why doesn't my rock have anything?

Lyotim88 · 06/07/2009, 12:42 AM

So i've had my LR for about 2 months now, it's fiji premium from live aquaria but there has been nothing live about it. I went through a cycle, got/have algae blooms, everything seems normal. How long does it usually take for hitchhikers to emerge? I have 67 lbs of it, is it really possible i got nothing? Thanks

CU kills · 06/07/2009, 12:54 AM

Sorry to say but yes it's possible. Lots of the rock you buy from vendors etc has been harvested, dried, powerwashed, than placed in a tank with a little seed rock and allowed to cure. Many times you will only get pods. I got rock from TampaBaySaltwater.com. He ships beautiful rock that many times was picked off the ocean floor the day before. He rents a parcel and drops rock and then harvest it as needed. Check out their forum on here.

murfman · 06/07/2009, 01:17 AM

Lyotim, what do you mean by live? Live rock means that the rock has the bacteria needed to perform the nitrogen cycle and not necessarily have a lot of hitchhikers that will grow on it. You will find that if the rock is truely live, that your cycle will be minimal or non existant.

cdbias2 · 06/07/2009, 04:02 AM

Hitchhickers are normally a bad thing anyway. Count your blessings.

sebrofjr · 06/07/2009, 07:58 AM

I'm going through the same thing with my figi & tonga branch rock. After reading everything about Mantis Shrimp and Aipstasia here. Im very glad there wasn't any hitchhikers. Now I can control what goes into my tank.

jus10kase · 06/07/2009, 08:01 AM

Don`t dis all the hitchhikers, there`s probably more good than bad. There was this redhead in Tenn........

leafreef · 06/07/2009, 09:44 AM

agree with cdbias2 sometimes hitchhikers not a good thing!!!

dpbement · 06/07/2009, 10:40 PM

LOL, jus10kase.......my rock also was clean which at first disappointed me. But then I saw others' tanks with aptasia, bristle worms, and other assorted pests and it wasn't so bad.

steve70 · 06/07/2009, 10:52 PM

Give it time! It took mine about 8 to 10 months before worms and all sorts of critters to started showing up. sometime at 2 or 3 aclock in the morning take a dim flash light (I use a small LED flash light, the kind you have to shake to charge )and check your tank you'll be amazed.

Whys · 06/08/2009, 12:28 AM

Bristle worms aren't bad, they're good.

I consider it a shame that there's nothing crawling on the rock but pods. Sure, there are a number of bad hitchhikers, but that's nothing compared to the beneficial biodiversity you get from good truly live rock. If all we wanted was bacteria, we could accomplish that many different ways. The point of liverock is the biodiversity, IMO.

I think if some of you knew what the no longer available Hawaiian liverock used to look like, you would understand. That stuff was absolutely loaded with great hitchhikers and rarely an aiptasia. Now, you're lucky to find a single feather duster.

There could be more hitchhikers on your "live" rock than you realize. A number of the good things are really tiny, like mysis shrimp and ostracods, but if you don't see a single baby star then your rock is in poor shape, IMO.

It's no wonder really. I feel like so many in this hobby have begun to miss the point of liverock as the reefs become less healthy and more aiptasia ridden. Now everyone regularly talks of power washing the rock, soaks in hyposalinity or fresh water, and so called "cooking" the rocks to remove just about everything that actually remains on these poor abused chunks of reef. Personally, I like to buy live rock for the LIVE qualities. Perhaps that's just me.

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 01:43 PM

Well you have biodiversity on one hand and you have the practice of dipping and treating every frag before it enters your tank.
The choice is yours.
Lyotim88 - you just have to sort through some of this information.
Isn't RC wonderful!

Tommy5000 · 06/08/2009, 01:58 PM

" I senator John Jackson think the new 3 cent tax goes to far"...
"Well I senator Jack Johnson think the new 3 cent tax goes not to far enough"

can't we all just get along?.....yeah i didn't think so lol

muddysr5 · 06/08/2009, 02:06 PM

I think the hitchhikers make things interesting. It's neat to find things that you didn't buy in your tank! I would have to agree with Whys - so much liverock is abused and it is a shame. Soon, the only "liverock" that exists will only be in our memories.

rustyjames · 06/08/2009, 02:12 PM

Whys I agree with you, somtimes you have to take the good with the bad to achieve the desired results. The first batch of rock I bought had nothing but a little corraline, the sceond batch had bristle worms, brittle stars and countless benefical other things. I think it's small price to pay. I dip every frag that enters my tank regardless.

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 02:27 PM

Then why dip frags?

Captinshinyside · 06/08/2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy5000
" I senator John Jackson think the new 3 cent tax goes to far"...
"Well I senator Jack Johnson think the new 3 cent tax goes not to far enough"

can't we all just get along?.....yeah i didn't think so lol

Nice Futurama flash back! well played sir

Superstretch18 · 06/08/2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdbias2
Then why dip frags?

Much more likely that an animal that exclusively consumes a single type of coral are going to be found on that coral (i.e. redbugs, AEFW's, Montipora eating nudis, pretty much any other nudi, etc.). Any of these pests that are on the liverock when you are cycling will probably not live to see the first coral in the tank.

Now, if you are adding fresh live rock to an established tank...

IMO, I love the biodiversity that you get with good live rock. It's kind of a shame that with a tank full of corals, I'm looking in the sand to see what's digging around...

WhoDey64 · 06/08/2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

It's no wonder really. I feel like so many in this hobby have begun to miss the point of liverock as the reefs become less healthy and more aiptasia ridden. Now everyone regularly talks of power washing the rock, soaks in hyposalinity or fresh water, and so called "cooking" the rocks to remove just about everything that actually remains on these poor abused chunks of reef. Personally, I like to buy live rock for the LIVE qualities. Perhaps that's just me.

[/B]

Could not have said this better myself. To see the way that nice live rock is stripped down, washed and bleached to dead rock makes me wonder why someone would do that to the reef when they knew they were just going to kill it. Buy quarry rock if that is what you really want and leave the live rock in the ocean where its serving its purpose or at the very least go to a company that is dumping quarry rock offshore for later cultivation.

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 03:22 PM

Yeah, this stuff is terrible. LOL!

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 03:27 PM

That's not quarry rock. I dont trust that stuff. Florida was also the #1 phosphate mining state 30 years ago when they allowed that stuff in detergents. I think people are headed for trouble with Florida quarry rock.

WhoDey64 · 06/08/2009, 04:04 PM

I use the term quarry rock to mean rock not pulled from the reef or rubble zones. It can be pulled from many dry sources, there is a thread on here somewhere about a guy pulling his from the desert floor or something like that, but you understand what I mean.

WhoDey64 · 06/08/2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdbias2
Yeah, this stuff is terrible. LOL!

Its not the appearance of the rock that is my concern, its the reasoning and logic of it all the escapes me.

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 04:22 PM

WhoDey64
I know what you mean. Quarry rock is mined on land. So is phosphate, in the same state.

Appearance is a concern.

Pest free.

Superstretch18 · 06/08/2009, 05:27 PM

Just because phosphate is mined in Florida doesn't mean that the entire state if filled with phosphate. Same way that they mine uranium in Arizona, but that doesn't mean that the entire state is radioactive. Phosphate is mined from soil; reef rock is mined from limestone. FYI, there are pretty simple tests readily available that measure phosphates...

In some ways, reef keeping is like a science. In other ways it's like a religion. Some facts are hard and fast, and there's no getting around them. Other facts are not really facts at all and it depends on what you believe. This is one of those cases. I don't think that either way is absolute.

Personally, one of the things I really enjoy about my tank is the misc. life that just pops out of the sand and rock, but that's just IMHO...

cdbias2 · 06/08/2009, 05:54 PM

I have no idea of the rock strata in Florida. It can't all be phosphate.
Central FL, Lakeland area is what I'm familiar with.

06/07/2009, 12:54 AM	#2
CU kills Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 104	Sorry to say but yes it's possible. Lots of the rock you buy from vendors etc has been harvested, dried, powerwashed, than placed in a tank with a little seed rock and allowed to cure. Many times you will only get pods. I got rock from TampaBaySaltwater.com. He ships beautiful rock that many times was picked off the ocean floor the day before. He rents a parcel and drops rock and then harvest it as needed. Check out their forum on here. __________________ Life is the only STD that is 100% fatal. Current Tank Info: 75lbs LR +or- a few LBS, 50lbs of LS, 20 Dwarf Cerith snails, 15 Nerite snails, 10 Nassarious snails, 2 Ninja star snails, 1 28+ polyp zoa colony, 1 Green Galxia, 1 Orange Cap Montipora, 1 Red Mangrove, 3 Yellow Tail Damsels, 1 True Perc Clown.

06/07/2009, 08:01 AM	#6
jus10kase Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Daytona Beach Fl Posts: 227	Don`t dis all the hitchhikers, there`s probably more good than bad. There was this redhead in Tenn........ __________________ If you walked a mile in my shoes........ I wouldn`t want them back! Current Tank Info: 55g since June 06 now 120g, since maybe 09.

06/07/2009, 09:44 AM	#7
leafreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 76	agree with cdbias2 sometimes hitchhikers not a good thing!!! __________________ :bounce1: Current Tank Info: 120 reef tank

06/07/2009, 10:52 PM	#9
steve70 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Williamsburg, VA. USA Posts: 165	Give it time! It took mine about 8 to 10 months before worms and all sorts of critters to started showing up. sometime at 2 or 3 aclock in the morning take a dim flash light (I use a small LED flash light, the kind you have to shake to charge )and check your tank you'll be amazed. __________________ I have a vision, and now I am broke! You are water keeping not occupant keeping! _____________________ Steve Current Tank Info: 55 gallon w/216w t5 Nova extreme lights 10gal sump/refugium. 2 Koralia #2's & 1 #1

06/08/2009, 02:06 PM	#13
muddysr5 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Crystal Lake, IL Posts: 207	I think the hitchhikers make things interesting. It's neat to find things that you didn't buy in your tank! I would have to agree with Whys - so much liverock is abused and it is a shame. Soon, the only "liverock" that exists will only be in our memories. __________________ Hindsight is 20/20. Current Tank Info: 300 gal, 125 gal, 125 sump

06/07/2009, 12:42 AM	#1
Lyotim88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 155	why doesn't my rock have anything? So i've had my LR for about 2 months now, it's fiji premium from live aquaria but there has been nothing live about it. I went through a cycle, got/have algae blooms, everything seems normal. How long does it usually take for hitchhikers to emerge? I have 67 lbs of it, is it really possible i got nothing? Thanks

06/07/2009, 01:17 AM	#3
murfman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 4,670	Lyotim, what do you mean by live? Live rock means that the rock has the bacteria needed to perform the nitrogen cycle and not necessarily have a lot of hitchhikers that will grow on it. You will find that if the rock is truely live, that your cycle will be minimal or non existant.

06/07/2009, 04:02 AM	#4
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Hitchhickers are normally a bad thing anyway. Count your blessings.

06/07/2009, 07:58 AM	#5
sebrofjr Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Moncton, NB, Canada Posts: 228	I'm going through the same thing with my figi & tonga branch rock. After reading everything about Mantis Shrimp and Aipstasia here. Im very glad there wasn't any hitchhikers. Now I can control what goes into my tank.

06/07/2009, 10:40 PM	#8
dpbement Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 57	LOL, jus10kase.......my rock also was clean which at first disappointed me. But then I saw others' tanks with aptasia, bristle worms, and other assorted pests and it wasn't so bad.

06/08/2009, 12:28 AM	#10
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Bristle worms aren't bad, they're good. I consider it a shame that there's nothing crawling on the rock but pods. Sure, there are a number of bad hitchhikers, but that's nothing compared to the beneficial biodiversity you get from good truly live rock. If all we wanted was bacteria, we could accomplish that many different ways. The point of liverock is the biodiversity, IMO. I think if some of you knew what the no longer available Hawaiian liverock used to look like, you would understand. That stuff was absolutely loaded with great hitchhikers and rarely an aiptasia. Now, you're lucky to find a single feather duster. There could be more hitchhikers on your "live" rock than you realize. A number of the good things are really tiny, like mysis shrimp and ostracods, but if you don't see a single baby star then your rock is in poor shape, IMO. It's no wonder really. I feel like so many in this hobby have begun to miss the point of liverock as the reefs become less healthy and more aiptasia ridden. Now everyone regularly talks of power washing the rock, soaks in hyposalinity or fresh water, and so called "cooking" the rocks to remove just about everything that actually remains on these poor abused chunks of reef. Personally, I like to buy live rock for the LIVE qualities. Perhaps that's just me.

06/08/2009, 01:43 PM	#11
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Well you have biodiversity on one hand and you have the practice of dipping and treating every frag before it enters your tank. The choice is yours. Lyotim88 - you just have to sort through some of this information. Isn't RC wonderful!

06/08/2009, 01:58 PM	#12
Tommy5000 Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Redlands, Southern California Posts: 14	" I senator John Jackson think the new 3 cent tax goes to far"... "Well I senator Jack Johnson think the new 3 cent tax goes not to far enough" can't we all just get along?.....yeah i didn't think so lol

06/08/2009, 02:12 PM	#14
rustyjames EMT-B Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 879	Whys I agree with you, somtimes you have to take the good with the bad to achieve the desired results. The first batch of rock I bought had nothing but a little corraline, the sceond batch had bristle worms, brittle stars and countless benefical other things. I think it's small price to pay. I dip every frag that enters my tank regardless. __________________ I see your Schwartz is as big as mine. Current Tank Info: 20 long

06/08/2009, 02:27 PM	#15
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Then why dip frags?

06/08/2009, 03:22 PM	#19
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Yeah, this stuff is terrible. LOL!

06/08/2009, 03:27 PM	#20
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	That's not quarry rock. I dont trust that stuff. Florida was also the #1 phosphate mining state 30 years ago when they allowed that stuff in detergents. I think people are headed for trouble with Florida quarry rock.

06/08/2009, 04:04 PM	#21
WhoDey64 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,311	I use the term quarry rock to mean rock not pulled from the reef or rubble zones. It can be pulled from many dry sources, there is a thread on here somewhere about a guy pulling his from the desert floor or something like that, but you understand what I mean. __________________ My name is Robert and I am addicted to Nitrates.

06/08/2009, 04:22 PM	#23
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	WhoDey64 I know what you mean. Quarry rock is mined on land. So is phosphate, in the same state. Appearance is a concern. Pest free.

06/08/2009, 05:27 PM	#24
Superstretch18 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 571	Just because phosphate is mined in Florida doesn't mean that the entire state if filled with phosphate. Same way that they mine uranium in Arizona, but that doesn't mean that the entire state is radioactive. Phosphate is mined from soil; reef rock is mined from limestone. FYI, there are pretty simple tests readily available that measure phosphates... In some ways, reef keeping is like a science. In other ways it's like a religion. Some facts are hard and fast, and there's no getting around them. Other facts are not really facts at all and it depends on what you believe. This is one of those cases. I don't think that either way is absolute. Personally, one of the things I really enjoy about my tank is the misc. life that just pops out of the sand and rock, but that's just IMHO... __________________ -Shaun- ...like making a pen that works in space. Yes, you spent $1 billion NASA and got it to work, good job. But totally impractical when the Russians spent a few cents and simply used pencils... Current Tank Info: TBD

06/08/2009, 05:54 PM	#25
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	I have no idea of the rock strata in Florida. It can't all be phosphate. Central FL, Lakeland area is what I'm familiar with.