Newbie Questions for the tank gods... (In Wall)

nuevopescado · 11/30/2009, 08:31 PM

Hey all,
Really glad I found this site. I am a relative newbie other than keeping a 55 freshwater going for a few years. I am now on the tale end of gutting and remodeling a cape cod in KY and am really wanting to get back into the hobby. I have always wanted a salt water tank and have been reading more and more when time will permit...
I am interested in building into the wall a salt water tank. The tank will be the backdrop of the bar area in a basement. The nice thing is that behind that wall is unfinished so I have plenty of room for working on the tank. Also there is a preexsiting floor drain right next to the spot and a sink pretty close as well. Framing for us won't be a problem. I am thinking about a 125G tank about 6 foot long give or take. Here are my main questions?
Is an extra tank or refugium an absolute must in both reef tanks and fish only tanks?
Is there a setup that is less maintenance, ie just fish vs reef etc etc.
Am I a glutton for punishment with my work schedule 65+ hours a week to think I can maintain a setup?
What setup may lend itself as being easier for me being not only new to this but also working waaaaayyyyyyyyy toooo much?
I'm not afraid of the work it's that if I am going to do it I want to plan enough to not fail by getting in over my head at first.

Sincerely thanks in advance for all suggestions and advice, Brian

SkarfPa · 11/30/2009, 08:57 PM

you asked alot of questions and I'm sure you will get alot of different answers maybe i could help with a part of this the queston on the refugium there are alot of good reasons to have one and I know a few people with nice tanks that dont but when you sit at your bar and look at your tank what do you want to see a hang on the back filter ,skimmer,a few heaters a 125 you will need at least 2. put all that in your sump and look at your fish. Haveing the room behind your tank is a plus and will make things easier and how you build this part of your setup will determine how hard it will be to upkeep dont cut corners good luck

bertoni · 11/30/2009, 10:01 PM

I think that your work schedule is rather heavy, and I might recommend a smaller tank.

A refugium isn't necessary, but it does allow more stocking in the main tank and can provide more live food for the tank, depending on what's done with it. A fish-only tank might be easier to maintain, depending on the fish and corals that might be chosen. Soft corals tend to be easy to keep, though. There are lots of time-savers that can help a lot: autotopoff to replace evaporation, automated calcium-alkalinity dosing, and auto-feeders, for example.

chow · 11/30/2009, 10:13 PM

With a sump you can have a larger bioload in your tank plus you can hide all your unsightly equipment(skimmer, heaters, etc) from view. If you had to have a salt water tank, I would think a fish only tank would be easier than a reef.

thegrun · 11/30/2009, 10:34 PM

The sump would not only hide your equipment and improve your water quality, it would also make the maintenance of the tank easier and lengthen the time between water changes which would be a plus with your schedule. Fish only would definitely require less maintenance, as fish do not require water that is quite as clean as corals.

terri_ann · 12/01/2009, 01:01 AM

Bertoni and the Grun gave you great info and insight. I might add that a larger tank has less problems, usually ;-), because of water stability, more room for the tankmates (unless overstocked, of course), etc. If you are thinking seriously about having a tank- read, plan, read and plan some more. Getting good info and insight from experienced reefers will take you far and should result in less (costly) mistakes/do-overs. There is a DIY forum here, merchants/suppliers, probably everything and anything you could want/need. You might just enjoy the hobby so much that you won't work those long hours...no wait, this hobby is addictive ... and expensive

aaronnohren · 12/01/2009, 08:42 AM

I don't think that you'll over work yourself. This is a hobby and if you have experience with fish you know that patience is the key and you can't have everything in a matter of days. That being said, if you don't want to look at a bunch of equipment inside your tank, then yes a sump tank is a must. Plus, you'll get more filtration if set up properly which will make for a healthier tank. Second, I recommend a FOWLR (Fish only with live rock) system. Much of the pain of saltwater comes with working with coral such as fish compatibility with coral, lighting, flow, and special dosing. Go fish only. You'll be just as satisfied with less the headache.

nuevopescado · 12/01/2009, 06:59 PM

Thank you all for all of the great advice and support. As I was looking at other threads I saw a "mighty mite" hooked to a guys toilet lines. What the hell does that thing do?? lol For water changes?
As a starter what would I expect to pay for a starter setup 125 salt w/o stand just to get me going but at the same time buy things that I wont replace in less than a year? I know it all depends on specific setup but what is my ballpark?
Also is glass vs acrylic tanks like Ford vs Chevy or is there a pretty definitive choice amongst hobbiest?
One last question for now, is a drilled tank the only way to run a refugium or sump or just greatly preferred or am I way off base?
Thanks again guys!!

jherrin215 · 12/01/2009, 07:12 PM

what part of ky are you from??

nuevopescado · 12/01/2009, 07:17 PM

louisville

jherrin215 · 12/01/2009, 07:36 PM

I'm from Glasgow, well used to live in Glasgow work there now, I actually live in the middle of nowhere.

David Jr. · 12/01/2009, 09:05 PM

I don't know about the mighty mite. Price will be about 4-5k for a good setup, including rock. Glass and acrylic are completely different. Glass is harder to scratch, but acrylic is lighter & clearer. I would go with glass, just to be safe. With acrylic, you will almost certainly scratch it at some point.

Bud Reeferman · 12/01/2009, 10:34 PM

You're gonna need minimum 1-2 hours a week for base-line maintenance, cleaning, salting RO/DI water, remove old water and put in new, testing and tweaking at the very lease CA, Mg and Alk levels. And don't forget vacuuming sand monthly and cleaning the glass every day. And wait, fish have to be fed and you need time to watch to see what needs to be moved to keep the neighborhood healthy and compatible. And you also spend time buying all the crap needed to keep it running smoothly.

If your woking 65+ per week, you probably dont need to add more baseline responsiblities. Tough call.

MandM · 12/01/2009, 11:06 PM

There are many things to consider with a tank in a wall.
First, don't make the access only at the back. You will need to access the front in order to scrape algae off the front and side inside glass.

The evaporation can be significant. I have t5s and I still evap 2-3 g per day with my 120 and 30g sump. A hole in the wall needs to be well sealed to prevent moisture and mold inside the wall.

Check out my gallery for how I did a hole in the wall to access my tank from the back in a hallway. the tank sits in the front room, about 3-4" away from the wall.

I have the 120 and a 8g nano. IMO, the nano is easier to maintain with a busy schedule. Mix up salt water ahead of time and do a small water change once a week, , rinse the sponge or other filter media using the old tank water, top off with RODI when feeding daily.

11/30/2009, 08:31 PM	#1
nuevopescado Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3	Newbie Questions for the tank gods... (In Wall) Hey all, Really glad I found this site. I am a relative newbie other than keeping a 55 freshwater going for a few years. I am now on the tale end of gutting and remodeling a cape cod in KY and am really wanting to get back into the hobby. I have always wanted a salt water tank and have been reading more and more when time will permit... I am interested in building into the wall a salt water tank. The tank will be the backdrop of the bar area in a basement. The nice thing is that behind that wall is unfinished so I have plenty of room for working on the tank. Also there is a preexsiting floor drain right next to the spot and a sink pretty close as well. Framing for us won't be a problem. I am thinking about a 125G tank about 6 foot long give or take. Here are my main questions? Is an extra tank or refugium an absolute must in both reef tanks and fish only tanks? Is there a setup that is less maintenance, ie just fish vs reef etc etc. Am I a glutton for punishment with my work schedule 65+ hours a week to think I can maintain a setup? What setup may lend itself as being easier for me being not only new to this but also working waaaaayyyyyyyyy toooo much? I'm not afraid of the work it's that if I am going to do it I want to plan enough to not fail by getting in over my head at first. Sincerely thanks in advance for all suggestions and advice, Brian

11/30/2009, 10:01 PM	#3
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I think that your work schedule is rather heavy, and I might recommend a smaller tank. A refugium isn't necessary, but it does allow more stocking in the main tank and can provide more live food for the tank, depending on what's done with it. A fish-only tank might be easier to maintain, depending on the fish and corals that might be chosen. Soft corals tend to be easy to keep, though. There are lots of time-savers that can help a lot: autotopoff to replace evaporation, automated calcium-alkalinity dosing, and auto-feeders, for example. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/01/2009, 01:01 AM	#6
terri_ann Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Marshalltown, IA Posts: 841	Bertoni and the Grun gave you great info and insight. I might add that a larger tank has less problems, usually ;-), because of water stability, more room for the tankmates (unless overstocked, of course), etc. If you are thinking seriously about having a tank- read, plan, read and plan some more. Getting good info and insight from experienced reefers will take you far and should result in less (costly) mistakes/do-overs. There is a DIY forum here, merchants/suppliers, probably everything and anything you could want/need. You might just enjoy the hobby so much that you won't work those long hours...no wait, this hobby is addictive ... and expensive __________________ Happy Reefing!! :) Current Tank Info: 180g mixed 40B Anemone 5' raceway frag tank

12/01/2009, 10:34 PM	#13
Bud Reeferman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Midlothian, VA Posts: 408	You're gonna need minimum 1-2 hours a week for base-line maintenance, cleaning, salting RO/DI water, remove old water and put in new, testing and tweaking at the very lease CA, Mg and Alk levels. And don't forget vacuuming sand monthly and cleaning the glass every day. And wait, fish have to be fed and you need time to watch to see what needs to be moved to keep the neighborhood healthy and compatible. And you also spend time buying all the crap needed to keep it running smoothly. If your woking 65+ per week, you probably dont need to add more baseline responsiblities. Tough call. __________________ Bud Reeferman _________________________ Current Tank Info: 225g with refugium, Starfire, three 450W MH, two 5' VHO Actinic, moon lights, Octopus skimmer, auto top-off, C02 reactor, chiller, two Little Fishies reactors, ghosts of hundreds of dead fish and coral

12/01/2009, 11:06 PM	#14
MandM sick yet brilliant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,497	There are many things to consider with a tank in a wall. First, don't make the access only at the back. You will need to access the front in order to scrape algae off the front and side inside glass. The evaporation can be significant. I have t5s and I still evap 2-3 g per day with my 120 and 30g sump. A hole in the wall needs to be well sealed to prevent moisture and mold inside the wall. Check out my gallery for how I did a hole in the wall to access my tank from the back in a hallway. the tank sits in the front room, about 3-4" away from the wall. I have the 120 and a 8g nano. IMO, the nano is easier to maintain with a busy schedule. Mix up salt water ahead of time and do a small water change once a week, , rinse the sponge or other filter media using the old tank water, top off with RODI when feeding daily. __________________ Sheila I was emo when emo wasn't cool If your not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Current Tank Info: 120g, 8g

11/30/2009, 08:57 PM	#2
SkarfPa Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: McAdoo,Pa Posts: 62	you asked alot of questions and I'm sure you will get alot of different answers maybe i could help with a part of this the queston on the refugium there are alot of good reasons to have one and I know a few people with nice tanks that dont but when you sit at your bar and look at your tank what do you want to see a hang on the back filter ,skimmer,a few heaters a 125 you will need at least 2. put all that in your sump and look at your fish. Haveing the room behind your tank is a plus and will make things easier and how you build this part of your setup will determine how hard it will be to upkeep dont cut corners good luck

11/30/2009, 10:13 PM	#4
chow Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 61	With a sump you can have a larger bioload in your tank plus you can hide all your unsightly equipment(skimmer, heaters, etc) from view. If you had to have a salt water tank, I would think a fish only tank would be easier than a reef.

11/30/2009, 10:34 PM	#5
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	The sump would not only hide your equipment and improve your water quality, it would also make the maintenance of the tank easier and lengthen the time between water changes which would be a plus with your schedule. Fish only would definitely require less maintenance, as fish do not require water that is quite as clean as corals.

12/01/2009, 08:42 AM	#7
aaronnohren Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 89	I don't think that you'll over work yourself. This is a hobby and if you have experience with fish you know that patience is the key and you can't have everything in a matter of days. That being said, if you don't want to look at a bunch of equipment inside your tank, then yes a sump tank is a must. Plus, you'll get more filtration if set up properly which will make for a healthier tank. Second, I recommend a FOWLR (Fish only with live rock) system. Much of the pain of saltwater comes with working with coral such as fish compatibility with coral, lighting, flow, and special dosing. Go fish only. You'll be just as satisfied with less the headache.

12/01/2009, 06:59 PM	#8
nuevopescado Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3	Thank you all for all of the great advice and support. As I was looking at other threads I saw a "mighty mite" hooked to a guys toilet lines. What the hell does that thing do?? lol For water changes? As a starter what would I expect to pay for a starter setup 125 salt w/o stand just to get me going but at the same time buy things that I wont replace in less than a year? I know it all depends on specific setup but what is my ballpark? Also is glass vs acrylic tanks like Ford vs Chevy or is there a pretty definitive choice amongst hobbiest? One last question for now, is a drilled tank the only way to run a refugium or sump or just greatly preferred or am I way off base? Thanks again guys!!

12/01/2009, 07:12 PM	#9
jherrin215 GO COLTS!! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 854	what part of ky are you from??

12/01/2009, 07:17 PM	#10
nuevopescado Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3	louisville

12/01/2009, 07:36 PM	#11
jherrin215 GO COLTS!! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 854	I'm from Glasgow, well used to live in Glasgow work there now, I actually live in the middle of nowhere.

12/01/2009, 09:05 PM	#12
David Jr. Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 147	I don't know about the mighty mite. Price will be about 4-5k for a good setup, including rock. Glass and acrylic are completely different. Glass is harder to scratch, but acrylic is lighter & clearer. I would go with glass, just to be safe. With acrylic, you will almost certainly scratch it at some point.