New to SW/reef

dirtStar · 10/22/2009, 10:10 PM

Hello,

I am getting a 75 gal setup tomorrow. It is up and running right now.
Going to tear down and setup all in one day, hopefully.

This will be my first Reef tank, so I am sure I will have many question for all the XP'ers out there.

I have had many, over 15 FW tanks at one time, about 5 yrs ago, got rid of em all, then setup fresh with a 10gal for the kiddies.
Well, needless to say, I am ready to dive into SW, after hungering for it for manymany yrs.

I have a question to start:

What would be your thoughts about the live sand?
Some are saying the travel will release toxins, and some say it wont matter.

Should I start with 50/50 old new?
100% new with a few lbs seed
100% old
or wash the old and reseed with a few pounds of the old and add in a few (20) extra new (my pick)

Thanks,
Rob

Playa-1 · 10/22/2009, 10:53 PM

Hi Rob,
I would start with new sand and just use a couple of cups from a well maintained established tank to seed the new sand bed.

jenjen · 10/22/2009, 11:40 PM

+1
go with new sand, and seed with a couple of scoops of the old sand.

dirtStar · 10/22/2009, 11:49 PM

Would all the live rock be able to handle the bioload of the fish and sorts?

about 100+ live rock with corals.

Thanks
Rob

PRDubois · 10/23/2009, 12:05 AM

To Reef Central
Glad to see you This is a good place to start!
--------------------------------------------------------------

There are two ways to do it and both will work well:
Ether way, take 8 cups of the old sand from the top of the sandbed and put in a bucket cofered with salt water for seeding.

1 - Buy new dry sand and seed with the 8 cups you saved.

2 - Put old sand in 5 gal buckets. Rinse with garden hose by turning it on full and pushing the tip of the hose to the bottom of the bucket while you stur the sand with your hand. Will smell bad and lots of nasty stuff will float out.

Keep sturing and rinsing till the water runs completly clear. Put clean sand in the moved tank and seed with the 8 cups you put aside.

-----------------------------------------------------
Ether way will probally give you cloudy water to start when you fill it. If you have a canister filter or a HOB filter you can use it to clear/polish the water.

------------------------------------------------------
Do not move tank with sand in it and keep sand & rock wet.

-----------------------------------------------------
Tank Move

Prep
1 - Get lots of 5 gal buckets and/or rubbermaid containers. Whatever you get have covers.
2 - Have about 15 to 20 gal of new SW ready.
3 - Have site for the tank at new location ready. GFI's installed etc...
4 - When moving the tank - Concentrate on moving the tank and not the other stuff.
5 - Clean out and pack anything under your tank line chemicals, junk, old equipment, etc...
6 - Have a plan and stick to it (alsohow do you want the rock arranged the same or different , decide now)

Day of move:
7 - Unplug everything
8 - Part Fill up 4 containers with some water from your tank
9 - Start removing the corals, rock, CUC and Fish into the 4 seperate containers
10 - Drain remaining water into containters leaving enough water to be just over the sand.
11 - Tear down everything and put it in your truck,van,whatever.
12 - Make sure everything is covered and drive carefully especially over speed bumps.

Get to the new house:
13 - Position the stand where you have already decided it will go. now is not the time to decide this.
14 - Place the tank, sump if you have and equipment in place.
15 - Place a dinner plate on the sand and slowly pour extra old water onto the plate. this will help with preventing a sand storm
16 - Place the rock back in the tank where you want it.
17 - Place the corals back in the tank where you want it.
18 - Put the fish in the tank
19 - Top off the water and plug everything in
20 - Water will probally be cloudy but will clear up. If you have a HOB filter like a wisper or a canister filter you can run it with filter pads and carbon to clear the water faster.

Sit back and enjoy

drywallninja · 10/23/2009, 09:22 AM

Great advice!I am dreading my tank move on sat.Everything is so happy and healthy,but it has to be done.Paul's advice was exactly what I needed to know.Thanks!!

bobparker · 10/23/2009, 10:07 AM

PRDubois, you just counterpointed yourself, if he is buying a tank already set up. "Do not move tank with sand in it and keep sand & rock wet."
"Leave water just over sand"

It's all going to have to all come out if you are buying that Tank. Follow the advice for seeding the sand and/or toss the rest.
Also a lot of people will recommend using a plate when adding water. A much better way is to take a a piece of plastic place it across the entire surface of the sand bed and add water slowly. I use a powerhead to pump in water form mixing tubs. as the tank fills the plastic will begin to float up with the surface of the water, just make sure you direct the water flow into the plastic. when nearing the top of the water line remove the plastic slowly. You'll find this works much better than a plate.
Also patience is a virtue in reef tanks, don't add your fish and coral until your perimeters are right and your water has cleared up completely. Dumping them into a tank that is all murky, cold and unstable will only send your stock into shock. They will be OK in a tubs for the night. add a small power head to create flow in the tubs. Even then they will still be better off.
No offense to some of these xperts in this forum, but copying and pasting articles that are full of disinformation will only leave a newby scratching their head and pi*%ed off because their stock dies and they end up with an empty tank.
Drywallninja, do you finish or hang? I've been in the trade for 21 years now and run tools. Being that construction is slow, I'm sure you don't want your stock dying off.

wooden_reefer · 10/23/2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtStar

Hello,

I am getting a 75 gal setup tomorrow. It is up and running right now.
Going to tear down and setup all in one day, hopefully.

This will be my first Reef tank, so I am sure I will have many question for all the XP'ers out there.

I have had many, over 15 FW tanks at one time, about 5 yrs ago, got rid of em all, then setup fresh with a 10gal for the kiddies.
Well, needless to say, I am ready to dive into SW, after hungering for it for manymany yrs.

I have a question to start:

What would be your thoughts about the live sand?
Some are saying the travel will release toxins, and some say it wont matter.

Should I start with 50/50 old new?
100% new with a few lbs seed
100% old
or wash the old and reseed with a few pounds of the old and add in a few (20) extra new (my pick)

Thanks,
Rob

You have not stated the origin of the live sand, or are you using gravel for FW for SW?

A reef tank has more requirement for filter medium than a fish-only SW tank.

For reef, your have to care about denitrification and other means of reducing nitrate. In general, this means you need live rock as the medium of filtration for the display tank, DT. (but not so for the quarantine tank for fish)

The toxins in deeper sand bed that many people refer to are primarily (perhaps not all) the products of anerobic bacterial activity. In general, the aquarist can think of two different types of anerobic bacterial activity (scientifically there are likely many classifications), one type involves protein (in food, decaying plants, fish poop etc), the other kind does not. The aquarist should avoid the former, but not the latter. The latter is responsible for denitrification. So, it is best to allow anerobioc activity and at the same time prevent as much as possible protein being incorporated into this anerobic activity spaces.

dirtStar · 10/24/2009, 07:30 AM

UPDATE:

Well, made the move.

First words: ok so far.

Took about 3 hrs to tear down.
we kept the sump all intact and drained water while pulling rock and corals.
Pulled out the 5 fish and shrimp, starfish and ground crew.

loaded everything in my shortbed pickup. I drove 3 hours back home.
The fun began.
Took about 5 hours to setup and then I was tired.

The rock + corals now have to be fine tuned for placement.

Funny thing is: the second I put in Nemo--he landed on the anemone and was
humping and fanning it. It slowly opened and he is now happy.

Turns out, that I kept about 8-10 cups of the old sand, wwashed the rest (about 50lbs or more) and put it in. All fish are looking good and I fed them just a little last night and I got the antintics hooked up.....They all came, ate, and were merry.
I got the temp up to 80F.

One thing is (shame me) For the CPR bakpak overflo, we had to cut the plumbing and when I put in a sleeve joint, I forgot to cut an extra 1/2 inch or so off, and now it dosent rest low enough to work. I have just powerheads and two heaters running in the display and the skimmer, UV, Phosban running in the sump.
I will be either plumbing new, or cutting out extra and putting in a new sleeve today.

Other than that, I will be doing all tests in a bit to report what is really going on--
last night was too tired and should have done it, but will get to it now.

Rob
btw, nothing dead or unhappy yet, all the fish are merry and swimming.
* one thing that I have to find out and read upon...the anemone squirted and not sure what it is??? any help?
Thanks

dirtStar · 10/24/2009, 09:11 AM

Here are my numbers

pH 7.5
Alk 2.3
No2 .1
No3 5.0
Total Nitrates 2
Amm .25

Salifert:
KH/Alk 9 / 3.20
Mg 1380
Ca 450
P04 ..03

My ph is a little low.
I am not surpised with the sump not running that the amm and nitrates are up; Once the sump is running for a
few hours,,I will retest.
As for the minerals, I think they are ok.
I will let the tank stabilize and do a water change.

Does 25gal sound good for the 75er?

Thanks,
Rob

10/22/2009, 10:10 PM	#1
dirtStar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: AKRON PA Posts: 234	New to SW/reef Hello, I am getting a 75 gal setup tomorrow. It is up and running right now. Going to tear down and setup all in one day, hopefully. This will be my first Reef tank, so I am sure I will have many question for all the XP'ers out there. I have had many, over 15 FW tanks at one time, about 5 yrs ago, got rid of em all, then setup fresh with a 10gal for the kiddies. Well, needless to say, I am ready to dive into SW, after hungering for it for manymany yrs. I have a question to start: What would be your thoughts about the live sand? Some are saying the travel will release toxins, and some say it wont matter. Should I start with 50/50 old new? 100% new with a few lbs seed 100% old or wash the old and reseed with a few pounds of the old and add in a few (20) extra new (my pick) Thanks, Rob

10/22/2009, 11:40 PM	#3
jenjen Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Langley BC, Canada Posts: 1,710	+1 go with new sand, and seed with a couple of scoops of the old sand. __________________ "Challenges forge the greatness in you" Current Tank Info: 180gal softy reef (Apr '09)

10/23/2009, 12:05 AM	#5
PRDubois Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chester, VA Posts: 3,626	To Reef Central Glad to see you This is a good place to start! -------------------------------------------------------------- There are two ways to do it and both will work well: Ether way, take 8 cups of the old sand from the top of the sandbed and put in a bucket cofered with salt water for seeding. 1 - Buy new dry sand and seed with the 8 cups you saved. 2 - Put old sand in 5 gal buckets. Rinse with garden hose by turning it on full and pushing the tip of the hose to the bottom of the bucket while you stur the sand with your hand. Will smell bad and lots of nasty stuff will float out. Keep sturing and rinsing till the water runs completly clear. Put clean sand in the moved tank and seed with the 8 cups you put aside. ----------------------------------------------------- Ether way will probally give you cloudy water to start when you fill it. If you have a canister filter or a HOB filter you can use it to clear/polish the water. ------------------------------------------------------ Do not move tank with sand in it and keep sand & rock wet. ----------------------------------------------------- Tank Move Prep 1 - Get lots of 5 gal buckets and/or rubbermaid containers. Whatever you get have covers. 2 - Have about 15 to 20 gal of new SW ready. 3 - Have site for the tank at new location ready. GFI's installed etc... 4 - When moving the tank - Concentrate on moving the tank and not the other stuff. 5 - Clean out and pack anything under your tank line chemicals, junk, old equipment, etc... 6 - Have a plan and stick to it (alsohow do you want the rock arranged the same or different , decide now) Day of move: 7 - Unplug everything 8 - Part Fill up 4 containers with some water from your tank 9 - Start removing the corals, rock, CUC and Fish into the 4 seperate containers 10 - Drain remaining water into containters leaving enough water to be just over the sand. 11 - Tear down everything and put it in your truck,van,whatever. 12 - Make sure everything is covered and drive carefully especially over speed bumps. Get to the new house: 13 - Position the stand where you have already decided it will go. now is not the time to decide this. 14 - Place the tank, sump if you have and equipment in place. 15 - Place a dinner plate on the sand and slowly pour extra old water onto the plate. this will help with preventing a sand storm 16 - Place the rock back in the tank where you want it. 17 - Place the corals back in the tank where you want it. 18 - Put the fish in the tank 19 - Top off the water and plug everything in 20 - Water will probally be cloudy but will clear up. If you have a HOB filter like a wisper or a canister filter you can run it with filter pads and carbon to clear the water faster. Sit back and enjoy __________________ http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2534403 Current Tank Info: 225 gal Reef, 60 gal reef & 40b frag tank

10/22/2009, 10:53 PM	#2
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Hi Rob, I would start with new sand and just use a couple of cups from a well maintained established tank to seed the new sand bed.

10/22/2009, 11:49 PM	#4
dirtStar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: AKRON PA Posts: 234	Would all the live rock be able to handle the bioload of the fish and sorts? about 100+ live rock with corals. Thanks Rob

10/23/2009, 09:22 AM	#6
drywallninja Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rocklin CA Posts: 93	Great advice!I am dreading my tank move on sat.Everything is so happy and healthy,but it has to be done.Paul's advice was exactly what I needed to know.Thanks!!

10/23/2009, 10:07 AM	#7
bobparker Independent thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: fletcher, n.c. Posts: 273	PRDubois, you just counterpointed yourself, if he is buying a tank already set up. "Do not move tank with sand in it and keep sand & rock wet." "Leave water just over sand" It's all going to have to all come out if you are buying that Tank. Follow the advice for seeding the sand and/or toss the rest. Also a lot of people will recommend using a plate when adding water. A much better way is to take a a piece of plastic place it across the entire surface of the sand bed and add water slowly. I use a powerhead to pump in water form mixing tubs. as the tank fills the plastic will begin to float up with the surface of the water, just make sure you direct the water flow into the plastic. when nearing the top of the water line remove the plastic slowly. You'll find this works much better than a plate. Also patience is a virtue in reef tanks, don't add your fish and coral until your perimeters are right and your water has cleared up completely. Dumping them into a tank that is all murky, cold and unstable will only send your stock into shock. They will be OK in a tubs for the night. add a small power head to create flow in the tubs. Even then they will still be better off. No offense to some of these xperts in this forum, but copying and pasting articles that are full of disinformation will only leave a newby scratching their head and pi*%ed off because their stock dies and they end up with an empty tank. Drywallninja, do you finish or hang? I've been in the trade for 21 years now and run tools. Being that construction is slow, I'm sure you don't want your stock dying off.

10/24/2009, 07:30 AM	#9
dirtStar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: AKRON PA Posts: 234	UPDATE: Well, made the move. First words: ok so far. Took about 3 hrs to tear down. we kept the sump all intact and drained water while pulling rock and corals. Pulled out the 5 fish and shrimp, starfish and ground crew. loaded everything in my shortbed pickup. I drove 3 hours back home. The fun began. Took about 5 hours to setup and then I was tired. The rock + corals now have to be fine tuned for placement. Funny thing is: the second I put in Nemo--he landed on the anemone and was humping and fanning it. It slowly opened and he is now happy. Turns out, that I kept about 8-10 cups of the old sand, wwashed the rest (about 50lbs or more) and put it in. All fish are looking good and I fed them just a little last night and I got the antintics hooked up.....They all came, ate, and were merry. I got the temp up to 80F. One thing is (shame me) For the CPR bakpak overflo, we had to cut the plumbing and when I put in a sleeve joint, I forgot to cut an extra 1/2 inch or so off, and now it dosent rest low enough to work. I have just powerheads and two heaters running in the display and the skimmer, UV, Phosban running in the sump. I will be either plumbing new, or cutting out extra and putting in a new sleeve today. Other than that, I will be doing all tests in a bit to report what is really going on-- last night was too tired and should have done it, but will get to it now. Rob btw, nothing dead or unhappy yet, all the fish are merry and swimming. * one thing that I have to find out and read upon...the anemone squirted and not sure what it is??? any help? Thanks

10/24/2009, 09:11 AM	#10
dirtStar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: AKRON PA Posts: 234	Here are my numbers pH 7.5 Alk 2.3 No2 .1 No3 5.0 Total Nitrates 2 Amm .25 Salifert: KH/Alk 9 / 3.20 Mg 1380 Ca 450 P04 ..03 My ph is a little low. I am not surpised with the sump not running that the amm and nitrates are up; Once the sump is running for a few hours,,I will retest. As for the minerals, I think they are ok. I will let the tank stabilize and do a water change. Does 25gal sound good for the 75er? Thanks, Rob