stand cracking!

johnny313 · 12/07/2009, 02:06 PM

Anyone ever have a problem like this? 90 gallon stand started to crack about a week ago... top and bottom! tank is new, running for about a month. called Central aquatics ( AGA) for warranty information. Supported it for now until I hear back from them.

mdntrdr · 12/07/2009, 02:08 PM

Looks like wood just dried out to me.

Shouldn't be a structural problem IMO.

csueeman · 12/07/2009, 02:39 PM

Agreed. Visually it probably doesn't look nice. But doesn't look like it will cause any structural issues.

johnny313 · 12/07/2009, 02:45 PM

how can that be? thats the wood the tank is resting on! if that cracks more... won't the tank fall, no?

Jeremy Blaze · 12/07/2009, 02:49 PM

I would empty the tank and demand a new stand.

Even if it was cosmetic, that is unacceptable.

johnny313 · 12/07/2009, 02:54 PM

Im still waiting for them to call me back. I sent them pics too. Not only is it unaceptable, but now I have to drain the tank and sump... pretty much set up the tank again because of a defective stand!

davocean · 12/07/2009, 02:54 PM

If I recall correctly, those stands have tank sitting on a thin lip around bottom perimeter that is attatched to or rabbitted out of those cracked members, so yes, I would be concerned.
Lately I've been beefing up some of those stands for peeps in my local club for this reason.
One of our local guys got his tank only half filled and it started to crack, and he was on 4th floor.
This is why I'm not a fan of these minimal structure/material stands.
I think they look good on paper, but wonder if tested for shifting water weight and such.
I would drain that tank and brace it.

username in use · 12/07/2009, 03:13 PM

Whats the humidity in your house? Looks like dried out wood to me. Could be an issue, could be fine, its tough to tell. If your humidity in your house is less than 30 or 40 percent, you want to get a humidifier. 50 percent is ideal, especially when keeping wood products, whether it be a stand, or hardwood floors or nice furniture or especially guitars. usually the factories that manufacture wood products are climate controlled to be 50 percent, so if you maintain that, there wont be much movement in whatever it is you are dealing with.

johnny313 · 12/07/2009, 03:20 PM

its at 25% but still, it shouldnt crack like that. I actually heard it crack but I didnt know where it was coming from at the time.

username in use · 12/07/2009, 03:27 PM

25 percent is low. Wood will definitely crack like that at 25% humidity. Also, if you notice, the wood cracked between the two screws. if the front pieces of wood were to shrink more than the side pieces, then it would crack between the screws because the screws wont let the wood go anywhere, so it has to crack. It could happen if the wood was put together with one piece being fresher than the other, it could also happen if the grain spacing was significantly different from one piece to the next which would cause them to shrink and expand at different rates. Irregardless of this issue, you need a humidifier in your house to bring you up to around 50%, its better for the wood in your house, and it is better for your health too.

mikelaubach · 12/07/2009, 03:32 PM

25% is really low, and could be the cause of the dryout.

But from a product support point of view, that stand has been modified. You can see the added plywood on the uprights on the right edge and in the middle (might be on the left as well, but can't see it). This might cause you to run into problems from them, even if you say you did it to prevent it from falling - how do they know that is the case? Not saying that is what they WILL tell you or should tell you, but wanted to be sure all angles are considered.

danrobberg · 12/07/2009, 08:57 PM

its a shame those stands coast so much and are gargabe. you could build a stand that is ten times better for probably a quatrer of the price. those companies should be embarresed they sell such junk for such a steep price

Salamander · 12/07/2009, 09:49 PM

Bummer. I've had the same stand for 4 years now with no poblems, except that I wish I had something else. It just seems cheap.

My Rh is about 25% at the maximum and often gets to single digits for extended periods. I think it was a bad piece of wood or possibly a green piece which cracked once it dried.

johnny313 · 12/07/2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelaubach

25% is really low, and could be the cause of the dryout.

But from a product support point of view, that stand has been modified. You can see the added plywood on the uprights on the right edge and in the middle (might be on the left as well, but can't see it). This might cause you to run into problems from them, even if you say you did it to prevent it from falling - how do they know that is the case? Not saying that is what they WILL tell you or should tell you, but wanted to be sure all angles are considered.

the warranty department called me from central aquatics and i told him I added wood for support when I saw the cracking and he said that was a good thing to do until they come to a conclusion..
my LFS ordered me another one until CA resolves this. the worst thing that can happen is I have to buy a new stand... he said if I have to pay for it, it will be at his cost.

mikelaubach · 12/07/2009, 11:18 PM

Glad to hear they are doing the right thing!

That is not something that manufacturers do much of anymore.

DThompson · 12/07/2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by username in use

25 percent is low. Wood will definitely crack like that at 25% humidity. Also, if you notice, the wood cracked between the two screws. if the front pieces of wood were to shrink more than the side pieces, then it would crack between the screws because the screws wont let the wood go anywhere, so it has to crack. It could happen if the wood was put together with one piece being fresher than the other, it could also happen if the grain spacing was significantly different from one piece to the next which would cause them to shrink and expand at different rates. Irregardless of this issue, you need a humidifier in your house to bring you up to around 50%, its better for the wood in your house, and it is better for your health too.

50% humidity? Really? I don't see how this is possible unless you live in a humid state. That never should have cracked like that even living in Arizona. I think thats a defect, not anything to do with him having less than 50% humidity. If I am wrong, I would like to know why none of the wood in my house cracks when we have less humidity than he has? Just really curious about this.

thrillreefer · 12/08/2009, 01:51 AM

Could be cosmetic, but doesn't seem look a good time to find that out the hard way. It's a pain to take down the tank, but nothing compared to a collapse or even emergency teardown. Pretty unacceptable for a new stand as well. One thing I notice is that is seems to be painted but not sealed with several coats of something waterproof. I built my own canopy and made sure to add several coats of something waterproof (spar varnish, I belive) over the stain.

+1 on the anger at cheaply built aquarium furniture without cheap price tag. As a son of a contractor known for "bomb-proof" overbuilding, this morally offends me.

P.S. don't tell him that I bought a cheapo Drs F&S stand (luckily it has held up for 2.5 yrs)

username in use · 12/08/2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DThompson

50% humidity? Really? I don't see how this is possible unless you live in a humid state. That never should have cracked like that even living in Arizona. I think thats a defect, not anything to do with him having less than 50% humidity. If I am wrong, I would like to know why none of the wood in my house cracks when we have less humidity than he has? Just really curious about this.

If you are talking about wood floors, than the boards are generally only nailed on one side so that they are able to expand and contract with the humidity changes. Same with most wood furniture, it is built in a way that allows for expansion and contraction without restricting the woods movement. In the case of something like arizona, if your floors were installed at that low humidity, and the wood was stored at that humidity for a decent time before they were installed, you wont really notice anything. However, if your floors were installed in say 50-70 percent humidity, and then it drops to 25, you will notice the seams start to open up some. Maybe not dramatically but it happens. Same thing with furniture. Thats why you get a loose support spindle between two legs of a chair or on the back of a chair, the wood shrunk. But in the case of the stand, there are screws that wont allow the wood to move, so it physically has to crack if it shrinks enough.

njfish77 · 12/08/2009, 07:05 AM

I wonder if the wood cracks in the right way if the boards can shift somehow causing the tank to fall? If i were you id go with building a stand, cheap and reliable, just use some 2x4 and some finishing wood, then wood stain it.

BeanAnimal · 12/08/2009, 07:12 AM

You added temporary support AFTER the wood cracked... and took the time to paint it black?

BeanAnimal · 12/08/2009, 07:13 AM

In any case...

Is the stand sitting flat on the floor? Is the floor flat?

BeanAnimal · 12/08/2009, 07:14 AM

Also... It looks like there is a similar crack on the bottom support as well. It would appear that both pieces are cut from the same piece of lumber and it has dryed out and checked (cracked). Can you see the pieces on the back side along the wall?

insane · 12/08/2009, 07:25 AM

Modifying anything usually always voids a warranty. The guy that told you that it was a good thing to do was in the wrong for saying it if he is not the one that approves or denies warranty claims. They might use the modification as a way out of the claim. The company doesn't list the warranty on their website. Hope for the best but also know they can screw you out of replacing the stand. If you bought their stand and their tank together and you don't replace the defective stand with another one of their stands it will void the warranty on the tank as well. A glass tank from one of the major brands is usually only guaranteed by the manufacturer if it is on one of their own stands. They like their loopholes and don't like giving money back if they don't absolutely have to.

johnny313 · 12/08/2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

You added temporary support AFTER the wood cracked... and took the time to paint it black?

yes! I had the paint when i built my canopy. I didnt want my stand to be 2 toned!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

In any case...

Is the stand sitting flat on the floor? Is the floor flat?

yes the floor is perfectly level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane

Modifying anything usually always voids a warranty. The guy that told you that it was a good thing to do was in the wrong for saying it if he is not the one that approves or denies warranty claims. They might use the modification as a way out of the claim. The company doesn't list the warranty on their website. Hope for the best but also know they can screw you out of replacing the stand. If you bought their stand and their tank together and you don't replace the defective stand with another one of their stands it will void the warranty on the tank as well. A glass tank from one of the major brands is usually only guaranteed by the manufacturer if it is on one of their own stands. They like their loopholes and don't like giving money back if they don't absolutely have to.

I bought the stand and tank together, both AGA. Central aquatics actually called me today and said they will replace the stand for free!! finally something good came out of this. now the fun begins when the new stand arrives!

BeanAnimal · 12/08/2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane

Modifying anything usually always voids a warranty. The guy that told you that it was a good thing to do was in the wrong for saying it if he is not the one that approves or denies warranty claims. They might use the modification as a way out of the claim.

Some companies are they petty, others are not. I have no idea how united pet group treats warranty issues.

Quote:

If you bought their stand and their tank together and you don't replace the defective stand with another one of their stands it will void the warranty on the tank as well. A glass tank from one of the major brands is usually only guaranteed by the manufacturer if it is on one of their own stands. They like their loopholes and don't like giving money back if they don't absolutely have to.

That is actually not true at all. It is against the law to tie a warranty to the pruchase of associated products. The tank warranty is the tank warrant, no matter what stand it is used on. In order to void a tank warrant, the manufacturer would have to PROVE that the stand used by the customer caused a tank failure. In the same fashion a printer company can not void the printer warranty if 3rd party supplies (paper and toner) are used.

The manufactuer CAN offer extended warranty service based any criteria they choose. In the case of AGA, that may be additional YEARS or terms added to the warranty if THEIR stand is used. Again, they can NOT void the base warranty (all products have an implied warranty, that is also law) for NOT using their stand.

12/07/2009, 02:06 PM	#1
johnny313 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 649	stand cracking! Anyone ever have a problem like this? 90 gallon stand started to crack about a week ago... top and bottom! tank is new, running for about a month. called Central aquatics ( AGA) for warranty information. Supported it for now until I hear back from them.

12/07/2009, 02:08 PM	#2
mdntrdr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 550	Looks like wood just dried out to me. Shouldn't be a structural problem IMO. __________________ Midnight Rider Current Tank Info: 220G. AGA ~ RR ~ SSB mixed reef ~ 40G. DSB sump/fuge ~ GFO and GAC reactors ~ 72" Aqualight Pro ~ MRC-MR2 Skimmer ~ THAT'S HOW I RIDE!!!!

12/07/2009, 02:49 PM	#5
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	I would empty the tank and demand a new stand. Even if it was cosmetic, that is unacceptable. __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef

12/07/2009, 02:54 PM	#7
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	If I recall correctly, those stands have tank sitting on a thin lip around bottom perimeter that is attatched to or rabbitted out of those cracked members, so yes, I would be concerned. Lately I've been beefing up some of those stands for peeps in my local club for this reason. One of our local guys got his tank only half filled and it started to crack, and he was on 4th floor. This is why I'm not a fan of these minimal structure/material stands. I think they look good on paper, but wonder if tested for shifting water weight and such. I would drain that tank and brace it. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

12/07/2009, 03:13 PM	#8
username in use Sciencing Daily Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,560	Whats the humidity in your house? Looks like dried out wood to me. Could be an issue, could be fine, its tough to tell. If your humidity in your house is less than 30 or 40 percent, you want to get a humidifier. 50 percent is ideal, especially when keeping wood products, whether it be a stand, or hardwood floors or nice furniture or especially guitars. usually the factories that manufacture wood products are climate controlled to be 50 percent, so if you maintain that, there wont be much movement in whatever it is you are dealing with. __________________ Joshua "With fronds like these, who needs anemones?" - Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: multiple nano's sprinkled around the house

12/07/2009, 02:39 PM	#3
csueeman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Fort Collins Posts: 55	Agreed. Visually it probably doesn't look nice. But doesn't look like it will cause any structural issues.

12/07/2009, 02:45 PM	#4
johnny313 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 649	how can that be? thats the wood the tank is resting on! if that cracks more... won't the tank fall, no?

12/07/2009, 03:20 PM	#9
johnny313 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 649	its at 25% but still, it shouldnt crack like that. I actually heard it crack but I didnt know where it was coming from at the time.

12/07/2009, 03:27 PM	#10
username in use Sciencing Daily Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,560	25 percent is low. Wood will definitely crack like that at 25% humidity. Also, if you notice, the wood cracked between the two screws. if the front pieces of wood were to shrink more than the side pieces, then it would crack between the screws because the screws wont let the wood go anywhere, so it has to crack. It could happen if the wood was put together with one piece being fresher than the other, it could also happen if the grain spacing was significantly different from one piece to the next which would cause them to shrink and expand at different rates. Irregardless of this issue, you need a humidifier in your house to bring you up to around 50%, its better for the wood in your house, and it is better for your health too. __________________ Joshua "With fronds like these, who needs anemones?" - Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: multiple nano's sprinkled around the house

12/07/2009, 03:32 PM	#11
mikelaubach Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Durham, CT Posts: 1,367	25% is really low, and could be the cause of the dryout. But from a product support point of view, that stand has been modified. You can see the added plywood on the uprights on the right edge and in the middle (might be on the left as well, but can't see it). This might cause you to run into problems from them, even if you say you did it to prevent it from falling - how do they know that is the case? Not saying that is what they WILL tell you or should tell you, but wanted to be sure all angles are considered. __________________ --MIKE-- Current Tank Info: 65G drilled, 10G sump, MCE600 skimmer, BRS dual carbon GFO rector

12/07/2009, 08:57 PM	#12
danrobberg Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 962	its a shame those stands coast so much and are gargabe. you could build a stand that is ten times better for probably a quatrer of the price. those companies should be embarresed they sell such junk for such a steep price

12/07/2009, 09:49 PM	#13
Salamander Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 2,103	Bummer. I've had the same stand for 4 years now with no poblems, except that I wish I had something else. It just seems cheap. My Rh is about 25% at the maximum and often gets to single digits for extended periods. I think it was a bad piece of wood or possibly a green piece which cracked once it dried. __________________ I feel more like myself now than I did before. Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef, 2 x 250W DE MH, 2 x 54w T5, MSX 200 SKimmer, 2 Koralia 4's, 40g fuge/sump, QT

12/07/2009, 11:18 PM	#15
mikelaubach Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Durham, CT Posts: 1,367	Glad to hear they are doing the right thing! That is not something that manufacturers do much of anymore. __________________ --MIKE-- Current Tank Info: 65G drilled, 10G sump, MCE600 skimmer, BRS dual carbon GFO rector

12/08/2009, 01:51 AM	#17
thrillreefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 308	Could be cosmetic, but doesn't seem look a good time to find that out the hard way. It's a pain to take down the tank, but nothing compared to a collapse or even emergency teardown. Pretty unacceptable for a new stand as well. One thing I notice is that is seems to be painted but not sealed with several coats of something waterproof. I built my own canopy and made sure to add several coats of something waterproof (spar varnish, I belive) over the stain. +1 on the anger at cheaply built aquarium furniture without cheap price tag. As a son of a contractor known for "bomb-proof" overbuilding, this morally offends me. P.S. don't tell him that I bought a cheapo Drs F&S stand (luckily it has held up for 2.5 yrs)

12/08/2009, 07:05 AM	#19
njfish77 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 584	I wonder if the wood cracks in the right way if the boards can shift somehow causing the tank to fall? If i were you id go with building a stand, cheap and reliable, just use some 2x4 and some finishing wood, then wood stain it.

12/08/2009, 07:12 AM	#20
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	You added temporary support AFTER the wood cracked... and took the time to paint it black?

12/08/2009, 07:13 AM	#21
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	In any case... Is the stand sitting flat on the floor? Is the floor flat?

12/08/2009, 07:14 AM	#22
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Also... It looks like there is a similar crack on the bottom support as well. It would appear that both pieces are cut from the same piece of lumber and it has dryed out and checked (cracked). Can you see the pieces on the back side along the wall? Last edited by BeanAnimal; 12/08/2009 at 07:19 AM.

12/08/2009, 07:25 AM	#23
insane Moved On Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: under your bed Posts: 771 Blog Entries: 7	Modifying anything usually always voids a warranty. The guy that told you that it was a good thing to do was in the wrong for saying it if he is not the one that approves or denies warranty claims. They might use the modification as a way out of the claim. The company doesn't list the warranty on their website. Hope for the best but also know they can screw you out of replacing the stand. If you bought their stand and their tank together and you don't replace the defective stand with another one of their stands it will void the warranty on the tank as well. A glass tank from one of the major brands is usually only guaranteed by the manufacturer if it is on one of their own stands. They like their loopholes and don't like giving money back if they don't absolutely have to.