ich and QT water quality question

r0bin · 01/19/2009, 03:38 PM

This weekend fish I have had for about 6 months (all QT'd) came down with ich. I am not sure why all of the sudden and at this point I guess it doesn't matter. Even though I QT'd all of them apparently somebody had a dormant infection.

I quickly set up a 20 gal Hosp. tank, barebottom, HOB filter empty and powerhead. The fish are a royal gramma, lemonpeel angel, and clown. I am using Copper powder to treat. All "visible" spots are gone already in less than 8 hours. I guess this is a good sign, now on too the invisible spots.

2 questions - 2 of the fish are showing signs of bacterial infection due to the ich? Do I address this also or will they heal now since the ich is being irradicated.

The other question is is it safe to put some ammonia lock in the tank to prevent ammonia from getting high. I am not home a lot and would like a little insurance so to speak. Would the ammonia lock affect the copper powder? Thanks!

MotherFish · 01/19/2009, 05:55 PM

Personally, I would start to treat the bacterial infections first with a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Maracyn Plus on days 1, 3 and 5, as it's usually the secondary infection, not the Ich, that ends up being fatal.

During that time I would also start a hyposalinty treatment as opposed to copper.
Do a 20% water change each day using FW to gradually lower the salinity.
Add the Maracyn Plus after the water change on days 1 and 3.
After the 4th day the salinity should be about 1.010sg.
Adjust down to exactly 1.009sg using a refractometer.

Keep at 1.009sg for 6-8 weeks and then slowly raise the salinity back to normal over the course of a week.

With hyposalinity you can use Amquel or ammonia lock, along with regular water changes during the first few weeks until the biological filtration catches up.
I would not advise using Amquel or ammonia lock with copper.
I am not certain about ammonia lock, but Amquel cannot be used with chelated copper or cuprimine as it will release toxic copper.

r0bin · 01/19/2009, 08:12 PM

Thats helpful but as I said I am already treating with copper powder.

Thanks for the tip about amquel and it releasing toxic copper.

MotherFish · 01/19/2009, 08:27 PM

How are you testing your copper levels?
Copper (like hypo) has a very narrow effective range and should be tested twice a day with a fresh test kit.
Old testers are notoriously unreliable.
If the test kit is more than a year old I would toss it and buy a new one just to be confident of the results.

There is an interesting read over in the Seachem forum regarding Cuprimine and Amquel Plus.
It may or may not have some information that might be useful to you.

01/19/2009, 03:38 PM	#1
r0bin Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 1,132	ich and QT water quality question This weekend fish I have had for about 6 months (all QT'd) came down with ich. I am not sure why all of the sudden and at this point I guess it doesn't matter. Even though I QT'd all of them apparently somebody had a dormant infection. I quickly set up a 20 gal Hosp. tank, barebottom, HOB filter empty and powerhead. The fish are a royal gramma, lemonpeel angel, and clown. I am using Copper powder to treat. All "visible" spots are gone already in less than 8 hours. I guess this is a good sign, now on too the invisible spots. 2 questions - 2 of the fish are showing signs of bacterial infection due to the ich? Do I address this also or will they heal now since the ich is being irradicated. The other question is is it safe to put some ammonia lock in the tank to prevent ammonia from getting high. I am not home a lot and would like a little insurance so to speak. Would the ammonia lock affect the copper powder? Thanks! __________________ 125 gal. sumpless reef, Orange Ocellaris Clown, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Starry Blennie, Deltec MCE300, Kessil Lighting

01/19/2009, 08:12 PM	#3
r0bin Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 1,132	Thats helpful but as I said I am already treating with copper powder. Thanks for the tip about amquel and it releasing toxic copper. __________________ 125 gal. sumpless reef, Orange Ocellaris Clown, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Starry Blennie, Deltec MCE300, Kessil Lighting

01/19/2009, 05:55 PM	#2
MotherFish Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 208	Personally, I would start to treat the bacterial infections first with a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Maracyn Plus on days 1, 3 and 5, as it's usually the secondary infection, not the Ich, that ends up being fatal. During that time I would also start a hyposalinty treatment as opposed to copper. Do a 20% water change each day using FW to gradually lower the salinity. Add the Maracyn Plus after the water change on days 1 and 3. After the 4th day the salinity should be about 1.010sg. Adjust down to exactly 1.009sg using a refractometer. Keep at 1.009sg for 6-8 weeks and then slowly raise the salinity back to normal over the course of a week. With hyposalinity you can use Amquel or ammonia lock, along with regular water changes during the first few weeks until the biological filtration catches up. I would not advise using Amquel or ammonia lock with copper. I am not certain about ammonia lock, but Amquel cannot be used with chelated copper or cuprimine as it will release toxic copper.

01/19/2009, 08:27 PM	#4
MotherFish Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 208	How are you testing your copper levels? Copper (like hypo) has a very narrow effective range and should be tested twice a day with a fresh test kit. Old testers are notoriously unreliable. If the test kit is more than a year old I would toss it and buy a new one just to be confident of the results. There is an interesting read over in the Seachem forum regarding Cuprimine and Amquel Plus. It may or may not have some information that might be useful to you.