, I would appreciate hearing it.

Sorry for the lengthy post and questions, I wish my local pet store was better equiped to answer some of them. I am sometimes amazed they are able to keep anything alive with all the conflicting information I get from them.

Thank you,

Eli

jenglish · 12/31/2008, 11:17 AM

http://www.purewaterclub.com/

I have not bought one yet but I know people are very happy w/ RO units from here and get as good of results as typhoons.

Its not top of the line but API makes a reefmaster test kit thats nitrate phosphate, calcium and alk tests. Less accurate than salifert or elos but much less pricey.

Depending on what you want to keep and your overall setup I suppose some systems can go longer w/o WC. But as a general rule, yes regular water changes are the most important maintenance one can do.

as far as skimmmers I will only say I'm a bit biased for Octopus

fishyfriend4u · 12/31/2008, 08:19 PM

1) Can not help you with this one, I got A ASM G3 skimmer on my 75 does the trick for me.
2) My auto top off, Is on the top of my tank and feed by gravity to my return pump area. This is where the evaporation will effect you!
3) Top off you will want to go in return area so that you stay lvl. And you will not need to worry about overheating i recomed a MAG 5 for your return pump, something submersible, save you room.
4) as far as a test kit goes Salifert is what is recomemded by allot of people but personally all test kits are so far off from each other its crazy. SO think of it this way if there all off what would be the best thing to do, better to have constant conditions, changing test kits all the time with cause a fluctuation. SO pick API , Salifert, REdsea, anything u want. Just make sure u always keep everything the same. Example,a API PH test or a Salfert Cal test. Once u run out you buy another API PH test and a SAlfert Cal test.
5) EBAY!!! Good deals and u get decent rock!
6) Thats all GRavy! GOOD TO GO!
7)Depends on who you talk to! If you want to use supplements and add trace elements and all that then no you don't got to do constant water changes. A water change is don't to renew calcium magnesium and other elements in the water. Also it Helps get rid of debris and dirt. I know someone who hasn't done a water change in 3 years, tank is beautiful, but he doses a ton of stuff to keep everything in line. Also, I know people that do water changes every 2 weeks. It just depends on you! I would recommend doing water changes as my opinion! And also as a rule of thumb, LFS there retarded!
8) looks good to me!

coralreefnc · 08/26/2011, 11:33 PM

try SKIMZ 121, 6" x 6.6 x 21" 53G-250G

coralreefnc · 08/26/2011, 11:34 PM

or try SWC 150 BMK

Ron Reefman · 08/27/2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elimjohnson

3) Do I want the sump return pump as close to the top of the water as possible? Is there a good return pump that will turn off when it overheats?

4) Is there a "REAL" master test kit out there, or is piecing one together about the only option.

5) Need to find a lot of live rock at an affordable price, my pet store is ridiculous at $7+ per pound that I can see stuff growing on it that shouldnt be there (aptasia).

6) Gonna use black Krylon Fusion paint for my intakes and returns, I believe this is ok for fish?

7) I have read that regular water changes are necessary often...my pet store says they are not necessary much at all when the tanks is finally setup. Which is true?

8) Have been looking at this RO/DI setup, please comment:

75GPD RO/DI 5 Stage *PLUS*
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html

If you know of something better, I would appreciate hearing it.

Eli,

I can't help on 1 & 2

3) Don't worry about where the pump is (up or down). If you use a quality submersible pump it won't run too warm and won't overheat.

4) Just get the ones you need and add more as you need them. API is the least expensive and they work OK. I still use them for amonia, nitrate, alk & calcium (I don't test for nitrite anymore). I also use Salifert for mag, calcium & alk (duplicate the API kits). Some API kits are match the color to a chart and therefore a little subjective. But amonia and nitrate are almost always 0 anyway, so I don't care. Even API calcium and alk are color change and therefore more accurate. The Salifert kits read to finer numbers. OK, so API tells me my calcium is at 460 and Salifert says it's 464... do I care?

5) Just buy a small amount of live rock and buy nice base rock from a good supplier like BRS. It's way cheaper and will become live in a month and color up with coraline in 6 mths.

6) If you really feel the need, but why? In 6-12 mths they will be covered with purple coraline algae anyway. The paint is safe for fish, inverts and corals. I only paint my frag rack egg crate.

7) How about, it depends? Newer systems, smaller systems, overstocked systems all benefit from some water changes (like 10-20% once a month or every 2 weeks). But bigger, mature, under stocked, well equipped systems do them less often. The issues are getting Nitrates out and getting trace elements in. There are other ways to remove nitrates (Deep Sand Bed or nitrate reactor- I use both). Getting trace elements in involves adding chemicals... I'd rather just do a 15% water change every 2-4 weeks.

8) RO/DI systems aren't rocket science. 5 stage is good. 75gpd is more than enough. Are the filters and RO membranes readily available and reasonably priced? BRS stuff is usually pretty good. You'll be buying filters long after you have forgotten what you paid for the unit itself. You might look at a system that has 2 RO membranes. I went from a 4 stage 75gpd which gave me a lot of waste water output (like 4-5 gallons of waste for 1 gallon of RO/DI) to a SpctraPure 6 stage (2 RO membranes) 75gpd and it reduced the waste water output by 50%. 'Clean' water rejected by the 1st RO is run to a 2nd RO before it is dumpped as wate. Add a boost pump (most city water is about 40-50psi) and you reduce the waste even more. It's next on my list as SW Florida water is expensive.

lordofthereef · 08/27/2011, 12:36 PM

I thought were were actually going to see 1000 questions. Looking forward to the other 991 you left off!

1) I have never been a fan of live rock in the sump. Ends up creating dead spots long term the majority of the time. Either way, tell us how much room you actually have. That is more useful info.

2) Depending on the type of overflow box, you are at pretty limited risk. Aside from recommending you add a water sensor on your floors, I am not sure I can recommend much to increas eyour level of safety here.

3) You want the return as close to the bottom as possible. You don't want to be sucking air, and if its submersible, you don't want it to be overheating (they are designed to dissipate their heat into the water surrounding them and don't do so well out of the water even for short periods of times).

4) API makes a good test kit. IMO all you need is ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH to start. If you are keeping corals, calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium might be helpful, depending on what you are keeping. I suppose you would "piece it together". You'd basically need the saltwater master and the reef master kits.

5) Local clubs are helpful here. Craigslist can also be helpful. You can end up with all of these same parasites buying through these avenues too.

6) Yes

7) Depends on what you are keeping. Also depends on whether you are dosing anything. One of the easiest ways to keep things in check is water changes. You certainly can go longer between changes once your tank is established.

8) That's a good RO unit. BRS is also a great company that will treat you right. After that, I recommend wair, water, and ice. They have almost treated me well and gone above and beyond to keep me as a customer.

fender4string · 08/27/2011, 12:46 PM

Nix the live rock in the sump. Instead set up a portion to be used for macro algae (specifically chaetomorpha, or chaeto for short). All you need is a CF spotlight bulb and some flow and it'll grow well enough. In my opinion a refugium with macro algae is a necessity.

Also, I'm sorry to derail but jenglish, I love your avatar probably more than I should.

12/31/2008, 11:05 AM	#1
elimjohnson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA Posts: 1	Newbie trying to hold back 1000 questions... Hey Everyone, I have a 55G marine tank that I am just starting out. Currently no fish and only some live sand and live rock in a Rena XP3 canister filter (which I will keep using). I know, I know, I am going to start building a 20G Tall sump pretty quick...which brings me to some questions: 1) I have been looking at protein skimmers up to around $200 and have found many of course. With limited room (as much for live rock as possible) I need to find a skimmer with as small a footprint as possible (including pump). I have been looking and have found these but do not think the dimensions include the pump, please comment: Vertex IN-80 https://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...egory=FIPSISNW Octopus OCT-NW-150 (THINK THERE IS A NEWER BETTER VERSION OF THIS????) http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Protei...duct_info.html ProClear Aquatics Motorized 150 http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquat...0740188&sr=1-3 If you use one of these or know of something better, I would appreciate hearing it. 2) Auto Top Off in a sump. My sump will be 3 chambers, 1st for main tank output...live rock...heater, 2nd for protein skimmer, 3rd for return pump. Where can i put and ATO that functions properly. I will be using a CPR CS50 overflow box as well, and am worried what will happen should that cyphen break and the ATO thinking it constantly needs more water. Also, DIY or the Gap Level-Loc ATO? 3) Do I want the sump return pump as close to the top of the water as possible? Is there a good return pump that will turn off when it overheats? 4) Is there a "REAL" master test kit out there, or is piecing one together about the only option. 5) Need to find a lot of live rock at an affordable price, my pet store is ridiculous at $7+ per pound that I can see stuff growing on it that shouldnt be there (aptasia). 6) Gonna use black Krylon Fusion paint for my intakes and returns, I believe this is ok for fish? 7) I have read that regular water changes are necessary often...my pet store says they are not necessary much at all when the tanks is finally setup. Which is true? 8) Have been looking at this RO/DI setup, please comment: 75GPD RO/DI 5 Stage PLUS http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-...duct_info.html If you know of something better, I would appreciate hearing it. Sorry for the lengthy post and questions, I wish my local pet store was better equiped to answer some of them. I am sometimes amazed they are able to keep anything alive with all the conflicting information I get from them. Thank you, Eli

12/31/2008, 11:17 AM	#2
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	http://www.purewaterclub.com/ I have not bought one yet but I know people are very happy w/ RO units from here and get as good of results as typhoons. Its not top of the line but API makes a reefmaster test kit thats nitrate phosphate, calcium and alk tests. Less accurate than salifert or elos but much less pricey. Depending on what you want to keep and your overall setup I suppose some systems can go longer w/o WC. But as a general rule, yes regular water changes are the most important maintenance one can do. as far as skimmmers I will only say I'm a bit biased for Octopus __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

12/31/2008, 08:19 PM	#3
fishyfriend4u Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: chambersburg Posts: 61	1) Can not help you with this one, I got A ASM G3 skimmer on my 75 does the trick for me. 2) My auto top off, Is on the top of my tank and feed by gravity to my return pump area. This is where the evaporation will effect you! 3) Top off you will want to go in return area so that you stay lvl. And you will not need to worry about overheating i recomed a MAG 5 for your return pump, something submersible, save you room. 4) as far as a test kit goes Salifert is what is recomemded by allot of people but personally all test kits are so far off from each other its crazy. SO think of it this way if there all off what would be the best thing to do, better to have constant conditions, changing test kits all the time with cause a fluctuation. SO pick API , Salifert, REdsea, anything u want. Just make sure u always keep everything the same. Example,a API PH test or a Salfert Cal test. Once u run out you buy another API PH test and a SAlfert Cal test. 5) EBAY!!! Good deals and u get decent rock! 6) Thats all GRavy! GOOD TO GO! 7)Depends on who you talk to! If you want to use supplements and add trace elements and all that then no you don't got to do constant water changes. A water change is don't to renew calcium magnesium and other elements in the water. Also it Helps get rid of debris and dirt. I know someone who hasn't done a water change in 3 years, tank is beautiful, but he doses a ton of stuff to keep everything in line. Also, I know people that do water changes every 2 weeks. It just depends on you! I would recommend doing water changes as my opinion! And also as a rule of thumb, LFS there retarded! 8) looks good to me! __________________ ~ Pop goes the weasel~

08/27/2011, 12:36 PM	#7
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I thought were were actually going to see 1000 questions. Looking forward to the other 991 you left off! 1) I have never been a fan of live rock in the sump. Ends up creating dead spots long term the majority of the time. Either way, tell us how much room you actually have. That is more useful info. 2) Depending on the type of overflow box, you are at pretty limited risk. Aside from recommending you add a water sensor on your floors, I am not sure I can recommend much to increas eyour level of safety here. 3) You want the return as close to the bottom as possible. You don't want to be sucking air, and if its submersible, you don't want it to be overheating (they are designed to dissipate their heat into the water surrounding them and don't do so well out of the water even for short periods of times). 4) API makes a good test kit. IMO all you need is ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH to start. If you are keeping corals, calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium might be helpful, depending on what you are keeping. I suppose you would "piece it together". You'd basically need the saltwater master and the reef master kits. 5) Local clubs are helpful here. Craigslist can also be helpful. You can end up with all of these same parasites buying through these avenues too. 6) Yes 7) Depends on what you are keeping. Also depends on whether you are dosing anything. One of the easiest ways to keep things in check is water changes. You certainly can go longer between changes once your tank is established. 8) That's a good RO unit. BRS is also a great company that will treat you right. After that, I recommend wair, water, and ice. They have almost treated me well and gone above and beyond to keep me as a customer. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

08/26/2011, 11:33 PM	#4
coralreefnc Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NC Posts: 104	try SKIMZ 121, 6" x 6.6 x 21" 53G-250G

08/26/2011, 11:34 PM	#5
coralreefnc Registered Member. Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NC Posts: 104	or try SWC 150 BMK

08/27/2011, 12:46 PM	#8
fender4string Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 1,550	Nix the live rock in the sump. Instead set up a portion to be used for macro algae (specifically chaetomorpha, or chaeto for short). All you need is a CF spotlight bulb and some flow and it'll grow well enough. In my opinion a refugium with macro algae is a necessity. Also, I'm sorry to derail but jenglish, I love your avatar probably more than I should.