return pump question

[MrsHaggis]

Hi,

We are trying to sort out our return pump/sump situation. And we are having a slight difference of opinion. My husband thinks that the return pump should be pumping water through it like a fireman's hose - huge pressure! Which is doing nothing but making loads of noise and displacing all the sand. I think that we don't need to have quite as much flow coming through it keeping the noise down.......and keeping the sand in place!

Our main problem is that no matter what level we put the drain pipes the noise is quite unbearable!! The only thing that solves the noise problem is by slowing the return rate and therefore having less flow.

Anyone got any ideas/insight??

Cheers
Fiona

[themastr]

If you are talking about the drain noise go and research on the Durso standpipe. pretty easy to make. there is also another one called,.... let me check I will post it in a bit

erick

[MrsHaggis]

Forgot to mention that we have 2 Tunze Nanostream 6055 for flow so we are not using the return pump to add flow necessarily!

[FISHSTICK745]

You can try this:http://www.rl180reef.com/180/pages/standpipe/

[MrsHaggis]

The husband has made a Durso standpipe but we might need a bigger air tube in it or something he thinks!!

[themastr]

Herbie standpipe is the other one.

erick

[themastr]

I have the durso standpipe and it shouldn't cause that much noise. I'm assuming you have an oveerflow in the tank? I am going to build the herbie in my next tank cause it's suppose to have NO noise but you will need two holes drilled or you can research on building the modified one with one hole. But it confused me so I will stick with the 2 holes. LOL

erick

[MrsHaggis]

yep we have an overflow, i think most of the noise is now coming from the sump to be honest.......the flow is not continuous from what I can tell now. the water builds up in the overflow then drains down the pipe, splashes into the sump and then builds up again the overflow! not enough air in the Durso pipe?

[themastr]

Yes I think so. Tell your husband to put an air hose and go to home depot and buy those small under ground sprinkler flow control valves and adjust the air intake. uhm let me try to explain it better. Put a bigger air line and plug it with something you can control the air with. I use those plastic 1/4 inch sprinkler valves.


hope this makes sense

erick

[themastr]

Also once you have that figured out put a 45 degree pvc pipe angle just before your drain hits the water or submerge it underwater and drill a little hole just above the water line to let a little bit of air in. this way you wont get that flushing sound.

erick

[MrsHaggis]

ok, so no gurgling (almost) in the overflow but the sump is still making some noise.
tomorrow night (it's now midnight here) we will try to reduce the size of the drain pipe so that the water does not have as much of a fall.....will keep you posted!!

[MrsHaggis]

we had a 45 degree and took it out so now that the gurgling issue is sorted (we had the air pipe and valves from my old acclimation system) we will try that again too!! and the air hole just above the water line!

but we have made some mad progress tonight given he has been working on it for days/weeks now!!

at least we have a quieter system that yesterday and a stable water flow and water level.......

thanks for all the help and advice!

PS I read the Herbie system, think I need to read it again and again until I understand it fully!

[ludnix]

With time the drains will quiet down, so once it should only get better with time. The amount of water you cycle between the sump and display doesn't seem to make much difference. A lot of people prefer to have their sump with low flow going through it, but ultimately noise seems to be the only factor in this.

[Indymann99]

You can put a ball valve on the OUTPUT side of your return pump to reduce the volume of water returning to the tank. Many have to do this to balance the return and the drain.

I run a Herbie design and once adjusted the system has been dead silent for 2 years.

[sedor]

Reason to run lower flow in the sump is to give your skimmer more contact with the water. Basically it just helps you skim more efficiently. Don't throw your big, bad pump out though, you can always dial down the pressure with a ball valve on the return line and down the road you can T off of it and run other pieces of equipment such as reactors etc with the same pump.

[cozzar]

Like MrsHaggis said we have made a lot of progress in the last 24 hrs. I have installed a ball valve on the output side of the return pump which is coming in very useful for the fine tuning. On my way home from work tonight I will get a hose and adjustable tap to regulate the airflow at the top of the durso. I did try an air hose in there last night but it wasnt letting in enough air so I need to get a bigger size hose.

Back to the origional question though. We are running a 100 gallon tank and using an Eheim 1260 return pump. From what I have read we should aim for a flow rate on our tank of 4 to 5 times the tank capacity per hour (so 400 to 500 gallons). So not quite fire hydrant quantities as was mentioned (Mrs Haggis does exagerate a wee bit) but am I right in saying this or is it ok to have a lower flow rate because more and more I am reading here that it is ok to have a lower flow rate for more effective skimming.

[lewk]

Originally Posted by MrsHaggis

yep we have an overflow, i think most of the noise is now coming from the sump to be honest.......the flow is not continuous from what I can tell now. the water builds up in the overflow then drains down the pipe, splashes into the sump and then builds up again the overflow! not enough air in the Durso pipe?

If the overflow volume is sort of going up and down, then more air should help. Mine was doing this, and I kept drilling tiny holes in the Durso until it was near constant. I made a compromise between constant water volume and the gurgling noise and it's near perfect for me now.

[Indymann99]

I subscribe to the theory that 3-5x turnover for your sump is good and gives your skimmer and Macro sufficient contact time to work efficiently.

Others will disagree and run much higher turnover rates.

Powerheads in the Display tank (as you have) are best at providing flow within the tank.

Sounds like you are making good progress.

[chow]

As for the duraso standpipe, I built one last week and have the water level at 3 inches below the overflow depth and it cut my sounds down by 80%. You don't need to get these valves though I think. Just drill multiple(maybe 3 or 4) 1/4 inch holes around the cap and through the pipe. You can adjust the amount of air going in by turning the cap and therefore controlling the air going in. It worked on mine and I think it's just as effective as getting an adjustable valve

[MrsHaggis]

We now no gurgling noise - finally managed to get the right mix between air and water in the Durso.

We still have some sump noise but nothing compared to previous attempts! So I think we will leave it running like that for a bit........if the husband can keep his hands off it (which is doubtful)!!

I'm hoping to get the fish in there on the 12th of December or soon thereafter. They have been living in a bucket since their tank broke about 4 months ago!! They definitely need a new home.......

[themastr]

just pm me if you need anything else

erick