New to Saltwater Tanks

[wboyden]

Ok, after a post in a few forums and feedback from those and reading a vast amount of threads. This will be my first setup and trying to get some feedback/opinions and advice on how to proceed.

I have decided to post some thoughts and plans on what I was thinking for my first tank.

I have been think, planning, and researching for months before even getting this far, from what I have seen more recently and had pointed out that even the first cylce could be weeks if not months before it is stable enough and then could be as much as a year for the addition of some corals.

So I was thinking while I am not looking at "rushing" into things but I am thinking that I should be starting the display tank to start cycling.


My current outlook is to have a 20 Gallon display tank, I am looking to have live sand and rock as well as a couple fish. with the addition of a 10-20 gallon sump. Not sure how much room I have in the stand or available for tanks. Only planning right now to use the tanks I am currently storing.

Now I know that moving one tank to another tank will disturb what is there and probably at least cause some sort of mini-cycle to take place so what I proposing is to setup the display tank then add in the additional tanks as the tank matures figuring that if a 10 gal is used as a sump being at approx. 80-90 percent full it would effectivly adding 8-9 gallons of water to the capacity. Would that work out as working as a water change?

While I do know that just topping off a tank does not equal a water change.
Now, from what I have been reading what seems the normal is to drill the tanks for overflow and using bulkheads and pvc to connect everything.

I have never drilled a tank before so this would be a new one on me, If this is the case then I should drill the tank attach the bulkhead in advance and then plug or cap it so that it can be removed at a later time for the expansion.

Now if that is the case after I have the water at the right specs, temp, salt, ph ex.. then what is used to cycle the tank? Live rock and sand one or the other? I understand that fish should not be added until much later and corals much later then that.

From what I have read, the tank should have 1-2 pounds of live rock and half -1 pound of live sand per gallon of capacity so using the 20 gal tank that would be 20-40 pounds of rock and 10-20 pounds of sand but should I cycle the tank with that? should it be a different combo?

Also capacity, is total water volume correct, so a 20 gallon tank with 20 gal sump is effectivly 40 gallons so the needs of the expansion would be the same as the display so Should I plan on the higher amounts which will equal the lower amounts after the expansion?

Or would it just be better to hookup what the setup will be and cycle the full volume?

My thinking on starting with the smaller volume is that it would take less of an amount to cycle the tank and then could cycle more live rock seperatly (in a non connected container)at a later point and then add the additional rock for the additional amount of gallons that would be added with the expansion

I was also told that I should look into getting argonite? for substrate and then a cup of live sand to seed it with is this more along the lines of the way to go or should/would I be better off just buying what was needed from the start.

I know this is getting long winded.. So I'll end it with one more then and see how it goes.

I am also interested to get in contact with email/posts/pms what have you those that might be in the western Ma area possibly around springfield to discuss tanks, water, Places to get supplies and livestock and anyone that has toddlers that take them to meetings While I know all kids are different but some generals can be made like expect them to get board and cranky after about an hour.. be sure to bring coloring books or what have you

Thank you all in advance for taking the time to read, respond or even look at this post.

[IslandCrow]

OK, a lot of questions. In the future, I'd strongly recommend breaking that into a few posts, but I'll do my best to answer what I can for you.

Now I know that moving one tank to another tank will disturb what is there and probably at least cause some sort of mini-cycle to take place so what I proposing is to setup the display tank then add in the additional tanks as the tank matures figuring that if a 10 gal is used as a sump being at approx. 80-90 percent full it would effectivly adding 8-9 gallons of water to the capacity. Would that work out as working as a water change?

You may or may not get a mini cycle when tranferring the contents of one tank to another. I wouldn't worry about that too much. As far as adding a sump, you are correct that adding another 8-9 gallons to the existing system would serve the same purpose as a water change. Obviously, you'll need to keep up your normal water change schedule after that.

Now, from what I have been reading what seems the normal is to drill the tanks for overflow and using bulkheads and pvc to connect everything.

I have never drilled a tank before so this would be a new one on me, If this is the case then I should drill the tank attach the bulkhead in advance and then plug or cap it so that it can be removed at a later time for the expansion.

Yes, either rigid or flexible (also called spaflex) PVC is generally used to plumb the display tank to the sump. If you don't feel comfortable drilling your own tank, fish stores will sometimes drill it for you. Preferrably, you'd want to set up both the display tank and the sump right from the start, but if you can't do that, I think drilling the tank now and plugging up the holes for later is a good idea. You're not going to be able to drill the tank once everything's up and running.

Here's a great place to get some more info on setting up a sump: http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html. That particular website has a wealth of information, so any time you spend exploring it is time well spent.

Now if that is the case after I have the water at the right specs, temp, salt, ph ex.. then what is used to cycle the tank? Live rock and sand one or the other? I understand that fish should not be added until much later and corals much later then that.

Your live rock is all you need to cycle the tank. If you have little to no live rock and only base (dry) rock, then the technique of adding a cocktail shrimp to decompose and provide an ammonia source for the bacteria is acceptable.

My thinking on starting with the smaller volume is that it would take less of an amount to cycle the tank and then could cycle more live rock seperatly (in a non connected container)at a later point and then add the additional rock for the additional amount of gallons that would be added with the expansion

Hopefully I'll answer your other related questions with just this. If possible, you want to add all your rock, and you definitely want to add all your sand right from the start. Reducing your water volume will not help you. We say 1-2 lbs of rock per gallon, but we should really be equating pounds of rock to bioload (it's just not as practical to do so). What I mean by that is, if I only had one fish in a 100 gallon tank, then 20 pounds of live rock would be plenty, because that's all I would need to handle the bioload of that one fish. That rock per gallon rule is a guide that's assuming a fully stocked tank. Adding more water is never a bad thing.

I was also told that I should look into getting argonite? for substrate and then a cup of live sand to seed it with is this more along the lines of the way to go or should/would I be better off just buying what was needed from the start.

Aragonite sand is what's usually used in a reef tank, and the safest choice. Stay away from the bagged "live" sand. Adding a cup of live sand from an established tank is a good way to go, but even if you don't do that, your live rock will effectively seed your sand and make it live.

[smleee]

Originally posted by IslandCrow
Stay away from the bagged "live" sand.

Purely from a cost standpoint or other reason?

[IslandCrow]

Cost is a big part of it. I just don't feel you're getting what you're paying for. Live sand is about more than just the bacteria, which is about all that is going to potentially survive in a bunch of sand that's been sealed in an airtight bag, transported halfway across the country (or further) and sat on a shelf for who knows how long. In other words, there's probably not very much that's still alive in that "live" sand.