Help me plan out the details of my 75 Gallon tank

[jcovercash]

I am working on all the details for my 75 RR build. I have the following components already.

75 Gallon reef ready Marineland Tank with corner overflow.
29 Gallon glass tank that I will be using as a sump
10 Gallon glass tank that will be the refugium
MRC MR-1 Skimmer
BRS Dual Reactor
Satellite Fixture for fuge

I will be building my own stand for the tank and equipment as its going to have to be bigger in all dimensions over the tank to house the tanks and equipment that I want to use. This should just help stability more though.

I need some help choosing my pumps and stuff however. This is how I plan to set it up.


The tank will drain into the left hand side of the 29 gallon sump (It will be located on the left side of the stand). In the section of the sump that the tank drains into I will drill holes for the MRC skimmers pump and return. I want to use an external pump for it for two reasons, #1 I have read that works better when you use a pressure rated external pump, and #2 to keep the pumps heat out of the water. the skimmer will dump is "clean" water back into the same chamber.

From there the water will go through a set of bubble traps made or glass to the return section of the sump. In the return section I plan to drill a hole for an external return pump, again to keep the pumps heat out of the water. The output of the return pump will run up to the return on the main display tank, being Y'ed off before with a ball valve on the Y'ed section to control flow rate, this Y'ed off section will be dumped back to the sump.

I then plan to use a submersible pump in the return section of the sump to pump water up to the refugium, which is going to be on the right hand side of the sump elevated above the sump about 6-8". The refugium will gravity drain via two 3/4 bulkheads with strainers back to the sump.

I will be using a MJ-1200 in the return section of the sump to feed my BRS dual reactor.


I will be purchasing a ReefKeeper Lite L3 for control of my tank and pumps.

Lighting is going to be a Outer Orbit HQI/T5HO combo 150Watt HQI

I plan to mainly keep Zoanthids, softies, some lps. Not really into SPS, I may eventually get some of the more hardy stuff, but im not worried about building my tank around them surviving.

So now my questions are.
#1. What is a good external pump that is QUITE that I can use that will work great with my MRC MR-1?... I am leaning towards the Pan World 100PX after talking to MRC today. Is this a reliable and quite pump? It doesn't have to be silent, I just don't want it to sound like a freight train in my room

#2. What return pump should I go with? I have heard really good things about the Eheims. Would this pump be ok to run externally? Should I go with the 1260, or will I probably need the 1262? My tank is not going to be that high above my return pump... Less than 36". I am going to try to keep bends out of the return line as much as possible.

#4. Is there anything wrong with the way I want to plumb up the return bypass to control the flow rate? This is why I am thinking I should get the 1262, so I can back if down via this bypass to get the flow rate I need in the tank. Should I just use the bypass to feed my refugium rather than adding another pump? I know if I do this I will go with the 1262. Should the 1262 be enough to pump up to the return in my tank and feed the refugium?

#5. What pump would you recommend that I use to get water up to the refugium, if I don't do the above? What kind of flow rate should I be looking for through it? It will most likely only have Chaeto, some live sand, and rock rubble. Maybe a quite one pump possibly, if I don't use the eheim idea from above?

#6. What powerheads should I put in the tank itself, and where should I locate them? I have been looking at the Tunze nanostream pumps. I want to make sure whatever I get doesn't have the poor power issues with the Reefkeeper that I have read that some of the Koralias have. I want to be able to use them in outlets 2,3 for the way I plan to wire everything up. I don't want to have to use specific ports. Im not putting the money into a vortech or the controllable nanostreams. But I would get a few of the normal ones. What models should I get and how much would you put in the tank? this is what I don't know and I want to get this right so I don't have to add stuff once its up and running. If there is another pump you would recommend please tell me.




Please feel free to make any suggestions, I'm sure Ill have more questions as I go along.


Thanks,
Josh

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by jcovercash

So now my questions are.
#1. What is a good external pump that is QUITE that I can use that will work great with my MRC MR-1?... I am leaning towards the Pan World 100PX after talking to MRC today. Is this a reliable and quite pump? It doesn't have to be silent, I just don't want it to sound like a freight train in my room

Personally, I'd go with their recommendation. I have no experience with this skimmer so I can't comment.

#2. What return pump should I go with? I have heard really good things about the Eheims. Would this pump be ok to run externally? Should I go with the 1260, or will I probably need the 1262? My tank is not going to be that high above my return pump... Less than 36". I am going to try to keep bends out of the return line as much as possible.

What do you have for drain plumbing? That will determine the requirement for your return pump. I'm guessing you'll have a single 1" bulkhead in that corner overflow for drain - that means you've got about 600 gph as a return limit. Of course, the flow number listed for most pumps is at zero head pressure, while you'll have some loss from the trip back up to your tank. You can probably figure about 4 - 6' of head: you want to include the actual rise from the sump to the tank, plus a bit more for frictional losses. The 1260 is rated at 635 gph, but Eheim arguably under-rates their pumps, so it would probably be about right. The 1262 is rated at 900 gph and would likely be a bit too much, but that might be a good thing (more on that in a minute.)

#4. Is there anything wrong with the way I want to plumb up the return bypass to control the flow rate? This is why I am thinking I should get the 1262, so I can back if down via this bypass to get the flow rate I need in the tank. Should I just use the bypass to feed my refugium rather than adding another pump? I know if I do this I will go with the 1262. Should the 1262 be enough to pump up to the return in my tank and feed the refugium?

There's nothing wrong with your plan, but it's not the most efficient design. For a while, many people have been championing the exact setup you are suggesting - T'ing off the return line and plumbing that T back into the sump. The people championing this design claim that it reduces stress on the pump, which is actually 100% inaccurate. The vast majority of centrifugal pumps we use in this hobby actually run BETTER (more efficient, less power draw, less wear) if they are throttled back, instead of running wide open or using a T'd line to limit flow. In other words, you'd be better off just putting a ball valve on the return line and NOT using the T back to the sump to limit flow.

Of course, the differences are probably not really that big for the situations we are being in, but it's important to have the record set straight anyways, IMHO.

But, you raise an interesting alternative - using a slightly oversized return pump and T'ing off to the refugium. This accomplishes several goals - it allows you to control your return to the main tank, and it eliminates the need for a separate pump to get water to the 'fuge. IMHO this is the best option. If you go this route, definitely use the larger Eheim, and put a ball valve on each line - i.e. to the display tank, and to the 'fuge. This will give you complete control, and allow you to isolate either for maintenance if you need to.

#5. What pump would you recommend that I use to get water up to the refugium, if I don't do the above? What kind of flow rate should I be looking for through it? It will most likely only have Chaeto, some live sand, and rock rubble. Maybe a quite one pump possibly, if I don't use the eheim idea from above?

See above. If you decide to use a dedicated pump after all, I'd just get a maxi-jet. IMHO they are the de-facto standard for small pumps/powerheads for things like this.

#6. What powerheads should I put in the tank itself, and where should I locate them? I have been looking at the Tunze nanostream pumps. I want to make sure whatever I get doesn't have the poor power issues with the Reefkeeper that I have read that some of the Koralias have. I want to be able to use them in outlets 2,3 for the way I plan to wire everything up. I don't want to have to use specific ports. Im not putting the money into a vortech or the controllable nanostreams. But I would get a few of the normal ones. What models should I get and how much would you put in the tank? this is what I don't know and I want to get this right so I don't have to add stuff once its up and running. If there is another pump you would recommend please tell me.

The nanostreams are a great option. It's hard to recommend models/numbers except for comparing to what other people use, since most of the old rules of thumb about turnover in a display tank are based on really outdated concepts (using centrifugal powerheads instead of prop pumps, for example.) Since you are concentrating mostly on corals without demanding flow requirements, you don't need a ton - just enough to keep things moving and prevent dead spots. IMHO a larger number of smaller pumps is better than one or two giant pumps, so if it were me, I'd probably get four of the smallest size (the 6025) or three of the next size up (the 6045).

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I was really confused re-reading my post about where question #3 went. Then I re-read your post and saw that there wasn't one.

[E.intheC]

Sounds like you have been doing a lot of planning before you really get going, and that's always a great thing to see.

The only two things that caught my attention immediately were: your Maxi Jet 1200.. that's a lot of flow for the reactors, in my opinion. You might want to either use a smaller one or have a ball valve to throttle it back. GFO and Carbon don't like being mashed around too much. It will break the particles up.

The other thing is the external pump.. I like the skimmers that sit inside the sump because of the real possibility of an overflow. If something goes awry in your tank, the skimmer could overflow into your stand.

Other than that, I'm not seeing anything (also, because I'm not a pro with sumps either).

Good luck. I'm sure others with more knowledge will chime in on your other plans.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by E.intheC

The other thing is the external pump.. I like the skimmers that sit inside the sump because of the real possibility of an overflow. If something goes awry in your tank, the skimmer could overflow into your stand.

This is indeed something that needs to be considered, but isn't un-solvable.

To combat this, the OP could ask MRC to drill two holes in the collection cup (or just drill them himself). One down low, with a nipple in it and a line running to a big collection device - a 5g bucket or something. Then, another one a bit higher than this for emergencies, with a hose running back to the sump. Then, worst case, the skimmer drains back to the sump instead of overflowing.

Another option is to put a single nipple up near the top of the collection cup. Then, run a line from that to the air intake for the skimmer's beckett nozzle. This way, if the skimmer started to overflow, it would just suck the skimmate back into itself and basically shut down.

Also, if the stand were big enough, the skimmer could simply be positioned above the sump, so overflows would just naturally drain into the sump.

Normally, I would prefer an in-sump skimmer, but for some designs - such as beckett-driven skimmers - external makes a lot of sense. These skimmers really do need a pump with a lot of head, and high head pumps tend to run pretty hot - there really aren't many appropriate pumps that are submersible.

[jcovercash]

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
I was really confused re-reading my post about where question #3 went. Then I re-read your post and saw that there wasn't one.

HAHA yea... It was a question that I had about dumping the skimmers output up and over the tank, but I called MRC and they said thats a no-no as it creates to much backpressure.

I appreciate all your insight, it pretty much reaffirms what I was thinking and makes me think that I actually do know a little bit about what I am planning on doing LOL.


Is there any problems with the eheims and plumbing them up externally? I want to try to keep as much heat out of the water as possible, so if I have to drill another hole in the sump thats not a big deal to me. Also the output on the eheims are 1", should I just run 1" plumbing up to the return line and right before it connects to the bulkhead drop it down to 3/4"?

Also Schedule 40 or do I need to go with Schedule 80 when I plumb this?


Thanks,
Josh

[jcovercash]

Originally posted by E.intheC
Sounds like you have been doing a lot of planning before you really get going, and that's always a great thing to see.

The only two things that caught my attention immediately were: your Maxi Jet 1200.. that's a lot of flow for the reactors, in my opinion. You might want to either use a smaller one or have a ball valve to throttle it back. GFO and Carbon don't like being mashed around too much. It will break the particles up.

The other thing is the external pump.. I like the skimmers that sit inside the sump because of the real possibility of an overflow. If something goes awry in your tank, the skimmer could overflow into your stand.

Other than that, I'm not seeing anything (also, because I'm not a pro with sumps either).

Good luck. I'm sure others with more knowledge will chime in on your other plans.

The MJ 1200 is what BulkReefSupply recommends with their dual reactor. They include a all valve to dial it down.

I do plan on having a 5 gallon bucket or sorts connected to the skimmers cup in case of an overflow... Or I may look at putting a float switch in the top of the overflow cup and hooking that the the ReefKeeper and have it cut off the skimmer pump in case of a drastic rise in water


Thanks,
Josh