Picked up some lace rock treated with copper. How do i clean?

JPReef · 03/13/2009, 08:33 AM

I picked up some EL CHEAPO lace/base rock that was in some tanks at the LFS treated with copper. How do i go about cleaning it and making sure i wont dose my tank with copper when i put it in?

Its been sittin out in my 20 degree garage all night so im not intending on keeping it live. Im sure whatever was on it is dead already including the green moss that coated them all, so im ok with that since its being used in my foam/rock wall build anyway.

Lemme know your thoughts. Thanks!

maxheadroom · 03/13/2009, 08:37 AM

i wouldn't use it, but thats just me.

ozzman69 · 03/13/2009, 08:38 AM

I don't think you can ever be sure to get all ream-nits of copper out of yet. I wouldn't use it either.

JPReef · 03/13/2009, 08:43 AM

Well i dont really think i can just take back 35 lbs of rock. So im obligating myself to use it. Im just looking for ways too clean it. Thanks for input though.

rendogg · 03/13/2009, 08:58 AM

You could use it for a fish only system but, unless someone knows a way to leach copper, don't use it if you want to keep inverts.

JPReef · 03/13/2009, 09:24 AM

I might return it then.....

still thinkin...

hawkfishman · 03/13/2009, 09:33 AM

its no good if it's going in a coral tank period

goldmaniac · 03/13/2009, 09:35 AM

I wouldn't ever use it in a reef tank. it would be fine in a fish-only, of course, but it is my understanding that the copper will continuously leech out.

I have rock in a QT tank that I never plan to put back into my display tank because it's been the QT when i treated with copper. If i had remembered, i would have taken out the better pieces before dosing, but i forgot and now i can't put it back into my display. won't take the chance.

nikon187 · 03/13/2009, 11:05 AM

Agree with everyone on this, if treated with copper it isn't going to be good for a reef tank EVER

MileHighFish · 03/13/2009, 11:41 AM

Trash Can

sometimes you get what you pay for.. Never use any rock or tank that had copper used at one time. .

Frick-n-Frags · 03/13/2009, 11:51 AM

yup, fish only, like for the quarantine tank, if you have one of those

superedge88 · 03/13/2009, 11:56 AM

you can try cuprisorb
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...=&child=SC3275
In an RO water bath for a couple of weeks is how I would do it if you really want to give this a try. My feeling is that if you let it soak in RO water along with cuprisorb in it for a couple of weeks just keep an eye on the color change of the cuprisorb. If it stops turning color then you are probably fine. Keep running copper tests on your RO water bath, if you are not registering copper on your tests then you are fine. Testing the copper level in your RO bath is vital to your piece of mind in this endeavor.

bubbly · 03/13/2009, 12:29 PM

I wouldn't use it.

How much are you spending on this hobby?

How much did you pay for the rocks?

Even if you manage to pull some of the copper out short term, you don't know how much is still going to to leach out long-term.

Even if you only want to have fish, they will still want to eat the pods in your system, which will be hurt by the copper and not do much reproducing.

It's a fool's bargain.

WhatIgot · 03/13/2009, 12:54 PM

I wouldn't even use a tank that had been treated with copper, let alone something as porous as live rock?

superedge88 · 03/13/2009, 01:10 PM

Not really a legitimate worry about using an aquarium that has had copper in it, kind of one of those perpetuated worries that is basically unfounded. All you have to do is run some copper absorbing media and do some simple copper tests to make sure you are fine. Copper is a trace element in salt mixes, you just have to make sure that it is not in high levels in your water and you are fine.

MileHighFish · 03/13/2009, 05:12 PM

I have always read that a tank used with copper will have residual copper absorbed by the silicone, even if that isnt the case why would you buy a tank used for that purpose or rock for that matter, then go through all the steps you described there is plenty of tanks that have never had copper exposure and your avoiding all the "what ifs" IMO.

MileHighFish · 03/13/2009, 05:13 PM

Where are you a curator at? that must be an interesting job..

superedge88 · 03/13/2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MileHighFish
I have always read that a tank used with copper will have residual copper absorbed by the silicone, even if that isnt the case why would you buy a tank used for that purpose or rock for that matter, then go through all the steps you described there is plenty of tanks that have never had copper exposure and your avoiding all the "what ifs" IMO.

I agree that most people don't want to mess around with using cuprisorb and running copper tests, but some of us that want to save every dime they can and are willing to take some extra steps may find it worth it. As far as the rock goes, I probably wouldn't go to all the trouble for lace rock either, but just threw out the procedure in case he wants to take the extra time and try it out.
A tank may have some residual copper, but if it is so low that your copper tests don't register it after soaking in RO water you are most likely in the clear.
Referring to your question, I take care of some large(ish) aquariums in a restaurant in Kansas City.

MileHighFish · 03/13/2009, 06:52 PM

That must be one very nice restaurant to have 50K gal tank.. I hope its not a seafood restaurant LOL..

Salamander · 03/13/2009, 07:03 PM

I wouldn't use lace rock period. Its most often basalt rock (volcanic) which could contain all kinds of unwanted minerals. Composition depends on where its from and even which specific eruption. Even different events from a single vent can have totally different mineral composition. Although I have seen some rock labeled "lace rock" which was a limestone, but usually its basalt.

tmz · 03/13/2009, 10:37 PM

Copper will kill your inverts at very low levels often undetecable .

eros · 03/14/2009, 05:16 AM

If it is possible I would return it. I picked up some lace rock from someone who didn't know the history on it. Just not being certain it was not exposed to copper was reason enough for me to ditch it. If you are trying to save cash you usually can find some on craigslist for a good price depending on where you live or you could buy base rock and cure it yourself. Or just pick up small amount when you come across a good deal. It's not too hard to find someone who is getting out of the hobby or downsizing and willing to sell or trade for frags. That's what I did now I have too much rock.

If you are absolutely set on keeping it I would first soak it in muriatic acid to get rid of the copper then rinse several times in fresh water then cure it in salt water with cuprisorb. Seems like more trouble than it's worth to me.

cdbias2 · 03/14/2009, 06:13 AM

That rock is not going to save you money.

superedge88 · 03/14/2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tmz
Copper will kill your inverts at very low levels often undetecable .

A quality test kit can test down below .05 ppm which is below the lethal level of copper for invertebrates.

tmz · 03/14/2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by superedge88
A quality test kit can test down below .05 ppm which is below the lethal level of copper for invertebrates.

I wouldn't count on it, particulary if it's leaching. BTW if there is a source listing lethal levels for various invertebrates and mollusks,etc, I haven't seen it and would like to reference it. I think it can harm and kill at much lower levels than that. Could you provide it?

03/13/2009, 08:33 AM	#1
JPReef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bucyrus, Ohio Posts: 245	Picked up some lace rock treated with copper. How do i clean? I picked up some EL CHEAPO lace/base rock that was in some tanks at the LFS treated with copper. How do i go about cleaning it and making sure i wont dose my tank with copper when i put it in? Its been sittin out in my 20 degree garage all night so im not intending on keeping it live. Im sure whatever was on it is dead already including the green moss that coated them all, so im ok with that since its being used in my foam/rock wall build anyway. Lemme know your thoughts. Thanks!

03/13/2009, 11:05 AM	#9
nikon187 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 4,717	Agree with everyone on this, if treated with copper it isn't going to be good for a reef tank EVER __________________ ----------------- Current Tanks: New 210 custom 84 x 24 x 24, 60g sump, SWC 250 extreme with bubble blaster 5000, 2 vortech mp40, 2 vortech mp10, 12 T5, Water blaster 5000, warner marine bio pellets, 60g clownfish cube, red carpet anemone with a 25g sump,SRO octopus 1000sss, 250w radium, lumenarc large.

03/13/2009, 11:41 AM	#10
MileHighFish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NM. Posts: 1,722	Trash Can sometimes you get what you pay for.. Never use any rock or tank that had copper used at one time. . __________________ See "Red House" for pics!! I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. Mitch Hedberg Current Tank Info: Reef tank, 100 gal Lee Mar polished.. 60 sump.. 800 watts mh 20k radium..Ran on "Taiwan HQI Ballast" 330 watt VHO.. 48 watt compacts (dawn/dusk).. sps/lps tank..

03/13/2009, 11:51 AM	#11
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	yup, fish only, like for the quarantine tank, if you have one of those __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

03/13/2009, 11:56 AM	#12
superedge88 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 827	you can try cuprisorb http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...=&child=SC3275 In an RO water bath for a couple of weeks is how I would do it if you really want to give this a try. My feeling is that if you let it soak in RO water along with cuprisorb in it for a couple of weeks just keep an eye on the color change of the cuprisorb. If it stops turning color then you are probably fine. Keep running copper tests on your RO water bath, if you are not registering copper on your tests then you are fine. Testing the copper level in your RO bath is vital to your piece of mind in this endeavor. __________________ DRILL IT!!! Current Tank Info: In charge of over 50,000 gallons of fish only tanks

03/13/2009, 08:37 AM	#2
maxheadroom Clownfish Farmer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL Posts: 2,071	i wouldn't use it, but thats just me.

03/13/2009, 08:38 AM	#3
ozzman69 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mchenry, IL Posts: 98	I don't think you can ever be sure to get all ream-nits of copper out of yet. I wouldn't use it either.

03/13/2009, 08:43 AM	#4
JPReef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bucyrus, Ohio Posts: 245	Well i dont really think i can just take back 35 lbs of rock. So im obligating myself to use it. Im just looking for ways too clean it. Thanks for input though.

03/13/2009, 08:58 AM	#5
rendogg Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Abbotsford, B.C. Posts: 578	You could use it for a fish only system but, unless someone knows a way to leach copper, don't use it if you want to keep inverts.

03/13/2009, 09:24 AM	#6
JPReef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bucyrus, Ohio Posts: 245	I might return it then..... still thinkin...

03/13/2009, 09:33 AM	#7
hawkfishman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 178	its no good if it's going in a coral tank period

03/13/2009, 09:35 AM	#8
goldmaniac Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,567	I wouldn't ever use it in a reef tank. it would be fine in a fish-only, of course, but it is my understanding that the copper will continuously leech out. I have rock in a QT tank that I never plan to put back into my display tank because it's been the QT when i treated with copper. If i had remembered, i would have taken out the better pieces before dosing, but i forgot and now i can't put it back into my display. won't take the chance.

03/13/2009, 12:29 PM	#13
bubbly Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 331	I wouldn't use it. How much are you spending on this hobby? How much did you pay for the rocks? Even if you manage to pull some of the copper out short term, you don't know how much is still going to to leach out long-term. Even if you only want to have fish, they will still want to eat the pods in your system, which will be hurt by the copper and not do much reproducing. It's a fool's bargain.

03/13/2009, 12:54 PM	#14
WhatIgot Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Coquitlam (Vancouver) Posts: 61	I wouldn't even use a tank that had been treated with copper, let alone something as porous as live rock? __________________ Happily Ever NOW! Current Tank Info: 95 display mixed reef w. 60 sump, 2 gal 'fuge. AP12 70w HQI mixed reef, 100 2X400w Frag Tank

03/13/2009, 01:10 PM	#15
superedge88 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 827	Not really a legitimate worry about using an aquarium that has had copper in it, kind of one of those perpetuated worries that is basically unfounded. All you have to do is run some copper absorbing media and do some simple copper tests to make sure you are fine. Copper is a trace element in salt mixes, you just have to make sure that it is not in high levels in your water and you are fine. __________________ DRILL IT!!! Current Tank Info: In charge of over 50,000 gallons of fish only tanks

03/13/2009, 05:12 PM	#16
MileHighFish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NM. Posts: 1,722	I have always read that a tank used with copper will have residual copper absorbed by the silicone, even if that isnt the case why would you buy a tank used for that purpose or rock for that matter, then go through all the steps you described there is plenty of tanks that have never had copper exposure and your avoiding all the "what ifs" IMO. __________________ See "Red House" for pics!! I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. Mitch Hedberg Current Tank Info: Reef tank, 100 gal Lee Mar polished.. 60 sump.. 800 watts mh 20k radium..Ran on "Taiwan HQI Ballast" 330 watt VHO.. 48 watt compacts (dawn/dusk).. sps/lps tank..

03/13/2009, 05:13 PM	#17
MileHighFish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NM. Posts: 1,722	Where are you a curator at? that must be an interesting job.. __________________ See "Red House" for pics!! I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. Mitch Hedberg Current Tank Info: Reef tank, 100 gal Lee Mar polished.. 60 sump.. 800 watts mh 20k radium..Ran on "Taiwan HQI Ballast" 330 watt VHO.. 48 watt compacts (dawn/dusk).. sps/lps tank..

03/13/2009, 06:52 PM	#19
MileHighFish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NM. Posts: 1,722	That must be one very nice restaurant to have 50K gal tank.. I hope its not a seafood restaurant LOL.. __________________ See "Red House" for pics!! I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. Mitch Hedberg Current Tank Info: Reef tank, 100 gal Lee Mar polished.. 60 sump.. 800 watts mh 20k radium..Ran on "Taiwan HQI Ballast" 330 watt VHO.. 48 watt compacts (dawn/dusk).. sps/lps tank..

03/13/2009, 07:03 PM	#20
Salamander Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 2,103	I wouldn't use lace rock period. Its most often basalt rock (volcanic) which could contain all kinds of unwanted minerals. Composition depends on where its from and even which specific eruption. Even different events from a single vent can have totally different mineral composition. Although I have seen some rock labeled "lace rock" which was a limestone, but usually its basalt. __________________ I feel more like myself now than I did before. Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef, 2 x 250W DE MH, 2 x 54w T5, MSX 200 SKimmer, 2 Koralia 4's, 40g fuge/sump, QT

03/13/2009, 10:37 PM	#21
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Copper will kill your inverts at very low levels often undetecable . __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

03/14/2009, 05:16 AM	#22
eros Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 878	If it is possible I would return it. I picked up some lace rock from someone who didn't know the history on it. Just not being certain it was not exposed to copper was reason enough for me to ditch it. If you are trying to save cash you usually can find some on craigslist for a good price depending on where you live or you could buy base rock and cure it yourself. Or just pick up small amount when you come across a good deal. It's not too hard to find someone who is getting out of the hobby or downsizing and willing to sell or trade for frags. That's what I did now I have too much rock. If you are absolutely set on keeping it I would first soak it in muriatic acid to get rid of the copper then rinse several times in fresh water then cure it in salt water with cuprisorb. Seems like more trouble than it's worth to me.

03/14/2009, 06:13 AM	#23
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	That rock is not going to save you money.