does chaeto remove phosphates

[hernluis]

Hey guys. Does cheato remove phosphates and to what extent?
thanks

[DGee]

Yes...

I couldn't tell you to what extent, if your having a po4 problem then you need to locate the source and fix it.

Chaeto is not going to solve a po4 problem.

[Lofty]

IMO... Cheato makes my sump look cool... Other than that.... no effect.

Some use vodka

[Alaskan Reefer]

If it's growing, it's removing nutrients from the water, but is better used as a preventative than a cure.

[builderguy]

PhosBan Reactor....works great!

[straydum]

Originally posted by Lofty
IMO... Cheato makes my sump look cool... Other than that.... no effect.

Some use vodka

i too think a sump isn't complete without that green mass.

it does remove nitrates and phophates but not at the rate that your tank's producing them

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by straydum
i too think a sump isn't complete without that green mass.

it does remove nitrates and phophates but not at the rate that your tank's producing them

Not true. For example, I have a fairly stoutly loaded 10g nano. The refugium I have on it is about 10" long and tall, 4" wide. Ie, not big.


It's been up for about 6 months now, and I feed fairly heavily.


I have never ONCE had phosphates or nitrates high enough to detect on the API kit. Granted, the API phosphate only measures to .125ppm, which is still too high.

However, the chaeto was and still is most certainly removing it at the rate that my tank is producing them.


I do not dose vodka, nor use phosban/GFO, do not do massive water changes (10% every... once in a while).

[straydum]

ah of course most people wouldn't have sump so much bigger then their displays

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by straydum
ah of course most people wouldn't have sump so much bigger then their displays

My refugium is barely 20% the size of my main tank. Yes, that's bigger than most folks have for a refugium--- but it's not that much bigger.


From what I've seen, lot so folks way "under" light their refugiums with small 13watt CF's. From what I've seen, the more you light it, the better it works. I use a 26 watt CF and occasionally dose iron since it will deplete it.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Macroalgae are typically about 5% nitrogen and 0.1% phosphorus by weight (based on dry weight). So as it grows it removes a lot of nitrogen and phosphorus.

I discuss it here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php#12
from it:


Phosphate Export by Organisms: Macroalgae
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Growing and harvesting macroalgae can be a very effective way to reduce phosphate levels (along with other nutrients) in reef aquaria. In my reef system, where I have large, lit refugia to grow the macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa and Chaetomorpha sp., these algae are clearly the largest phosphate export mechanisms. Aquaria with large amounts of thriving macroalgae can avoid microalgae problems or excessive phosphate levels that might inhibit coral calcification. Whether the reduction in phosphate is the cause of the microalgae reduction is not obvious; other nutrients can also become limiting. But to reef aquarists with a severe microalgae problem, the exact mechanism may make no difference. If rapidly growing macroalgae absorb enough phosphorus to keep the orthophosphate concentrations in the water column acceptably low, and at the same time keep microalgae under control, most reefkeepers will be satisfied.

For those interested in knowing how much phosphorus is being exported by macroalgae, this free PDF article in the journal Marine Biology has some important information. It gives the phosphorus and nitrogen content for nine different species of macroalgae, including many that reefkeepers typically maintain. For example, Caulerpa racemosa collected off Hawaii contains about 0.08 % phosphorus by dry weight and 5.6% nitrogen. Harvesting 10 grams (dry weight) of this macroalgae from an aquarium would be the equivalent of removing 24 mg of phosphate from the water column. That amount is the equivalent of reducing the phosphate concentration from 0.2 ppm to 0.1 ppm in a 67-gallon aquarium. All of the other species tested gave similar results (plus or minus a factor of two). Interestingly, using the same paper's nitrogen data, this would also be equivalent to reducing the nitrate content by 2.5 grams, or 10 ppm in that same 67-gallon aquarium.

[jbird69]

great info!!!

[Rahair]

I hope to use the power of Chaeto soon in my new sump. I will name it Chester Chaeto Kaelin.

[rickh]

I am convinced that all Chaeto and other Algae needs is light. It will grow faster with PO4 "fertilizer" present, but light and seawater are the only real necessities.

I have a quarantine tank in the basement. PC light, skimmer, 20 gallons, HOB filter, LR, a few cast off Zoas/Leathers, etc. I haven't had a fish in this tank in over a year. I do change about 25% of the water every few months. No dosing. No food. No love.

I put a golf ball size hunk of Cheato in the tank, a month or so later when I change some water it's at least the size of softball.

I run a PO4 reactor, refugium, skimmer, feed the minimum and still have nuisance algae in my other tanks. We are driving ourselves crazy to prevent algae.
The only hope is that your tank is large enough to house a fish that will eat it. R

[CoRPS]

My chaeto doubled in size in about 3 weeks. I can't wait to upgrade my tank so that I can have a large fuge and have about 30-40gallons of chaeto!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am convinced that all Chaeto and other Algae needs is light. It will grow faster with PO4 "fertilizer" present, but light and seawater are the only real necessities.


Do you mean that literally? It certainly isn't true as written, but it is quite possible for you to grow macroalgae or microalgae in a tank where you cannot detect elevated nutrients with a test kit.

[rickh]

The only thing that has been added in the last year is fresh sea water and light. Through the marvels of photosynthesis the algae can make everything it needs from the components in the sea water. I think that's what happening in our tanks. Fresh sea water, tons of light and nothing to consume the algae at adequate rates in most tanks.

I think we need a experiment!!
An empty five gallon salt bucket, PH and heater all cleaned with bleach solution. Fresh sea water, a light and Cheato. No LR or sand. Maybe I will toss in a couple pieces of green bubble algae for fun.

Give light. See if it grows. R

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Algae needs nutrients to grow. These cannot be supplied by photosynthesis. These especially include nitrogen and phosphate since they must make up a large portion of their molecular structures such as DNA, proteins, etc.

Either you are adding them, such as via top off water or the fresh salt water, or it is already in the tank (via live rock or sand that has built up phosphorus on it. FWIW, some salt mixes contain vitamins that can supply nitrogen.

There is no magic way for phosphorus to get into an aquarium unless it has been added somehow. Nitrogen is also needed, although one could wildly speculate that if you had enough cyanobacteria fixing nitrogen and then dying and releasing its nutrients to the water, you might get nitrogen that way.

[rickh]

Either you are adding them, such as via top off water or the fresh salt water, or it is already in the tank (via live rock or sand that has built up phosphorus on it. FWIW, some salt mixes contain vitamins that can supply nitrogen.

That's what I said.
Enough nutrient come from the water to maintain nuisance algae. If there is an excess from feeding, etc the problem will be greater.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But it only comes if you use inappropriate water. Using RO/DI will not supply nutrients.

What are you using?

[tatuvaaj]

Does anyone know how much you would actually had to collect to get 10 grams dry Chaeto?

It might be much more than expected...

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by rickh
That's what I said.
Enough nutrient come from the water to maintain nuisance algae. If there is an excess from feeding, etc the problem will be greater.

What Randy is saying is basically that our salt mixes and RO/DI water do not contribute enough nitrogen and phosphorus to grow algae.

I've seen both chaeto AND caulerpa flat-out DIE in situtations of low/no nitrogen/phosphorus.



If you mix your water with regular tap water, you'll be putting in some amount of nitrogen and phosphorus, depending on how bad your water is.


Natural sea water will have some but again it will vary depending on where you harvested it.

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by tatuvaaj
Does anyone know how much you would actually had to collect to get 10 grams dry Chaeto?

It might be much more than expected...

You are probably right.... a LOT of "wet" would equal 10g of dry.

Personally when harvesting, I just pull out about half of my stock and give it away. I have no idea the dry weight..... but it works fine for me.

[rickh]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
But it only comes if you use inappropriate water. Using RO/DI will not supply nutrients.

What are you using?

RO water. I said nothing about nutrents in RO water. You did.

Either you are adding them, such as via top off water or the fresh salt water,

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

RO water. I said nothing about nutrents in RO water. You did.

OK, then you are not adding nutrients and your assertion that photosynthesis will provide everything that is needed is wrong. You might want to do some further reading on photosynthesis and what it does.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does anyone know how much you would actually had to collect to get 10 grams dry Chaeto?

It might be much more than expected...



In this article, i show that the dry weight of Chaeto is about 13% of the wet weight:

" had just under a gram (wet) of total new growth, or about 0.13 grams dry weight "

Iodine in Reef Tanks 2: Effects on Macroalgae Growth
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2003/chem.htm