Innovation in Reef Technology

luisagos · 03/01/2009, 02:37 PM

Anyone that has worked with PLC, Control Software and Monitoring Systems understand you can only control so much.

You must know whats going on in the real environment. What is actuality happening.

You need real data, before a computer can make that decision.

When ever I am looking for something that I need.
I try to learn, ask and demand things that will fit my needs. I also find out fairly quick if they want me as a customer.

I been searching for a new controller and I have been making my rounds at the different sites. I couldn't see what I wanted so I started asking Questions.

GHL Team was more then willing to answer my questions, to my surprise they know the technology.

I wanted more information coming to my controller, so I asked for 0-10v input card. Having a very logical debate on the card I wanted. They told me in a nice way they will think about it.

Well, when a girl tells you she will think about it, it means NO, lol.
To my surprise today, just going my rounds on the web i see that GHL Team had announce several new products.

They have dimmable socket and the 0-10v analog input card.

You all may be asking, why is this so a Innovation in Reef Technology?

I will tell you now.

You can attach current sensors to your motor, you can see when a pump is going to fail or needs cleaning before you have the problem with data logging it.

You also will have kilowatt meter which could tell you how much Electricity your are using.
You could also let the user input their current rates in the area they live in, so they know how much it cost to run that device.

You could also set limits on your current usages for that socket for protection.
You can attach a flow meter, and again, data logging will tell you if your pump stop working or the impeller is being worn down.
You can see your GPM rates with a flow meter.

Data log your lux meter and Quantum Meter. Just buying a Quantum Meter sensor ( might need a sight modification, i need to research it more).
You can see how much par you are using and losing with the data your logging.

I could spend all day here telling you what you can do with 0-10v analog card.
I am very exited with this product, and see this as advance in Reef technology.
They listened.
From that I place my order for Profilux Plus II ex. I will have more reviews once i get the products.

LunarDDS · 03/01/2009, 03:20 PM

That is actually pretty exciting. Too bad you are probably the only one who can figure out how to do it. LOLZ

luisagos · 03/01/2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LunarDDS
That is actually pretty exciting. Too bad you are probably the only one who can figure out how to do it. LOLZ

No no, its very easy to do. i give you one example.

When dealing with 0-10v analog cards. You need to assign values to the voltage lower and upper limits.
I am going to discuss how you would connect a Quantum Meter sensor to this input card.

Profilux will have these windows for you to enter.

0 voltage lower limit, enter value.
Most all equipment start at 0, so for this example, the answer will be 0 par.

Next box will be
10 voltage upper limit, enter value.
This will be different for any equipment, you see whats the highest range for that device is going to be. For our example, its going to be 2000par.

Now Profilux software will know how to read that sensor, it knows its lower and upper limits. Once it know those two things, it will calculate everything in between, because a 0-10 v analog card is linear in nature.

Keep in mind the Quantum Meter sensor will not operate at 0-10v, you need amplify the signal. Thats so easy and it can be made very cheap.

Once Profilux software has the information, you can set alarms or what ever you desire to do with the information.

ssamick · 03/01/2009, 04:16 PM

What? Like he said. Sounds very cool though.

luisagos · 03/02/2009, 12:16 PM

I give a better example.

You would need to buy a flow sensor like these.
Flow meter pic
http://www.gemssensors.com/content.aspx?id=1130

Flow meter part
http://www.gemssensors.com/CartAdd.a...tNumber=155420

24v PS
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=1277

Thats it, just hook it up to the analog input.
And set the the upper and lower limits in the Profilux window.
In this case the upper limit is around 3600 GPH and lower is around 1 GPH.

That all what is needed to add a flow meter to Profilux with a input card.

luisagos · 03/02/2009, 07:22 PM

This how you would connect a Current Sensor to the input card.

You get something like this, I believe this to be on the expensive side, but you get the idea what they look like and how they perform.

http://web3.automationdirect.com/adc...nt_Transducers

These sensors are 0-10 v output.

0v = 0 amps
10v = 10 amps

You slide one side of the pump wire through the hole of this device.
Note: You must only run one wire, if you run both you will cancel the readout, you get 0 amps.

When a pump first turn on. You see the amp spike like 50%, its different for each motor.
Once the motor is running at its speed, the current will be lower and stay constant.
Now this is the cool, part. Over time, you will see the current increase. You will be data logging the amps.

The current will start to rise over time, this is normal. There will be a point where the pump will start to fail, you will see the changes over time increase more now. This would be a good time, to see whats going wrong.
Note: New motors current might decrease over time, because it being breaking in, bearings being tight.

If a pump has a very small leak and water is getting inside the motor, you might see a small spike, telling you something is wrong, that something you will not catch if you wasn't data logging the current.
Also will know, when the impeller is getting dirty, because the current will be also increasing over time.
Remember the key thing is the data logging of the current.

Taking a small snapshot of current is useless, but over a span, it is priceless.

You could also calculate your kilowatt usages and by entering your local rates, you know how much your spending to run those MH light.
Tricky part of the kilowatt meter, you will need to know your local voltage. You can measure it and manual it enter it in the software.
Watts=Voltage x Amps
Or buy a voltage sensor so you can be 100% right on.

You will only need 1 voltage sensor, but need 1 current sensor for each device you want to monitor at the same time.

Last thing you could use the current sensor is set up limits.
If you know a pump should only run 1 amp, set the limit to 2 amps and sound alarm, or shut it off, or Even turn on a second pump.

The possibilities are endless.

DaveMorris · 03/03/2009, 03:01 AM

That sounds like a second hobby all by itself. Please keep the updates coming once you get the parts together with the controller. It sounds very interesting. You may even be able to come up with something that would be the inspiration for another module that the controller manufacturers can put out for their systems. Kind of like a "bread board" for controllers.

LunarDDS · 03/03/2009, 09:38 AM

Sounds to me like he just needs to build these add ons and sell them. They would be generic 0-10v output sensors to collect the data. The profilux is the logging device.

Heinz · 03/03/2009, 09:55 AM

i had to read it a few times, i gave up at first, but now i think i get it,

keep the updates coming, i like it

dkirchoff · 03/03/2009, 10:07 AM

you got my brain going 12v outta 10v par....lol nice write up though

RGibson · 03/03/2009, 10:09 AM

luisagos were did you buy the GHL control?

luisagos · 03/03/2009, 10:20 AM

I got my from Reef Perfection in Canada.
Right now you get $1.29 CAD for $1 USA, its about 27% discount including exchange fees. Free shipping.

But you can get them at , USA dealer.

cherrycorals

A lot of good deals now with them.

jamesdawson · 03/03/2009, 02:54 PM

Very cool.

Would love to have a flowmeter for return pump monitorable by the controller.

The only problem I see is that this particular flowmeter doesn't appear to have any electric connection so I'm not sure how the 1-10v analog card would be able to connect to it and read it?

James

Chrisrush · 03/03/2009, 03:51 PM

Would there be any chance of controlling a pumps RPM via these analog cards or something similar? Similar to how a VFD works.

luisagos · 03/03/2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jamesdawson
Very cool.

Would love to have a flowmeter for return pump monitorable by the controller.

The only problem I see is that this particular flowmeter doesn't appear to have any electric connection so I'm not sure how the 1-10v analog card would be able to connect to it and read it?

James

This meter does have a 0-10 v signal is based how fast the paddle wheel moves.

If you where to take this flow meter apart, its very easy to clean.
Look at the front glass, that comes off by unscrewing a knob looking device.
The paddle wheel comes off with the glass plate and separates off the shaft.
If you where to examine the paddle, you would see little magnets attach inside the paddles sealed.
Inside the unit there is a device that counts every time, the paddle wheels passes it by.
The device is call a hall effect sensor, it senses magnet fields passing through its field.

The electronics inside the seal box will count each time, the paddle wheel passes that hall effect sensor.
If the sensor detects the sensor pass the field 5 time in 1 second it will convert that into a voltage value, let say 1 volt.

Now If the sensor detects the sensor pass the field 50 times in 1 second it will convert that into a voltage value, let say 10 volt.

With the input card from Profilux, the controller will know that 1 volt is = 360 gpm and 10 volt is 3600 gpm.

Note: The numbers i use, was for example only and not needed to hook up this meter to Profilux, It was just for teaching purposes.

You would need to have buy, the flow meter, Power Supply and the input card to have flow meter part of your Profilux system.

luisagos · 03/03/2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chrisrush
Would there be any chance of controlling a pumps RPM via these analog cards or something similar? Similar to how a VFD works.

I would just buy something like this for a little over $150 VFD
I would use the output card (0-10v) to control the VFD and use the input to read the actual speed.

I am not sure why would you need a VFD?
Normally they are use to maintain a certain pressure, in a aquarium environment i wouldn't see how the loading would change at all?
Maybe I am missing something.

BTW, VFD are very cool and fun to play with.

Chrisrush · 03/03/2009, 07:11 PM

I'll have to find the post, but there are a couple of people here using them to ramp up/down the RPM for return pumps, etc. Surge water in/out of the display tank.

luisagos · 03/03/2009, 07:34 PM

Profilux has a new product coming out, its a dimmable socket.

You should be able to ramp the speed (AC voltage) up and down within the program.

I am not sure how the programming is going to be, but something like this should be good.

Ramp to full voltage within a time frame <<< user enter value in seconds.
Starting point %
Ending point %
How many cycle till shut off.
As you see, you can go nuts with this stuff, lol.

VFD are design to control a motor to run at a certain speed with a variable load.

Example, a pump motor, set at 66 psi. As more people are taking a bath, the VFD will maintain the 66 psi by increasing the motor speed. Once everyone stop bathing, the VFD will see maintaining the 66 psi needs less motor speed.

jamesdawson · 03/04/2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by luisagos
This meter does have a 0-10 v signal is based how fast the paddle wheel moves.

If you where to take this flow meter apart, its very easy to clean.
Look at the front glass, that comes off by unscrewing a knob looking device.
The paddle wheel comes off with the glass plate and separates off the shaft.
If you where to examine the paddle, you would see little magnets attach inside the paddles sealed.
Inside the unit there is a device that counts every time, the paddle wheels passes it by.
The device is call a hall effect sensor, it senses magnet fields passing through its field.

The electronics inside the seal box will count each time, the paddle wheel passes that hall effect sensor.
If the sensor detects the sensor pass the field 5 time in 1 second it will convert that into a voltage value, let say 1 volt.

Now If the sensor detects the sensor pass the field 50 times in 1 second it will convert that into a voltage value, let say 10 volt.

With the input card from Profilux, the controller will know that 1 volt is = 360 gpm and 10 volt is 3600 gpm.

Note: The numbers i use, was for example only and not needed to hook up this meter to Profilux, It was just for teaching purposes.

You would need to have buy, the flow meter, Power Supply and the input card to have flow meter part of your Profilux system.

Thanks for explaining this Luis, can't wait!

James

BeanAnimal · 03/04/2009, 06:15 PM

My DIY Atmega128 based controller id based on 0-10v I/O since its inception more than several years ago

The main purpose was to control sunrise/sunset via dimmable T5 ballasts. (VHO at the time of design). I also have the ability to monitor RMS voltage/current on 24 ouputs (but do not use it, as I could really care less anymore).

DaveMorris · 03/04/2009, 11:29 PM

Controlling motor speed requires much more than just adjusting the voltage up and down. If you do that to some motors they will burn out. True variable motor controllers preserve the integrity of the sine wave and that keeps the motor happy. I looked into this for my closed loop and the good folks that make the Baldor motors strongly suggested not varying the supply voltage.

BeanAnimal · 03/05/2009, 07:03 AM

Dave,

You would use the 0-10V output of the controller to operate a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The VFD is what provides the steady sinewave that varies in freuquency

luisagos · 03/05/2009, 07:58 AM

This is the Spec for the new Outlets.

The dimmable powerbar provides 2 socket which can be dimmed using the 1-10V-interface. The phase angle modulation allows the connection of light bulbs and many motors.

Possible applications:
- dimming of light bulbs, e.g. for terrariums
- controlling of current pumps

Technical data:
- 4A per socket -> approx. 900W at 230V resp. 450W at 115V
- similar to a powerbar STDL4, just with only 2 sockets

Also specs for the
flow meter

Just for reference.

Chrisrush · 03/05/2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Dave,

You would use the 0-10V output of the controller to operate a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The VFD is what provides the steady sinewave that varies in freuquency

That is what I was referring too. Thanks Bean.

luisagos · 03/10/2009, 06:35 PM

Small update:

I finally got my Profilux Plus ex controller today.
Including the LAN card, ORP, PH and Conductivity Probes.

Going to spend a couple of days playing with it.

Also got the Quantum Meter Sensor ordered. I don't have the new input card yet, wont be out till may.
I promise its going to be a breeze to connect the Quantum Sensor to the Profilux controller. I have been in contact with a Apogee Instruments Engineer and got all the information needed to data log with the sensor.
Note:
You can also use it as a stand alone PAR Meter using the controller as the display.

I am still searching the right flow-meter, I am going to need start a thread about the npt size requirements for the flow meter.

The current and voltage sensors i am still researching, i can go 1000 ways with these. They may also be come install with the future Profilux Power bars, still waiting for more information on that.
If not i can post a easy DIY, with a BOM and place to buy the parts.

Profilux are busy with tons of new products , going to be fun when some of these things fall in play.

03/01/2009, 02:37 PM	#1
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	Innovation in Reef Technology Anyone that has worked with PLC, Control Software and Monitoring Systems understand you can only control so much. You must know whats going on in the real environment. What is actuality happening. You need real data, before a computer can make that decision. When ever I am looking for something that I need. I try to learn, ask and demand things that will fit my needs. I also find out fairly quick if they want me as a customer. I been searching for a new controller and I have been making my rounds at the different sites. I couldn't see what I wanted so I started asking Questions. GHL Team was more then willing to answer my questions, to my surprise they know the technology. I wanted more information coming to my controller, so I asked for 0-10v input card. Having a very logical debate on the card I wanted. They told me in a nice way they will think about it. Well, when a girl tells you she will think about it, it means NO, lol. To my surprise today, just going my rounds on the web i see that GHL Team had announce several new products. They have dimmable socket and the 0-10v analog input card. You all may be asking, why is this so a Innovation in Reef Technology? I will tell you now. You can attach current sensors to your motor, you can see when a pump is going to fail or needs cleaning before you have the problem with data logging it. You also will have kilowatt meter which could tell you how much Electricity your are using. You could also let the user input their current rates in the area they live in, so they know how much it cost to run that device. You could also set limits on your current usages for that socket for protection. You can attach a flow meter, and again, data logging will tell you if your pump stop working or the impeller is being worn down. You can see your GPM rates with a flow meter. Data log your lux meter and Quantum Meter. Just buying a Quantum Meter sensor ( might need a sight modification, i need to research it more). You can see how much par you are using and losing with the data your logging. I could spend all day here telling you what you can do with 0-10v analog card. I am very exited with this product, and see this as advance in Reef technology. They listened. From that I place my order for Profilux Plus II ex. I will have more reviews once i get the products.

03/03/2009, 03:01 AM	#7
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	That sounds like a second hobby all by itself. Please keep the updates coming once you get the parts together with the controller. It sounds very interesting. You may even be able to come up with something that would be the inspiration for another module that the controller manufacturers can put out for their systems. Kind of like a "bread board" for controllers. __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

03/03/2009, 10:09 AM	#11
RGibson RGibson Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,377	luisagos were did you buy the GHL control? __________________ RGibson

03/03/2009, 02:54 PM	#13
jamesdawson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I AM THE SEA Posts: 1,303	Very cool. Would love to have a flowmeter for return pump monitorable by the controller. The only problem I see is that this particular flowmeter doesn't appear to have any electric connection so I'm not sure how the 1-10v analog card would be able to connect to it and read it? James __________________ Old Reefers Never Die, they just...join the crew! Current Tank Info: I'm expanding my reach

03/03/2009, 03:51 PM	#14
Chrisrush Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,754	Would there be any chance of controlling a pumps RPM via these analog cards or something similar? Similar to how a VFD works. __________________ Thanks, Chris Current Tank Info: 2015 Reef Savvy Dream Tank Winner

03/01/2009, 03:20 PM	#2
LunarDDS Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 334	That is actually pretty exciting. Too bad you are probably the only one who can figure out how to do it. LOLZ

03/01/2009, 04:16 PM	#4
ssamick Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Fort Wayne, IN. Posts: 295	What? Like he said. Sounds very cool though.

03/02/2009, 12:16 PM	#5
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	I give a better example. You would need to buy a flow sensor like these. Flow meter pic http://www.gemssensors.com/content.aspx?id=1130 Flow meter part http://www.gemssensors.com/CartAdd.a...tNumber=155420 24v PS http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=1277 Thats it, just hook it up to the analog input. And set the the upper and lower limits in the Profilux window. In this case the upper limit is around 3600 GPH and lower is around 1 GPH. That all what is needed to add a flow meter to Profilux with a input card.

03/02/2009, 07:22 PM	#6
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	This how you would connect a Current Sensor to the input card. You get something like this, I believe this to be on the expensive side, but you get the idea what they look like and how they perform. http://web3.automationdirect.com/adc...nt_Transducers These sensors are 0-10 v output. 0v = 0 amps 10v = 10 amps You slide one side of the pump wire through the hole of this device. Note: You must only run one wire, if you run both you will cancel the readout, you get 0 amps. When a pump first turn on. You see the amp spike like 50%, its different for each motor. Once the motor is running at its speed, the current will be lower and stay constant. Now this is the cool, part. Over time, you will see the current increase. You will be data logging the amps. The current will start to rise over time, this is normal. There will be a point where the pump will start to fail, you will see the changes over time increase more now. This would be a good time, to see whats going wrong. Note: New motors current might decrease over time, because it being breaking in, bearings being tight. If a pump has a very small leak and water is getting inside the motor, you might see a small spike, telling you something is wrong, that something you will not catch if you wasn't data logging the current. Also will know, when the impeller is getting dirty, because the current will be also increasing over time. Remember the key thing is the data logging of the current. Taking a small snapshot of current is useless, but over a span, it is priceless. You could also calculate your kilowatt usages and by entering your local rates, you know how much your spending to run those MH light. Tricky part of the kilowatt meter, you will need to know your local voltage. You can measure it and manual it enter it in the software. Watts=Voltage x Amps Or buy a voltage sensor so you can be 100% right on. You will only need 1 voltage sensor, but need 1 current sensor for each device you want to monitor at the same time. Last thing you could use the current sensor is set up limits. If you know a pump should only run 1 amp, set the limit to 2 amps and sound alarm, or shut it off, or Even turn on a second pump. The possibilities are endless.

03/03/2009, 09:38 AM	#8
LunarDDS Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 334	Sounds to me like he just needs to build these add ons and sell them. They would be generic 0-10v output sensors to collect the data. The profilux is the logging device.

03/03/2009, 09:55 AM	#9
Heinz Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,534	i had to read it a few times, i gave up at first, but now i think i get it, keep the updates coming, i like it

03/03/2009, 10:07 AM	#10
dkirchoff Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: north Jersey Posts: 561	you got my brain going 12v outta 10v par....lol nice write up though

03/03/2009, 10:20 AM	#12
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	I got my from Reef Perfection in Canada. Right now you get $1.29 CAD for $1 USA, its about 27% discount including exchange fees. Free shipping. But you can get them at , USA dealer. cherrycorals A lot of good deals now with them.

03/03/2009, 07:11 PM	#17
Chrisrush Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,754	I'll have to find the post, but there are a couple of people here using them to ramp up/down the RPM for return pumps, etc. Surge water in/out of the display tank. __________________ Thanks, Chris Current Tank Info: 2015 Reef Savvy Dream Tank Winner

03/03/2009, 07:34 PM	#18
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	Profilux has a new product coming out, its a dimmable socket. You should be able to ramp the speed (AC voltage) up and down within the program. I am not sure how the programming is going to be, but something like this should be good. Ramp to full voltage within a time frame <<< user enter value in seconds. Starting point % Ending point % How many cycle till shut off. As you see, you can go nuts with this stuff, lol. VFD are design to control a motor to run at a certain speed with a variable load. Example, a pump motor, set at 66 psi. As more people are taking a bath, the VFD will maintain the 66 psi by increasing the motor speed. Once everyone stop bathing, the VFD will see maintaining the 66 psi needs less motor speed. Last edited by luisagos; 03/03/2009 at 07:58 PM.

03/04/2009, 06:15 PM	#20
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	My DIY Atmega128 based controller id based on 0-10v I/O since its inception more than several years ago The main purpose was to control sunrise/sunset via dimmable T5 ballasts. (VHO at the time of design). I also have the ability to monitor RMS voltage/current on 24 ouputs (but do not use it, as I could really care less anymore).

03/04/2009, 11:29 PM	#21
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	Controlling motor speed requires much more than just adjusting the voltage up and down. If you do that to some motors they will burn out. True variable motor controllers preserve the integrity of the sine wave and that keeps the motor happy. I looked into this for my closed loop and the good folks that make the Baldor motors strongly suggested not varying the supply voltage. __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

03/05/2009, 07:03 AM	#22
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Dave, You would use the 0-10V output of the controller to operate a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The VFD is what provides the steady sinewave that varies in freuquency

03/05/2009, 07:58 AM	#23
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	This is the Spec for the new Outlets. The dimmable powerbar provides 2 socket which can be dimmed using the 1-10V-interface. The phase angle modulation allows the connection of light bulbs and many motors. Possible applications: - dimming of light bulbs, e.g. for terrariums - controlling of current pumps Technical data: - 4A per socket -> approx. 900W at 230V resp. 450W at 115V - similar to a powerbar STDL4, just with only 2 sockets Also specs for the flow meter Just for reference. Last edited by luisagos; 03/05/2009 at 08:11 AM.

03/10/2009, 06:35 PM	#25
luisagos Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,453	Small update: I finally got my Profilux Plus ex controller today. Including the LAN card, ORP, PH and Conductivity Probes. Going to spend a couple of days playing with it. Also got the Quantum Meter Sensor ordered. I don't have the new input card yet, wont be out till may. I promise its going to be a breeze to connect the Quantum Sensor to the Profilux controller. I have been in contact with a Apogee Instruments Engineer and got all the information needed to data log with the sensor. Note: You can also use it as a stand alone PAR Meter using the controller as the display. I am still searching the right flow-meter, I am going to need start a thread about the npt size requirements for the flow meter. The current and voltage sensors i am still researching, i can go 1000 ways with these. They may also be come install with the future Profilux Power bars, still waiting for more information on that. If not i can post a easy DIY, with a BOM and place to buy the parts. Profilux are busy with tons of new products , going to be fun when some of these things fall in play.