Still not getting the refugium thing

mikerunkle · 05/30/2009, 10:07 AM

Hey gang,
I'm still not getting the point of a refugium in the sump in place of bio-balls and other filtration.
If I've got live rock and a DSB in my display tank, what is the extra pound or two of LR and square foot of sand going to do that the rock and sand in the main tank doesn't do? What's so different about this small pile in the sump?
Thanks

byrdman81 · 05/30/2009, 10:08 AM

Its a place to grow macro algae and a safe place for animals like pods to reproduce.

Electrobes · 05/30/2009, 10:25 AM

A good place to start...

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aqu...a/aa041400.htm

crvz · 05/30/2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikerunkle
If I've got live rock and a DSB in my display tank, what is the extra pound or two of LR and square foot of sand going to do that the rock and sand in the main tank doesn't do?

Almost nothing. It's a good place to grow pods or other critters that would be eaten up in a display, and it can be a convenient place to grow/harvest macro algae, but it does not add much of anything to the biological filtration of the tank. Especially if it's only a small percentage of the overall mass of live sand/live rock.

redfishsc · 05/30/2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikerunkle
what is the extra pound or two of LR and square foot of sand going to do that the rock and sand in the main tank doesn't do? What's so different about this small pile in the sump?
Thanks

Well, the way you describe it, it's really only useful for isolating fish or other animals who have been bullied, are bullied, or need a slow intro to the system.

Otherwise, most every refugium I've seen was really more of an algae factory---- put a 26W CF light over it (6500K) and grow macroalgae and chaetomorphic---- for nutrient export. The stuff also grows nutty amounts of amphipods and copepods ( = fish and coral food)

ReefWreak · 05/30/2009, 10:45 AM

It really is mostly useful for isolating other animals, sort of an in-tank QT or something. He's right about the biological filtration.

They do grow algae, but the effect of a sand bed and rock in a sump is negligible at best, at worst, it's another place for those items to be come nutrient sinks, to further add biological waste to the system down the road.

It's also very helpful to have a sump for increased water capacity, to have the system be more stable, and it's where most of us hide our equipment (Skimmer, calcium reactor, phosban rector, zeo reactor, heaters, etc)

The nutrient exporting qualities of algae are indeed worth having, much more so than the sand and rocks. That I recommend. Expecting your refugium to provide the tank with amphipods and copepods in large enough quantities to make a difference in your fishes diets? Definitely no.

stumpovrtyme · 05/30/2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefWreak
It really is mostly useful for isolating other animals
Expecting your refugium to provide the tank with amphipods and copepods in large enough quantities to make a difference in your fishes diets? Definitely no.

I have to disagree with the pod thing to some extent. Mine has supported my manadrin/scooter/ and a flame who eat only amphs./copes. I have never seen them eat anything I feed unless its the amph/copes I pull out of my 20g fuge. But as for larger fish no they would starve if that was there only food.

I do know it doesnt work like that for most.
Sorry for the message cut down. Awsome advice!

DaveMorris · 05/30/2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stumpovrtyme
I have to disagree with the pod thing to some extent. Mine has supported my manadrin/scooter/ and a flame who eat only amphs./copes. I have never seen them eat anything I feed unless its the amph/copes I pull out of my 20g fuge. But as for larger fish no they would starve if that was there only food.

I do know it doesnt work like that for most.
Sorry for the message cut down. Awsome advice!

The whole point of a refugium lies in the name: refugium A place of refuge and safety. Pods can grow and multiply, macro algea can grow and multiply, all sorts of critters can have a safe haven. Away from fish or inverts that would eat them as soon as they saw them. I have a 300g display tank with a 60g refugium and yes, it does produce a ton of pods for my two mandarins. I also have mangroves in it and tons of macros that I wouldn't be able to grow if I only had a display tank and sump. Having a little 10" x 10" section of your sump with some sand and some rock in it is not what I would call a refugium.

jasert39 · 05/30/2009, 09:22 PM

the algea that you grow in the refugium uses up some or all of the nutrients that could lead to algea in the display tank.

stumpovrtyme · 05/30/2009, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DaveMorris
The whole point of a refugium lies in the name: refugium A place of refuge and safety. Pods can grow and multiply, macro algea can grow and multiply, all sorts of critters can have a safe haven. Away from fish or inverts that would eat them as soon as they saw them. I have a 300g display tank with a 60g refugium and yes, it does produce a ton of pods for my two mandarins. I also have mangroves in it and tons of macros that I wouldn't be able to grow if I only had a display tank and sump. Having a little 10" x 10" section of your sump with some sand and some rock in it is not what I would call a refugium. [/QUO

I agree

05/30/2009, 10:07 AM	#1
mikerunkle Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 32	Still not getting the refugium thing Hey gang, I'm still not getting the point of a refugium in the sump in place of bio-balls and other filtration. If I've got live rock and a DSB in my display tank, what is the extra pound or two of LR and square foot of sand going to do that the rock and sand in the main tank doesn't do? What's so different about this small pile in the sump? Thanks

05/30/2009, 10:08 AM	#2
byrdman81 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Louisville,Ky Posts: 543	Its a place to grow macro algae and a safe place for animals like pods to reproduce. __________________ Working on 20L setup. Drilled bottom center custom overflow,Tunze 9002 skimmer, mag 5 return. Custom built cabinet to match the kitchen cabinets. AI led lighting Current Tank Info: 20 long nano currently working on 40 Breeder

05/30/2009, 10:25 AM	#3
Electrobes Montipora type guy Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 2,945	A good place to start... http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aqu...a/aa041400.htm __________________ Christian Current Tank Info: 100G Half Cylinder

05/30/2009, 09:22 PM	#9
jasert39 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: PA Posts: 759	the algea that you grow in the refugium uses up some or all of the nutrients that could lead to algea in the display tank. __________________ Trust the Process Current Tank Info: 75 gallon RR Display, 30 gallon sump, SRO INT1000, Jebao CP9's, Marsaqua LEDS.

05/30/2009, 09:33 PM	#10
stumpovrtyme Reef Junkie Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buckeye State(Lancaster,Ohio) Posts: 489	[QUOTE]Originally posted by DaveMorris The whole point of a refugium lies in the name: refugium A place of refuge and safety. Pods can grow and multiply, macro algea can grow and multiply, all sorts of critters can have a safe haven. Away from fish or inverts that would eat them as soon as they saw them. I have a 300g display tank with a 60g refugium and yes, it does produce a ton of pods for my two mandarins. I also have mangroves in it and tons of macros that I wouldn't be able to grow if I only had a display tank and sump. Having a little 10" x 10" section of your sump with some sand and some rock in it is not what I would call a refugium. [/QUO I agree __________________ If everyone with a reef traded a frag would you have to buy any? My spelling sucks I know! Im a reefer not a teacher! Current Tank Info: 90 g. display, 55 g. planted tank/fuge,and 30g. sump

05/30/2009, 10:45 AM	#6
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	It really is mostly useful for isolating other animals, sort of an in-tank QT or something. He's right about the biological filtration. They do grow algae, but the effect of a sand bed and rock in a sump is negligible at best, at worst, it's another place for those items to be come nutrient sinks, to further add biological waste to the system down the road. It's also very helpful to have a sump for increased water capacity, to have the system be more stable, and it's where most of us hide our equipment (Skimmer, calcium reactor, phosban rector, zeo reactor, heaters, etc) The nutrient exporting qualities of algae are indeed worth having, much more so than the sand and rocks. That I recommend. Expecting your refugium to provide the tank with amphipods and copepods in large enough quantities to make a difference in your fishes diets? Definitely no.