Dry Rock Culturing Techniques?

[scolley]

I've got a large tank that I plan to convert to a reef in about a year. But given the tank's size, there is no way I'm going to be able to afford to buy enough live rock - cured or otherwise - for that tank. I could put in dry rock and seed it (with live and fully cultured rock), but then it'll be a year or so before the tank looks decent.

I don't mind waiting a year for dry rock to become populated with critters, and showing nice coralline algae. What I care about it having it in my family room, and having to look at it.

Since it's going to be a year before that tank is ready anyway, is there any way I could could start culturing rock in advance of that time? In containers other that the aquarium? Like putting dry rock in vats of saltwater in my garage, seed it with fully cultured rock (and maybe sand), keep it warm, give it light, do periodic water changes, and let nature do it's thing?

Would be a great way to have a tank full of fully cultured rock in a year, ready for the new tank. But I don't know if, or how, it can be done.

Any advice?

Thanks!


PS - I know that since my primary driver here is cost savings, a traditional alternative is to just get cheap, fully cultured live rock from someone tearing down their tank. But I'm somewhat enamored of the idea with seeding from carefully selected tanks - and the potential protection from unwanted pests it provides.

[boxcar182]

i would still get a little cured live rock itll speed up getting the uncured liverock cycled

[scolley]

Yeah, that makes sense. But I'd really rather start with dry rock. Please see the PS I stuck on my first post (I think I was editing it as you posted - so you didn't see it). Thanks.

Bottom line, I'd rather start with carefully seeded dry rock than seeding cured live rock if I could. Cut's down on the unknowns.

[fireman676]

I'm doing the same thing as we speak. I will be setting up a 210 gal soon and I have been curing some dry rock for a couple of months. I used some LR rubble to seed it. Its cheap and not much chance of hitchhikers. I have the same worry about buying LR from someone breaking down a tank.

[scolley]

Cool! So I'm not alone in that level of caution. Thanks.

Question is, how are you doing it? I know you can do it in your tank - that's obvious. But are there tried-and-true methods for doing it in a more "industrial" fashion... cheap hardware, out-of-sight, low maintenance - where the greatest challenge is just the wait?

[Shmax]

It can definitely be done, but there is something not mentioned here. The benefits of live rock do not stop at coralline algae and beneficial bacteria. There are many microorganisms in live rock that contribute to a long lived healthy system. I would try very hard to select hitchhiker free pieces, but I do believe you can be overly cautious and not get enough good critters. Mini brittle stars, stomatella snails, collinista snails, and live mysis shrimp are just a few of the great animals that have showed up in my system without introduction. I ended up finding one pesky gorilla crab, and he makes up the sole member of the "bad hitchhiker" list. All that said, if I was trying to do what you propose here, I would go with long wide rubbermaid totes, shop lighting on a short photoperiod, and seed the dry rock with LR rubble and scraped off coralline chips, lots of coralline chips. My .02

[scolley]

Originally posted by Shmax
There are many microorganisms in live rock that contribute to a long lived healthy system. I would try very hard to select hitchhiker free pieces, but I do believe you can be overly cautious and not get enough good critters. Mini brittle stars, stomatella snails, collinista snails, and live mysis shrimp are just a few of the great animals that have showed up in my system without introduction.

Understood and agreed. Thanks.

That's what I meant by "fully cultured", instead of just saying "live rock". I'm talking about seeding with rock from carefully selected tanks that have diverse, abundant, and appropriate bio-diversity living in, and on, the live rock. Being very careful to find such tanks, and using some of that rock as seed material should cover your cautions.

And what I did not mention was that - to ensure proper diversity - that I would get such seed rock from not one, but multiple very successful, mature tanks.

Originally posted by Shmax
...if I was trying to do what you propose here, I would go with long wide rubbermaid totes, shop lighting on a short photoperiod, and seed the dry rock with LR rubble and scraped off coralline chips, lots of coralline chips. My .02

Thanks. How short a photoperiod? And how much light? And what about filtration and w/c frequency? And where would the nutrients for growth be coming from? This isn't just "curing" - a euphemism for slow die-off and rotting. This is "culturing" which - as you indicate - goes beyond bacterial seeding. It's growing macro organisms. And that should take nutrients coming INTO the system.

This is why I'm asking. All that is taken care of in a tank that is slowly being established. Not sure how to go about it in rubbermaid tubs though.

Surely people have done this. I'm a newbie, but I can't imagine that every tank started with the technique of seeding dry rock is done in a full tank, in full view. Surely there are established ways to do this in a more industrial fashion.

[cdbias2]

Cure your rock in the darkness. Most pest thrive on light and most bacteria dont need light at all. 3 or 4 months in the dark and no aptasia and no algae. Pods dont need light either.

[scolley]

Originally posted by cdbias2
Cure your rock in the darkness. Most pest thrive on light and most bacteria dont need light at all. 3 or 4 months in the dark and no aptasia and no algae. Pods dont need light either.

Since I'm not talking about "curing" rock, but seeding dry rock... are you suggesting that as an alternative? Doing the typical curing of uncured live rock, but doing it in the darkness as a better method for insuring that your new rock does not bring pests into the tank?

If so, that's gotta be a much faster path to a decent looking tank than the seeding of dead, dry rock with fully cultured stuff that I'm talking about.

[Shmax]

Coralline algae doesn't need much light to grow, my skimmer grows some on the inside, and that's from only ambient room lighting from a small window. I would get a cheap shop light from walmart or lowe's, find some 6.7k bulbs, and run them about 6 hours a day. That will be low cost, and shouldn't be enough light to cause you nuisance algae issues, especially with the super low nutrient import. I wouldn't worry about feeding.... I'm pretty sure your pod population, as well as snails, mysis, and other beneficial critters will make do with what they can find on the rock. I would do water changes at least every other week, to keep parameters stable for good steady coralline growth, but other than that, it should pretty much take care of itself.

[cdbias2]

I'm not such a huge fan of coralline algae, it has nothing to do with curing or seeding and will come with time.
I think the seeding/curing in the dark method is the new prefered method of pest removal if you have the time.

[scolley]

shmax - Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like solid advice... but recognizing that I'm a newbie, I'm not really interested in blazing new trails yet. I'd rather stick to tried and true methods starting out. And what I'm not hearing is "I did...", or "Most people prefer... ", which is what I'm looking for.

Originally posted by cdbias2
...I think the seeding/curing in the dark method is the new prefered method of pest removal if you have the time.

THAT"S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR! Thanks cdbias. Indicators that people actually do this!

Can someone point me to somewhere where doing this - as in people that have done it - and are discussing their techniques?

Thanks!

[scolley]

This is starting to look like a topic that is best answered out of the "Newbie Forum", so I've raised a new thread to continue this discussion here.

[cdbias2]

This method is called "cooking rock" instead of curing rock. Do a search.

[sciknen]

Marco Rocks is the way the go..Cheap dry rock that you can buy cured too

[cdbias2]

All dry/base rock is not equal.

[scolley]

cdbias2 - Thanks for the advice. I've read up on "cooking", which is not at all what I'm trying to do. I'm a fiend for the search function, and spend hours with it before even contemplating starting a thread. It's just forum courtesy.

As far as I've seen the real objective of cooking is to take live rock and cleanse it of nutrients clogging its surfaces so that it becomes usable again. Granted, there is the seeding after it's been "cooked", but that's not cooking. Though it could be that some of the "cooking" threads go beyond cooking and go into seeding, or even "culturing" - which is what I'm really interested in. So I will look further. Thank you.

And thanks for the heads-up on the dry rock! All of the dry rock I've picked up is comparable to what is in the picture.

[Rustylugnuts]

When I got my rock I did a few rounds of ro/di soaking to leach out what was left over from dieoff before beginning the cure. I had scum floating on top for the 1st 3 100% wc's. Right now I have about 25 lbs of eco rox with 10 lbs of cured LR in a 20 long with 20 w of normal output florescent lighting, an aquaclear 50 and a heater. For water changes I use old water from WC's from the display. For the 1st month I didn't use any lighting and the 2nd month I only got a light dusting of diatoms. Now I'm at the end of the 2nd month and the diatoms are fading with little spots of coralline starting to spread. I would have moved em to the display by now but since I'll be moving in 3 weeks I figured I'd wait till I set up the next tank at the new place.