So I am doing a research paper: Jaubert Method vs Berlin Method

[PatrickJ]

I am doing a research paper on two different methologies to accomplish a task. In this case, the tast is keeping a healthy balanced aquarium. So my two methodogies are: Jaubert Method vs Berlin Method. Or similar like methods that adhear to the basic principles that oppose each other in some contrasting way.

So here's what I need help with...I need help finding good academic sources. It is pretty hard finding stuff through Academic Approved searches, such as Google Scholar, Lexis Nexus, JSTOR, EBSCO Host, and ect...

If you know of any good books I can site from that would greatly help my research.

Heres, what I have so far.... (MLA cited)

Borneman, Eric H. Aquarium Corals Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History. Minneapolis: TFH Publications, 2001. Print.
Borneman, Eric. "The Old Becomes New, Yet Again: Sandbeds and Vodka." Reef Keeping Magazine. Reefcentral.com, Oct. 2004. Web. 26 Oct. 2009. .
Michael, Scott W. Fishchannel.com. Fishchannel.com. Web. 25 Oct. 2009. .
Mills, Dick. The Marine Aquarium: Comprehensive Coverage, from Setting Up an Aquarium to Choosing the Best Fishes. 1st ed. Vol. 1. Barron's, 2004. Print.
Sprung, Julian, and J. Charles Delbeek. The Reef Aquarium Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3. Grand Rapids: Two Little Fishies, Inc., d.b.a. Ricordea, 2005. Print.
Toonen, Robert J., and Christopher B. Wee "An experimental comparison of sediment-based biological filtration designs for recirculating aquarium systems." Aquaculture 250.1/2 (2005): 244-255. Academic Search Complete. EBSCO. Web. 28 Oct. 2009.
Toonen, Robert, and Christopher Wee. Advance Aquarist's Online Magazine. Reefs.org, June 2005. Web. 25 Oct. 2009. .
Tullock, John H. Natural reef aquariums simplified approaches to creating living saltwater microcosms. Shelburne, Vt: Microcosm Ltd., 1997. Print.
Vitko, Roger. "A History of the Hobby." Reef Keeping Magazine. Reefcentral.com, Sept. 2005. Web. 26 Oct. 2009. .


If anyone can help me find some good academic or authoritative sources, it would greatly help!!! Or any input would help! I will even post the paper here for your reading pleasure.

[uncleof6]

Dr. Lee Chin Eng, published his work/success in 1961, pretty much the earliest published use of live rock and live sand (sandbed) that I can think of off hand. All the roads, by appearances anyway, lead back to him. It is always possible that two roads starting in different places wind up in the same place. Peter Wilkens, sometimes, and in memorium, has been referred to as the "godfather" of basic reefkeeping, though I think it still ties back to Dr. Eng. And of course, we cannot leave out Dr. Jean Jaubert.

What is my point? I don't think a research paper would be complete with out "direct from the source," rather than several times removed.

Eng, L.C. 1961. Nature's system of keeping marine fishes. Tropical Fish Hobbyist 9(6):23-30.

Wilkens, P. 1970. Niedere Tiere im tropischen Meeresaquarium (The Saltwater Aquarium for Tropical Marine Invertebrates)

Jaubert, J. 1989. An integrated nitrifying-denitrifying biological system capable of purifying sea water in a closed circuit system. In: Deuxieme Congres International d'Aquariologie (1988) Monaco. Bulletin
de l'Institut Oceanographique, Monaco, no special 5:101-106.

HTH,

Jim

[PatrickJ]

Thanks Jim, good advice.

[PatrickJ]

Anyone else care to input? Good sources?

[PatrickJ]

bump

[PatrickJ]

bump you guys!

[PatrickJ]

haha bump

[BLKTANG]

If u search the SPS forum you will get some threads on those mythods including some "Bailing" mythod.I rember reading up on this some time ago.

HTH

[PatrickJ]

Originally Posted by BLKTANG

If u search the SPS forum you will get some threads on those mythods including some "Bailing" mythod.I rember reading up on this some time ago.

HTH

great great great! this is what I need. input is greatly appreciated. no matter how small. This is a good lead!

oh and go saints!!!

[Peter Eichler]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...02/feature.htm

and the references at the bottom of it...

Keep in mind you're doing a paper on dated methods and things that are mainly hobby terms. You're having a hard time finding academic type materials because they don't really exist.

[hbuelta]

hi,

In the "The Reef Aquarium" (specially VOL.3 for discussion on Jaubert/Berlin) series books from Delbek/Sprung you can find a good and solid Bibliography where maybe you can find something interesting....

Hope this help !!!

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by Peter Eichler

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...02/feature.htm

and the references at the bottom of it...

Keep in mind you're doing a paper on dated methods and things that are mainly hobby terms. You're having a hard time finding academic type materials because they don't really exist.

I differ with you on this one. Plenums are still widely used, and still current. (Large public aquariums for example) The Berlin method as an "entity" as it were, is waning, as the move toward more natural systems using sand beds progresses. It moves forward and backwards, depending on the current trendy thing to do, but the methods are not dated by any means. Whether they are hobby terms or not.

There has always been a lack of information within the "hobby" that was truly and and completely scientific in nature, as hobbyists are not setting up many tanks side by side, however there is a plethora of information on how things work in the ocean around the natural reefs. Of course, there is a great deal that we simply do not know also.

I think what is dated, is that people are too easily persuaded by opinions, rather than digging for the information, some of it rather old, and not necessarily with in the 'aquarium hobby.' But in the fields of physical, chemical, and biological oceanography, and also marine biology. Estuarine study is another area that leads to information concerning anoxic and anaerobic processes. (estuaries are sometimes referred to as the filters of the ocean-- mud flats.) There is a great deal to learn, if you follow the paper trail back to the information that lead to the "method." By then following the paper trail forward, you can find the divergence that led to this opinion or that opinion, and the reasons for a positive or negative "opinion," and the reason this or that failed but this succeded and thus save yourself and your critters a lot of trouble..... hey wait a minute, I ain't gunna write this fella's paper for him......

They call them research papers for a reason: You have to research the topic, and part of the drill with this, is figuring out where to find the information. Ultimately which is better? A person that knows a heck of a lot about this or that? Or a person that knows how to find out anything about everything?

Jim

[Peter Eichler]

Originally Posted by uncleof6

I differ with you on this one. Plenums are still widely used, and still current. (Large public aquariums for example) The Berlin method as an "entity" as it were, is waning, as the move toward more natural systems using sand beds progresses. It moves forward and backwards, depending on the current trendy thing to do, but the methods are not dated by any means. Whether they are hobby terms or not.

There has always been a lack of information within the "hobby" that was truly and and completely scientific in nature, as hobbyists are not setting up many tanks side by side, however there is a plethora of information on how things work in the ocean around the natural reefs. Of course, there is a great deal that we simply do not know also.

I think what is dated, is that people are too easily persuaded by opinions, rather than digging for the information, some of it rather old, and not necessarily with in the 'aquarium hobby.' But in the fields of physical, chemical, and biological oceanography, and also marine biology. Estuarine study is another area that leads to information concerning anoxic and anaerobic processes. (estuaries are sometimes referred to as the filters of the ocean-- mud flats.) There is a great deal to learn, if you follow the paper trail back to the information that lead to the "method." By then following the paper trail forward, you can find the divergence that led to this opinion or that opinion, and the reasons for a positive or negative "opinion," and the reason this or that failed but this succeded and thus save yourself and your critters a lot of trouble..... hey wait a minute, I ain't gunna write this fella's paper for him......

They call them research papers for a reason: You have to research the topic, and part of the drill with this, is figuring out where to find the information. Ultimately which is better? A person that knows a heck of a lot about this or that? Or a person that knows how to find out anything about everything?

Jim

Widely used is a stretch. Current is also questionable since there really doesn't seem to be much difference between having just a somewhat deep sandbed and having a plenum below that sand bed. For that reason, to me, they are outdated and superfluous. Plus, if we as hobbyists were to mimic public aquariums and what they do, we'd be setting this hobby back about 20 years...

Also, Berlin method and it being bare bottom tanks was something that was falsely conveyed by various authors in the hobby. The Berlin method itself isn't as dated as much as the term is. Most of us are basically keeping slightly modified versions of Berlin method tanks with a refugium tacked on.

[saf1]

I think you, the OP, are on the right track in looking for sources and input to read. The hobby as a whole has been around a while. While good the bad comes with it in regards to the personal biasness and religeous opinions we all have. No disrepect to anyone on the board but just read any of the forums as it relates to lights, sand, skimmers, bare bottom, etc.

One thing is given though - is that we all do it a bit different but share common tools. But whereas I might use a phillips screw driver for a job you may use a cross tip... Same yet different.

Just because I use sand at the bottom of my tank doesn't mean it does any better than someone who doesn't. I just happen to use sand and live rock because that is what I see everytime I go scuba diving And more importantly - it works for me.

But I can not dismiss anyone who on these board or others has a better looking tank say than I if they do something different or use a bare bottom. And I see this as noise which makes something like your task a bit difficult. Because the noise are things like:

Husbandry
lighting
fish, coral selection
feeding
water quality
etc

Good luck though!

[PatrickJ]

Wow,

Thanks this really is helping me out. I really like what I am seeing here. I even picked up a new source from "Peter Eichler", which is a fantastic. I do not know how I missed that one!

"Peter Eichler" says,

Keep in mind you're doing a paper on dated methods and things that are mainly hobby terms. You're having a hard time finding academic type materials because they don't really exist.

There will be!




Thank you again for the help you guys. I havent started yet, but I have a good head start because of these great sources.


Any more is welcomed!

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by Peter Eichler

Widely used is a stretch. Current is also questionable since there really doesn't seem to be much difference between having just a somewhat deep sandbed and having a plenum below that sand bed. For that reason, to me, they are outdated and superfluous. Plus, if we as hobbyists were to mimic public aquariums and what they do, we'd be setting this hobby back about 20 years...

Also, Berlin method and it being bare bottom tanks was something that was falsely conveyed by various authors in the hobby. The Berlin method itself isn't as dated as much as the term is. Most of us are basically keeping slightly modified versions of Berlin method tanks with a refugium tacked on.

I think you have missed the point of my post, looked for items than can be subjected to argument, and highlighted them with your opinion. And my post directly addressed the use opinion in a research paper.

I think if you take my opening statement in that post, and research it-- you will find it is not an opinion. If you take the whole post in context, you will find that my premise is a research paper is the wrong place to include opinion as a basis for developing a theory.

Now if the premise of the paper, is that the volume of anecdotal information-- not based on sound scientific methods, and opinions have led to a complete lack of understanding of either of these methods-- especially in the area of sand beds, in the context of closed system marine aquariums, then opinions may have merit. But it would still take a thorough investigation into the scientific basis of these methods, to separate the myth from the facts. To wit, the why of it (based on scientific data, or the original work.) For instance: Why the "Berlin" method descriptions, were erroneous, incorrect, false, or incomplete. If indeed they were, or still are. (As I said, I am not going to write the paper, this would be a disservice to the OP.)

In simpler terms, leave the opinion out of it, let the OP draw his own conclusions. If you can point him to good information-- do so. He is looking for sources, not opinions.

Jim

[PatrickJ]

Originally Posted by Peter Eichler

Widely used is a stretch. Current is also questionable since there really doesn't seem to be much difference between having just a somewhat deep sandbed and having a plenum below that sand bed. For that reason, to me, they are outdated and superfluous. Plus, if we as hobbyists were to mimic public aquariums and what they do, we'd be setting this hobby back about 20 years...

Also, Berlin method and it being bare bottom tanks was something that was falsely conveyed by various authors in the hobby. The Berlin method itself isn't as dated as much as the term is. Most of us are basically keeping slightly modified versions of Berlin method tanks with a refugium tacked on.

I do plan to address this. I do understand that most people use a mod version of both. Most people do not use a plenum nor are completely bare bottom.

Some of the best tanks I've ever seen were purely one way or the other and some of the worst were a combo of the two. I hope to try to answer this. Or come to some conclusion even if its not an answer.