Phosphate removal help

MMM33732 · 12/31/2008, 07:09 PM

So I've had a slight phosphate problem for a long time now. Damn hair algae loves it. I've tried GFO as well as a fuge. The main problem with the fuge has always been cyno and foam start to build up at the surface and stop light from getting though which in turn kills the top layer of cheato/chalurpa. I've tried adding more flow to the fuge with no major success. My skimmer has been down for a little while now which of course is adding to the issue. Now my question is do you feel I'd be better off just scrapping the fuge and upping the amount of GFO or try again (for the 4th time) at the fuge? Any other thoughts?

rgrobe · 12/31/2008, 07:34 PM

When you say high, what kind of readings are you getting. You might want to start by identifying the source. Are you using RODI water or tap for your topoff, what is your bioload, feeding intervals, etc. I have a fuge with chaeto, a skimmer and i run a TLF Phosban reactor as well as carbon. I am able to maintain a low level of phosphates sometimes non-detectable with a kit. What were your parameters on you most recent tests?

SaltyDr · 12/31/2008, 09:24 PM

Ditto - I do both. I've been adding Vodka to boot. Tank has never looked better.

iamwrasseman · 12/31/2008, 09:43 PM

what does the vodka do ?how do you know proper dosage ? i have haerd that you need nitrates as well to act as fuel for tha vodka . i have only got bits and pieces of this puzzle how does it actually work and what does it do ? inquiring minds want to know

MMM33732 · 01/01/2009, 12:04 PM

iamwrasseman- vodka adds a carbon source for the anaerobic bacteria to basically fuel and kick start them into more nitrate reduction.

I guess I should have mentioned a little more...
Yes I do use RODI water only for everything and always have.
The phosphate level isn't high, but its enough to let some hair algae grow. Test kit shows maybe .25 but you know those aren't worth a crap. Nitrates are 0 and pretty much always have been. I run a coil denitrator into a sulfur denitrator plus a small deep sand bed in my fuge to take care or that. So phosphates really aren't per say high, but they are enough to let some hair algae grow. The source would prob be food. I've cut back over time to where I almost feel I underfeed them, but regardless of how much is fed, its still phosphates being added that aren't being removed.

So back to my original question. Since the fuge constantly has issues do you think I would be better upping the amount of GFO I use and not worrying about the fuge at all? (I haven't changed my GFO in a little while since I've been running it for over a year now with no results) I feel I may just not have enough.

THolleyH46 · 01/01/2009, 01:09 PM

My Yellow Tang thinks hair algae is like the Chinese all-you-can-eat buffet! If it grows, its gone instantly.

m8j4c · 01/01/2009, 01:21 PM

+1 to yellow tangs and my lawnmower blenny keeping all the algae in check..
Keep going with the fuge and keep scraping the cyano and whatever else is causing your chaeto from getting light.

MMM33732 · 01/01/2009, 01:40 PM

Must be nice. My tang doesn't tough the stuff. Nor did my lawnmower blenny or either or my sea hares.

iamwrasseman · 01/01/2009, 02:01 PM

yup my tangs one yellow and one purple have only eaten meat as far as i have seen ! lawnmower blenny must have a bull blade cause he dont do grass either . maybe i am feeding them something that is to tasty , i mean its just PE MYDSIS shrimp how good can it taste ?

mc-cro · 01/01/2009, 03:58 PM

I have had severe cyano outbreaks in my fuge in the past. IME the best thing you can do is first, get that skimmer working. Once you get the skimmer working, turn off the lights to the fuge for like a week or so. It wont hurt the cheato, it will be just fine with no light for a long, long time. Be sure and suck out all the cyano you can find before turning out the lights. Might as well also run carbon, and a filter sock if you got one. not mandatory, but it wont hurt. As for the GFO, you can run it while the lights are out, but I would suspect that during the lights out you will saturate it and should put new GFO in when you turn the lights back on.

During lights out, you should see the skimmer pulling some really dark skimmate. Keep an eye on the display, you dont want the cyano to start taking root in there becuase that is where the light is. You may want to do a couple of days of no light on the display as well, but only 2-3 days. reduce the photoperiod too if you think the cyano is wanting to establish itself there.

Keep an eye on the fuge, it may take 2-3 cycles of lights out to completely rid the fuge of it.

MMM33732 · 01/01/2009, 09:59 PM

Sounds like pretty good sound advise. I actually just made a new skimmer a few hours ago which is stating to work pretty good already. All overflow water is plumbed into it. I'll see how much skimmate it pulls over the next few days and reevaluate how things are. At that point, I'll prob switch out the GFO one more time after I'm sure the skimmer pulled the bulk of the organics out. I may run some carbon at that time as well. I don't think it would be a good idea to go lightless in the fuge since its actually all chalurpa this time. But hopefully having a working skimmer again will do a world of difference over the next few days/weeks.

brian.julia07 · 01/01/2009, 10:08 PM

i have a huge hair algae break out and im working on my phosphate prob as well but I bought some mexican turbo snails that are about and inch to 2 inches and they are doing wonders i cant believe how much hair algae they are sucking down. I highly recommend those guys good luck

12/31/2008, 07:09 PM	#1
MMM33732 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 690	Phosphate removal help So I've had a slight phosphate problem for a long time now. Damn hair algae loves it. I've tried GFO as well as a fuge. The main problem with the fuge has always been cyno and foam start to build up at the surface and stop light from getting though which in turn kills the top layer of cheato/chalurpa. I've tried adding more flow to the fuge with no major success. My skimmer has been down for a little while now which of course is adding to the issue. Now my question is do you feel I'd be better off just scrapping the fuge and upping the amount of GFO or try again (for the 4th time) at the fuge? Any other thoughts?

12/31/2008, 09:43 PM	#4
iamwrasseman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: syracuse Posts: 7,003	what does the vodka do ?how do you know proper dosage ? i have haerd that you need nitrates as well to act as fuel for tha vodka . i have only got bits and pieces of this puzzle how does it actually work and what does it do ? inquiring minds want to know __________________ This hobby certainly can put you in some weird positions ! Dave Current Tank Info: 40 freshwater,25saltwater 2000 gallons ,enough tanks for an army ?

01/01/2009, 01:09 PM	#6
THolleyH46 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 210	My Yellow Tang thinks hair algae is like the Chinese all-you-can-eat buffet! If it grows, its gone instantly. __________________ TOM "No, I didn't spill any water on the floor near any electrical cords!" Current Tank Info: 120 Tall reef tank

01/01/2009, 02:01 PM	#9
iamwrasseman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: syracuse Posts: 7,003	yup my tangs one yellow and one purple have only eaten meat as far as i have seen ! lawnmower blenny must have a bull blade cause he dont do grass either . maybe i am feeding them something that is to tasty , i mean its just PE MYDSIS shrimp how good can it taste ? __________________ This hobby certainly can put you in some weird positions ! Dave Current Tank Info: 40 freshwater,25saltwater 2000 gallons ,enough tanks for an army ?

01/01/2009, 03:58 PM	#10
mc-cro (macro) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 2,238	I have had severe cyano outbreaks in my fuge in the past. IME the best thing you can do is first, get that skimmer working. Once you get the skimmer working, turn off the lights to the fuge for like a week or so. It wont hurt the cheato, it will be just fine with no light for a long, long time. Be sure and suck out all the cyano you can find before turning out the lights. Might as well also run carbon, and a filter sock if you got one. not mandatory, but it wont hurt. As for the GFO, you can run it while the lights are out, but I would suspect that during the lights out you will saturate it and should put new GFO in when you turn the lights back on. During lights out, you should see the skimmer pulling some really dark skimmate. Keep an eye on the display, you dont want the cyano to start taking root in there becuase that is where the light is. You may want to do a couple of days of no light on the display as well, but only 2-3 days. reduce the photoperiod too if you think the cyano is wanting to establish itself there. Keep an eye on the fuge, it may take 2-3 cycles of lights out to completely rid the fuge of it. __________________ Time is the most valuable thing you have... spend it wisely Current Tank Info: 60x26x24 AGE 3 sided starphire

12/31/2008, 07:34 PM	#2
rgrobe Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Diego area Posts: 416	When you say high, what kind of readings are you getting. You might want to start by identifying the source. Are you using RODI water or tap for your topoff, what is your bioload, feeding intervals, etc. I have a fuge with chaeto, a skimmer and i run a TLF Phosban reactor as well as carbon. I am able to maintain a low level of phosphates sometimes non-detectable with a kit. What were your parameters on you most recent tests?

12/31/2008, 09:24 PM	#3
SaltyDr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 1,191	Ditto - I do both. I've been adding Vodka to boot. Tank has never looked better.

01/01/2009, 12:04 PM	#5
MMM33732 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 690	iamwrasseman- vodka adds a carbon source for the anaerobic bacteria to basically fuel and kick start them into more nitrate reduction. I guess I should have mentioned a little more... Yes I do use RODI water only for everything and always have. The phosphate level isn't high, but its enough to let some hair algae grow. Test kit shows maybe .25 but you know those aren't worth a crap. Nitrates are 0 and pretty much always have been. I run a coil denitrator into a sulfur denitrator plus a small deep sand bed in my fuge to take care or that. So phosphates really aren't per say high, but they are enough to let some hair algae grow. The source would prob be food. I've cut back over time to where I almost feel I underfeed them, but regardless of how much is fed, its still phosphates being added that aren't being removed. So back to my original question. Since the fuge constantly has issues do you think I would be better upping the amount of GFO I use and not worrying about the fuge at all? (I haven't changed my GFO in a little while since I've been running it for over a year now with no results) I feel I may just not have enough.

01/01/2009, 01:21 PM	#7
m8j4c Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Livermore, Ca. Posts: 69	+1 to yellow tangs and my lawnmower blenny keeping all the algae in check.. Keep going with the fuge and keep scraping the cyano and whatever else is causing your chaeto from getting light.

01/01/2009, 01:40 PM	#8
MMM33732 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 690	Must be nice. My tang doesn't tough the stuff. Nor did my lawnmower blenny or either or my sea hares.

01/01/2009, 09:59 PM	#11
MMM33732 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 690	Sounds like pretty good sound advise. I actually just made a new skimmer a few hours ago which is stating to work pretty good already. All overflow water is plumbed into it. I'll see how much skimmate it pulls over the next few days and reevaluate how things are. At that point, I'll prob switch out the GFO one more time after I'm sure the skimmer pulled the bulk of the organics out. I may run some carbon at that time as well. I don't think it would be a good idea to go lightless in the fuge since its actually all chalurpa this time. But hopefully having a working skimmer again will do a world of difference over the next few days/weeks.

01/01/2009, 10:08 PM	#12
brian.julia07 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 127	i have a huge hair algae break out and im working on my phosphate prob as well but I bought some mexican turbo snails that are about and inch to 2 inches and they are doing wonders i cant believe how much hair algae they are sucking down. I highly recommend those guys good luck