No more Amphipods

[Rainer Feyer]

Where have my Amphipods gone?

My system is appr 7 years old, 75g main with 20g refugium, running T5's.
Inhabitants: SPS/ LPS, clowns, damsels, Powder Tang, no mandarines etc.

Refugium has no sand, but has good amount of rubble and lighting as well as Macroalgae and Algae from the AT/ Scrubber.

I do not run a S, but the system is really clean as far as Nitrates and Phosphates go, very minimal algae growth in main tank even though I feed liberally.

Calcium/ Mg++, and Alk are in mid-normal range pretty consistently.

So, where have my Amphi's gone and how can I get more? LFS no help with getting more. Tried getting orders of Macroalage from here, but this did not produce and Amphi's (and, yes, I do check late at night as well).

[Radioheadx14]

maybe try some live rock or chaeto from a local reefer or a better source.

[asl4me76]

Google is a great source of information.

https://www.livecopepods.com/zencart...FQiA5QodChiKqA

[graveyardworm]

Chances are you have some, but a very small population due to insufficient food or some sort of competition. Other critters may be eating the larvae before they even get a chance. Have you checked the tanks with a flashlight after lights out?

[Rainer Feyer]

Yup,

done the flashlight at night trick, no Amphie's.

[asl4me76]

order some..and see if that re-seeds them

[graveyardworm]

This is a pretty typical scenario as a reef tank ages. The diversity you start off with becomes less and less as more dominant species outcompete others. Sounds like its time to restock your detritivore CUC. You can go with online vendors or try adding some fresh LR, after its cured in a seperate container of course. You can also try getting sand from other local hobbyists. Each tank is a bit different and will support different populations of critters.

[graveyardworm]

I've also found that Amphi's like a sand bed. They burrow in it for security, and perhaps it also helps with reproduction as in a safe place for the larvae to develop. It may also help to support more of the prey items they require.

[asl4me76]

I went to a presentation not long ago at my local club, DMAs. And the speaker there said it is good to add a new piece of rock to your system from someone else like once every six months, so that way you're constantly keeping ahead of the game and this doesn't occur.

[graveyardworm]

How's your Mysis population? They can be serious predators, and even turn to cannibalism if food sources run short. Another thought is perhaps their just isnt enough small food for them. The larvae typically need some sort of plankton like phyto for larvae development if your not adding any it may help to make it part of your feeding routine, and will help boost the populations of many of the tiny critters.

[phil519]

Originally Posted by asl4me76

Google is a great source of information.

https://www.livecopepods.com/zencart...FQiA5QodChiKqA

While that is true- he asked for amphipods - not copepods...

IPSF sells amphipods.
http://www.ipsf.com/podbreedingkit.html

That stated - is there a need for amphipods? Seems to me they serve a very small niche in the CUC scale that others may have taken over already. Heck every week when I toss my cheato i have to shake it and out drops amphipods. I'm guessing others in your area could probably pass some to you.

[Rainer Feyer]

Thanks all - i will try to find locals who can give me a hand ful of chaeto.

Do all you agree that sand is needed on top of what I am using, which is rubble?

Also, Phil 519 is correct, I was looking for Amphipods not copepods

Also, I will try to exchange a rock with a local.

Thanks again!

[ludnix]

Originally Posted by Rainer Feyer

Thanks all - i will try to find locals who can give me a hand ful of chaeto.

Do all you agree that sand is needed on top of what I am using, which is rubble?

Also, Phil 519 is correct, I was looking for Amphipods not copepods

Also, I will try to exchange a rock with a local.

Thanks again!

I can't be certain if you need sand, but that is where I usually find my amphipods. They are not very common in my sandless sections of my sump. You could easily add a few centimeters of sand and it would be enough. They do not need much.

[Rainer Feyer]

Thanks Ludnix, will try to add some,

Rainer

[lostintheocean]

try putting a loofa in your sump or some of that blue/white filter media, this will creat a nice breeding area for them, shake them into the tank every so often. I have dont this in the past with great success. Currently i have some blue/white filter inbetween my baffels in my sump. When I rinse the muck out of it I give it a twice over and return all the amphipods to the tank. there are usually a bunch.

[Rainer Feyer]

That is actually a great idea! Thanks

Rainer

[ChadTheSpike]

This is a problem that I have noted in our low nutrient systems... even with extended system volume and/or a refugium and a place for pods to breed, the problem is more that low nutrients exist throughout a system, not just in the DT. I recommend culturing them in a separate tank or ordering some online.

[Rainer Feyer]

Interesting point well taken! A separate 10g could be enough, no?

I will see if i can find some threads on this

Thanks

[ChadTheSpike]

A separate 10g will be more than enough.
I have some notes on it at home and can share if youd like, although the best reference I know of is The Plankton Culture Manual.

[Rainer Feyer]

Chad,

notes would be awesome if you get a chance!!

[KarlBob]

Sachs Systems Aquaculture also carries amphipods, as do some LFSs.

I realize the OP asked for amphipods, but I'll also mention that SSA carries Live Ocean Plankton ("A variety of organisms from 50 microns - to 1000 microns") and Live Ocean Copepods ("Ocean plankton skewed towards copepods. Organisms from 50 microns - to 1000 microns in size."). Both of these packages carry the risk of introducing something parasitic or otherwise harmful, but have the potential benefit of adding some variety to the micro-invertebrate population in a tank.

[SWINGRRRR]

Originally Posted by Rainer Feyer

notes would be awesome if you get a chance!!

X2 Please.

[Frogmanx82]

I have a 10 gallon running with some chaeto in it. I have it running as a ready QT and possible breeder tank for my bangaii cardinals.

There are a good many amphipods and bristle worms in there. What sort of food/feeding schedule would be best to add to keep the pod population going?

[wickedfood]

Originally Posted by ChadTheSpike

This is a problem that I have noted in our low nutrient systems... even with extended system volume and/or a refugium and a place for pods to breed, the problem is more that low nutrients exist throughout a system, not just in the DT. I recommend culturing them in a separate tank or ordering some online.

Exactly. I've found that when I slack on maintaining my tanks, and consequently get some detrus/algae buildup, I soon see a major increase in the pod population--both kinds. Obviously if you're keeping organisms that require meticulous water quality, it's enough to keep on top of whatever balance is necessary to keep everything healthy, so there's a trade-off (maybe at the expense of not seeing many pods). If you add pods to a low nutrient system, I doubt the population will be able to sustain itself due to a lack of food.

[ChadTheSpike]

I dont currently culture amphipods, I did it a few years back mostly to make sure I had enough live food on hand for some SHs that I was trying to teach to eat frozen food, so I did not optimize my techniques. I did take reasonably good notes on my setup and maintenace though, sometimes it pays being obsessive and being way into this!!!

I used a 10 gallon tank at room temperature (75 fairly constant) that I lit with a 70w MH on a 12 on 12 off cycle (I tend to use MH for everything, Im sure less would work), the tank had 1/2 inch of sand and 2 lbs of LR rubble the only circulation was provided by a luft air pump without an airstone. I added 4 handfulls of ulva (which I had in my most productive fuge at the time), and innoculated with all the amphipods I could catch in my other systems (I dont know how many this was probably 1-200). I fed the tank daily with one pinch of new life spectrum food I had ground in a spice grinder, and started harvesting four weeks leter, there were more amphipods in the tank than I could count. I harvested 10-20 daily for the duration of the culture (5 months) and did not observe a visible change in the culture population.

For maintenance, I performed a biweekly 50% WC (filtered through a section of panty hose to save as many amphipods as possible) with water from the sump of my large system, detritus included. I also removed bristle worms I ran across during the WC, or noticed any other time.

Once set up this was a very simple thing to maintain and had the production that I was looking for. I would think that if you were just trying to restock a DT with them, you could set up the culture, keep it going for 6-8 weeks (or so) and then add all of the contents to your tank before starting it again. Also, tt takes about four weeks into their life cycle before they start producing young, which are live (the Plankton Culture Manual says this happens when they molt), which means that it would take a few months of unhindered growth before you hit the exponential growth phase (useful if you are trying to culture them as a food source).

Hope this helps!