Whats the consensus on going Bare Bottom to a Sandbed

bj32482 · 07/30/2009, 11:18 AM

I have a 180g tank with lots of flow, and 175 metal halides. My original tank had sand, but I pulled it out during cycling because it looked nasty. (rookie mistake) I have since only ran bare bottom tanks and have had great luck, but I am starting to miss the look of the sand. Is this a bad idea?

Anyone ever done this?
I usually see people asking questions about removing sand...

Logzor · 07/30/2009, 11:26 AM

A number of people have added sand back into their display. Check in the SPS forum. I know there were a couple thread on it there.

I would start out with fresh clean sand and use a long funnel and tube to deposit it at the bottom of your tank.

You may encountercloudy water due to particles in the sand and probably have issues adjusting the flow. You may end up creating a big sandstorm. I would shoot for the large grain size sand.

Lightsluvr · 07/30/2009, 11:26 AM

If you're concerned about a cycle, I would turn off all pumps and add a bag of WELL-RINSED dry sand - a few quarts at a time, every day, until you are pleased with the coverage. I used a large zip-loc bag with a corner cut out to place it where I wanted and minimize spreading sand all over the live rock. It will still cloud up your tank, but should clear up within 24 hours. If you take your time putting it in, and if you have otherwise good filtration, you should avoid a measurable cycle,

I recommend CaribSea Seaflor select dry sand... large enough particles not to create a sandstorm, even with excellent flow..

JME

LL

ReefWreak · 07/30/2009, 11:31 AM

You shouldn't have a cycle from dry sand at all... There is nothing live (or now dead and rotting) in it to cause a cycle.

I would stick with a shallow sand bed. There have been some research articles posted around about how the nitrogen cycle is really completed only in 2-3" of sand, and anything else is just excess. I know in my tank I've had between 2-3" of sand since the beginning, and even without a skimmer I never had algae or nitrate problems, but there could be a million other reasons for that happening. If I were going from barebottom to sandbed, I would make it shallow. I hate in-tank DSBs.

bj32482 · 07/30/2009, 11:34 AM

I am actually okay with pulling the rock out and transferring it to a holding tank for a day. I do this about twice a year during big water changes. Whats a good depth? I don't really want a super deep bed, but I would like to be able to keep fish that burrow.

Lightsluvr · 07/30/2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bj32482
I am actually okay with pulling the rock out and transferring it to a holding tank for a day. I do this about twice a year during big water changes. Whats a good depth? I don't really want a super deep bed, but I would like to be able to keep fish that burrow.

As posted above, 2-3" is a good depth - looks nice and gives sand-dwelling CUC enough habitat to flourish. You don't want to overlook a good sand-sifting goby after the sand matures a little...

LL

bj32482 · 07/30/2009, 11:47 AM

Is this the stuff that you are recommending?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753226

ReefWreak · 07/30/2009, 11:59 AM

Also, I wouldn't recommend pulling the rock out to put the sand bed in. You want the rocks on the bottom, and then to have the sand go in around the rocks. The reason for this is that if/when you have a sand digging creature, you don't want them removing the sand around a rock, and then that rock slipping down, and it causing a rockslide.

discocarp · 07/30/2009, 12:22 PM

I was BB on my 125g reef. Went shallow sandbed on my 265g. Now its 18 months later and I'm ripping it out and going back to BB. Its not a "bad" idea, but I'd make sure you want it! Pulling the sand back out was a royal pain, and I was kicking myself for not just going BB again.

herostar · 07/30/2009, 12:57 PM

Rookie mistake is to not take into account the volume of water that the sand will displace... don't want to have an overflow to the floor!

garrettm85 · 07/30/2009, 01:06 PM

A 2-3 inch sandbed is perfect for a display imo. I really like the look of the seaflow special grade dry sand. I use it in 5/6th of my prop tanks and use it in my display. It is great stuff! I would do a good rinse or two to get out all of the dust like particles. If it were me, I would use lightsluvr suggestion of using a ziplock bag to distribute the sand around the rocks and in areas that you like. I have a ton of flow in my tank and though it can occassionally displace some of the sand, for the most part, and once adjusted the sand works out quite well. There are just so many more possible creatures and benefits to having a nice shallow sandbed, I would never go without.

Garrett

Toddrtrex · 07/30/2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bj32482
Is this the stuff that you are recommending?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753226

That is the stuff that I have in all of my tanks.

And I agree with "ReefWreak" about not pulling the rocks, if you plan on having any burrowing critters.

SeanT · 07/30/2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bj32482
Whats the consensus on going Bare Bottom to a Sandbed

There is none.

Do what makes you happy.

evsalty · 07/30/2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toddrtrex
That is the stuff that I have in all of my tanks.

And I agree with "ReefWreak" about not pulling the rocks, if you plan on having any burrowing critters.

This stuff is great and if you order enough (3 bags) you pay only $6 for shipping.

Toddrtrex · 07/30/2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evsalty
This stuff is great and if you order enough (3 bags) you pay only $6 for shipping.

I didn't even look at the price, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper then my LFS. Though the last time I bought some I was in the middle of setting up a new tank, and couldn't wait (( I could have, but didn't want to )) for shipping.

evsalty · 07/30/2009, 02:54 PM

I got mine in two days.

Toddrtrex · 07/30/2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evsalty
I got mine in two days.

That is actually pretty good. It is weird, I had put off setting up that tank for a couple of weeks, and once I started it it "had" to be done in one day --- I am an idiot sometimes.

evsalty · 07/30/2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toddrtrex
I am an idiot sometimes.

We will keep that between us....

saf1 · 07/30/2009, 03:09 PM

Someone said it best - there really isn't a consensus per say. Its preference. If you like the look then do it. Several gave some good tips - the best two being amount of sand vs. water displacement. That is huge.

Second is rocks sand and bottom vs elevating the rocks a tick above the sand for water movement, etc.

Depth of bed depends on taste as far as I'm concerned. I run a 100 gallon with over 200 lbs of sand. So my bed runs anywhere from 4 to 6" depending on which side of tank I'm looking at, etc. It went in first and I let it settle down before I added rocks, etc. During this time I put in some dead shrimp and other food to help build up the initial cycle.

Once it was cool - live rock went in after it cycled during the same time in a brute container. Put them both in then added a couple fish and it was downhill from there. After which I ordered a sand bed starter kit from ipsf which did wonders. Snails, mini sea stars, etc.

Only other thing I could think of which was important to me is not to get fish that eat your sand bed creatures. The point of having a bed in the first place is to help with the life cycle of the tank, etc. Adding something that eats it sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention their population regrowth may not be able to keep up. Sand sifting gobies, mandrians, etc - bad choices in my opinion.

Cucumbers are good. Mini-stars, Micro hermits, queen conarcs(sp), and a few other things are also really good. You can get sand movement and creatures to move it which are sand bed friendly which to me is a safer bet.

Hope this helps.

biecacka · 07/30/2009, 03:47 PM

question? BB on a softy tank. i know BB typically require high flow and softy tanks typically require less flow? ideas?

07/30/2009, 11:18 AM	#1
bj32482 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: benton, ky Posts: 974	Whats the consensus on going Bare Bottom to a Sandbed I have a 180g tank with lots of flow, and 175 metal halides. My original tank had sand, but I pulled it out during cycling because it looked nasty. (rookie mistake) I have since only ran bare bottom tanks and have had great luck, but I am starting to miss the look of the sand. Is this a bad idea? Anyone ever done this? I usually see people asking questions about removing sand...

07/30/2009, 11:26 AM	#3
Lightsluvr Tangaroa to 500 gallons Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,855	Cycle? If you're concerned about a cycle, I would turn off all pumps and add a bag of WELL-RINSED dry sand - a few quarts at a time, every day, until you are pleased with the coverage. I used a large zip-loc bag with a corner cut out to place it where I wanted and minimize spreading sand all over the live rock. It will still cloud up your tank, but should clear up within 24 hours. If you take your time putting it in, and if you have otherwise good filtration, you should avoid a measurable cycle, I recommend CaribSea Seaflor select dry sand... large enough particles not to create a sandstorm, even with excellent flow.. JME LL __________________ Click on my username and select "Lightsluvr's Home Page" for a recap of our build thread - AGE Hybrid Tank in a 500G system with dedicated fish room. (Takes a few minutes for photos to load) Leave a note if you stop by... Current Tank Info: 350G AGE Hybrid reef tank. 500G+ total water volume. Three sumps for filtration. Barracuda Gold return and Hammerhead Gold closed loop pumps. DIY T5 light system on rails. MP40W x3 to supplement closed loop. 130G Water management system.

07/30/2009, 12:57 PM	#10
herostar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,024	Rookie mistake is to not take into account the volume of water that the sand will displace... don't want to have an overflow to the floor! __________________ Do a good turn daily. Current Tank Info: 58g Oceanic (Est. 2007)

07/30/2009, 01:06 PM	#11
garrettm85 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 138	A 2-3 inch sandbed is perfect for a display imo. I really like the look of the seaflow special grade dry sand. I use it in 5/6th of my prop tanks and use it in my display. It is great stuff! I would do a good rinse or two to get out all of the dust like particles. If it were me, I would use lightsluvr suggestion of using a ziplock bag to distribute the sand around the rocks and in areas that you like. I have a ton of flow in my tank and though it can occassionally displace some of the sand, for the most part, and once adjusted the sand works out quite well. There are just so many more possible creatures and benefits to having a nice shallow sandbed, I would never go without. Garrett __________________ 90g display with inline prop system.

07/30/2009, 03:09 PM	#19
saf1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: California Posts: 2,259	Someone said it best - there really isn't a consensus per say. Its preference. If you like the look then do it. Several gave some good tips - the best two being amount of sand vs. water displacement. That is huge. Second is rocks sand and bottom vs elevating the rocks a tick above the sand for water movement, etc. Depth of bed depends on taste as far as I'm concerned. I run a 100 gallon with over 200 lbs of sand. So my bed runs anywhere from 4 to 6" depending on which side of tank I'm looking at, etc. It went in first and I let it settle down before I added rocks, etc. During this time I put in some dead shrimp and other food to help build up the initial cycle. Once it was cool - live rock went in after it cycled during the same time in a brute container. Put them both in then added a couple fish and it was downhill from there. After which I ordered a sand bed starter kit from ipsf which did wonders. Snails, mini sea stars, etc. Only other thing I could think of which was important to me is not to get fish that eat your sand bed creatures. The point of having a bed in the first place is to help with the life cycle of the tank, etc. Adding something that eats it sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention their population regrowth may not be able to keep up. Sand sifting gobies, mandrians, etc - bad choices in my opinion. Cucumbers are good. Mini-stars, Micro hermits, queen conarcs(sp), and a few other things are also really good. You can get sand movement and creatures to move it which are sand bed friendly which to me is a safer bet. Hope this helps. __________________ -saf1 Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef

07/30/2009, 11:26 AM	#2
Logzor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kenwood, Ohio Posts: 4,073	A number of people have added sand back into their display. Check in the SPS forum. I know there were a couple thread on it there. I would start out with fresh clean sand and use a long funnel and tube to deposit it at the bottom of your tank. You may encountercloudy water due to particles in the sand and probably have issues adjusting the flow. You may end up creating a big sandstorm. I would shoot for the large grain size sand.

07/30/2009, 11:31 AM	#4
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	You shouldn't have a cycle from dry sand at all... There is nothing live (or now dead and rotting) in it to cause a cycle. I would stick with a shallow sand bed. There have been some research articles posted around about how the nitrogen cycle is really completed only in 2-3" of sand, and anything else is just excess. I know in my tank I've had between 2-3" of sand since the beginning, and even without a skimmer I never had algae or nitrate problems, but there could be a million other reasons for that happening. If I were going from barebottom to sandbed, I would make it shallow. I hate in-tank DSBs.

07/30/2009, 11:34 AM	#5
bj32482 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: benton, ky Posts: 974	I am actually okay with pulling the rock out and transferring it to a holding tank for a day. I do this about twice a year during big water changes. Whats a good depth? I don't really want a super deep bed, but I would like to be able to keep fish that burrow.

07/30/2009, 11:47 AM	#7
bj32482 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: benton, ky Posts: 974	Is this the stuff that you are recommending? http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753226

07/30/2009, 11:59 AM	#8
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	Also, I wouldn't recommend pulling the rock out to put the sand bed in. You want the rocks on the bottom, and then to have the sand go in around the rocks. The reason for this is that if/when you have a sand digging creature, you don't want them removing the sand around a rock, and then that rock slipping down, and it causing a rockslide.

07/30/2009, 12:22 PM	#9
discocarp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 2,707	I was BB on my 125g reef. Went shallow sandbed on my 265g. Now its 18 months later and I'm ripping it out and going back to BB. Its not a "bad" idea, but I'd make sure you want it! Pulling the sand back out was a royal pain, and I was kicking myself for not just going BB again.

07/30/2009, 02:54 PM	#16
evsalty hmmmmmm Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NW Mesa, AZ Posts: 3,531	I got mine in two days.

07/30/2009, 03:47 PM	#20
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	question? BB on a softy tank. i know BB typically require high flow and softy tanks typically require less flow? ideas?