Phosban reactors or carbon ( why or why not)

jdthomas24 · 12/26/2009, 10:18 PM

I realize that the phosban reactors remove phosphates form the water. does most use them? when do you know you need one or you dont need one? Thinking of DIY one of them just to be safe.

Also some use carbon and some do not. why? i heard about carbon bags you just throw in your sump from time to time when you have an issue. Could someone please explain this to me.

thank you for your post

Shane Hoffman · 12/26/2009, 10:52 PM

Carbon IMO and IME is a must. Phosphate remover or GFO is only required when P04 levels get that high. GFO is a great tool to remove phosphates. Some will say if you have a phosphate issue you should find the source and remove not mask. To that I say I like to feed my fish heavy. I know the source and would rather feed my fish heavy and use GFO to remove the slight increase in phosphates. With GFO a reactor is a must. It requires a specific flow that will allow the GFO to tumble gently to avoid solidifying yet not so turbulent that it pulverizes itself. Now, carbon on the other hand is great and removing organics and clarifying water...it also removes odors and yellowness from water. It is also great at removing some "poisons". Carbon can be thrown in a mesh bag and tossed in a sump. This is known as passive flow. Water will randomly flow around it and occasionall through it. If you run carbon in a reactor it will force all water that goes through the reactor theough the carbon. This is the preferred method and will utilize the carbon much more efficiently. I run both carbon and GFO 24/7.

lordofthereef · 12/26/2009, 11:03 PM

Carbon bags are not as useful as reactors IMO simply because there is not at as much contact time or even contact of water and GAC. I would say if you were to pick one or the other, go with carbon. What size is your tank? I find that the TLF reactors work great for all kinds of media and they are really inexpensive. You can fins them in the selling forums frequently for $15-$20 shipped a piece. The carbon helps polish the colors and any chemicals include those which some corals exude as a defensive mechanism out of the water.

jdthomas24 · 12/26/2009, 11:44 PM

unfortunatly i can not view the selling forum as of yet.- 90 day rule- if they are that cheap i would love to find one or maybe two to have and i guess i could use one MJ pump for them both

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 12:36 AM

I agree with TLF reactors. I have two of them, one with carbon and one with Phosban.
The water goes through the Phosban one first, then the carbon.
Works well for me.

Jason Donohoe · 12/27/2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padi200

I agree with TLF reactors. I have two of them, one with carbon and one with Phosban.
The water goes through the Phosban one first, then the carbon.
Works well for me.

+1

I have a similar set up with the TLF reactors but run through the carbon first and then the GFO. Works great.

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 12:48 AM

One thing to be careful of, that many people don't mention, is NOT to lower your phosphates too fast. If you get a phophate reactor and add GFO it will decrease phosphates but if you do it too fast, corals may bleach. Like all other things in the reef tank, it is better to go slow.
Monitoring phosphates does not always help since a lot of it in bound up and not in the water. I suggest adding some GFO to a TLF reactor and watching the corals carefully also watch algae growth. That tells you a lot about phosphates.

I used to change the carbon and GFO at the same time. I think that was a mistake.
Now I only change one at a time. It is less likely to cause any rapid changes to the system.

flare1185 · 12/27/2009, 01:14 AM

im guessing no one here put phosphate and carbon remover in the same reactor?

scottwhitson · 12/27/2009, 01:20 AM

You need to have them seperated with something or the carbon will grind the GFO into dust.

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottwhitson

you need to have them seperated with something or the carbon will grind the gfo into dust.

1+

dots · 12/27/2009, 01:32 AM

I used a pair of the Via aqua reactors and found them to be the best.

There are benefits to using both products, however I found them to be costly (GFO especially), and a pain to maintain.....particularly if you "need" them for something.

I found doing larger WC's, more often was a better solution to the benifits either provided at the time.

Your question about "when to change" is a good one as well. As both rates are dependent on contact, the rate at which it is (effeciency of the delivery method), amount of substance in water.......

Testing for P04, is the most direct way for GFO.....when the rate is minimized without raising, and most the carbon and when it is replaced varying. I replaced it when the GFO was used up as that went quicker.

If the GFO was ground up and discharging.....obviously too late.....

I went full circle from using them, to not and found "less was more".

terri_ann · 12/27/2009, 03:05 AM

I use both in a large reactor from BRS. The reactor has a sponge that separates each media. I am thinking of getting another reactor so I can run each separately as they do not get spent at the same time in my tank.

lordofthereef · 12/27/2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flare1185

im guessing no one here put phosphate and carbon remover in the same reactor?

As many have said this can be done so long as they are separated. IMO the mariginal cost increase of using two reactors (they really are one of the least expensive things one can get if you go with the TLF brand) will save you the headache of having to switch medias around especially if one needs more frequnt swapping than another.

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 11:12 AM

There is a product called PURA Complete with with Beta-GFH (Beta Ferric Oxide Hydroxide) and carbon. I tried it and it just clumped up and did not work well for me at all. The other thing to remember, it the carbon and the GFO will most likely not need to be replaced at the same time. So two is the way to go.

jdthomas24 · 12/27/2009, 01:08 PM

ok, so the general is to use two for carbon and phosban. change products at different times and run them on something slow so that it does not grind up the products to quickly. does some not run either of them? i have a 150DT with a 30 gallon sump. Tank is still in the cycle process but if i needed them i was going to get ready to make some or buy some to run in the sump. i have seen where they both run together off one small pump which may be the way i go.

generally it seems soem only run one which seems to be carbon. what exactly does the carbon do for the tank?

phosban lowers phosphate levels but not needed until the is an established coral in the reef correct-- because coral releases phosphates.

DC_40gallon · 12/27/2009, 01:32 PM

You can add them both together but only do it with SeaChem Sea Gel. Sea Gel is a 50/50 mix of carbon and phosguard. Phosguard is seachems amazing phosphate remover. It is a rubbery BB sized and therefore can't be ground into a powder.

It also browns when it is expiring giving you an idea of when it is time to replace it.

12/26/2009, 10:18 PM	#1
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	Phosban reactors or carbon ( why or why not) I realize that the phosban reactors remove phosphates form the water. does most use them? when do you know you need one or you dont need one? Thinking of DIY one of them just to be safe. Also some use carbon and some do not. why? i heard about carbon bags you just throw in your sump from time to time when you have an issue. Could someone please explain this to me. thank you for your post

12/26/2009, 10:52 PM	#2
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	Carbon IMO and IME is a must. Phosphate remover or GFO is only required when P04 levels get that high. GFO is a great tool to remove phosphates. Some will say if you have a phosphate issue you should find the source and remove not mask. To that I say I like to feed my fish heavy. I know the source and would rather feed my fish heavy and use GFO to remove the slight increase in phosphates. With GFO a reactor is a must. It requires a specific flow that will allow the GFO to tumble gently to avoid solidifying yet not so turbulent that it pulverizes itself. Now, carbon on the other hand is great and removing organics and clarifying water...it also removes odors and yellowness from water. It is also great at removing some "poisons". Carbon can be thrown in a mesh bag and tossed in a sump. This is known as passive flow. Water will randomly flow around it and occasionall through it. If you run carbon in a reactor it will force all water that goes through the reactor theough the carbon. This is the preferred method and will utilize the carbon much more efficiently. I run both carbon and GFO 24/7. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

12/26/2009, 11:03 PM	#3
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	Carbon bags are not as useful as reactors IMO simply because there is not at as much contact time or even contact of water and GAC. I would say if you were to pick one or the other, go with carbon. What size is your tank? I find that the TLF reactors work great for all kinds of media and they are really inexpensive. You can fins them in the selling forums frequently for $15-$20 shipped a piece. The carbon helps polish the colors and any chemicals include those which some corals exude as a defensive mechanism out of the water. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

12/27/2009, 01:32 AM	#11
dots Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 6,258	I used a pair of the Via aqua reactors and found them to be the best. There are benefits to using both products, however I found them to be costly (GFO especially), and a pain to maintain.....particularly if you "need" them for something. I found doing larger WC's, more often was a better solution to the benifits either provided at the time. Your question about "when to change" is a good one as well. As both rates are dependent on contact, the rate at which it is (effeciency of the delivery method), amount of substance in water....... Testing for P04, is the most direct way for GFO.....when the rate is minimized without raising, and most the carbon and when it is replaced varying. I replaced it when the GFO was used up as that went quicker. If the GFO was ground up and discharging.....obviously too late..... I went full circle from using them, to not and found "less was more". __________________ ~Doug

12/27/2009, 03:05 AM	#12
terri_ann Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Marshalltown, IA Posts: 841	I use both in a large reactor from BRS. The reactor has a sponge that separates each media. I am thinking of getting another reactor so I can run each separately as they do not get spent at the same time in my tank. __________________ Happy Reefing!! :) Current Tank Info: 180g mixed 40B Anemone 5' raceway frag tank

12/26/2009, 11:44 PM	#4
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	unfortunatly i can not view the selling forum as of yet.- 90 day rule- if they are that cheap i would love to find one or maybe two to have and i guess i could use one MJ pump for them both

12/27/2009, 12:36 AM	#5
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	I agree with TLF reactors. I have two of them, one with carbon and one with Phosban. The water goes through the Phosban one first, then the carbon. Works well for me.

12/27/2009, 12:48 AM	#7
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	One thing to be careful of, that many people don't mention, is NOT to lower your phosphates too fast. If you get a phophate reactor and add GFO it will decrease phosphates but if you do it too fast, corals may bleach. Like all other things in the reef tank, it is better to go slow. Monitoring phosphates does not always help since a lot of it in bound up and not in the water. I suggest adding some GFO to a TLF reactor and watching the corals carefully also watch algae growth. That tells you a lot about phosphates. I used to change the carbon and GFO at the same time. I think that was a mistake. Now I only change one at a time. It is less likely to cause any rapid changes to the system.

12/27/2009, 01:14 AM	#8
flare1185 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 473	im guessing no one here put phosphate and carbon remover in the same reactor?

12/27/2009, 01:20 AM	#9
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	You need to have them seperated with something or the carbon will grind the GFO into dust.

12/27/2009, 11:12 AM	#14
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	There is a product called PURA Complete with with Beta-GFH (Beta Ferric Oxide Hydroxide) and carbon. I tried it and it just clumped up and did not work well for me at all. The other thing to remember, it the carbon and the GFO will most likely not need to be replaced at the same time. So two is the way to go.

12/27/2009, 01:08 PM	#15
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	ok, so the general is to use two for carbon and phosban. change products at different times and run them on something slow so that it does not grind up the products to quickly. does some not run either of them? i have a 150DT with a 30 gallon sump. Tank is still in the cycle process but if i needed them i was going to get ready to make some or buy some to run in the sump. i have seen where they both run together off one small pump which may be the way i go. generally it seems soem only run one which seems to be carbon. what exactly does the carbon do for the tank? phosban lowers phosphate levels but not needed until the is an established coral in the reef correct-- because coral releases phosphates.

12/27/2009, 01:32 PM	#16
DC_40gallon Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,474	You can add them both together but only do it with SeaChem Sea Gel. Sea Gel is a 50/50 mix of carbon and phosguard. Phosguard is seachems amazing phosphate remover. It is a rubbery BB sized and therefore can't be ground into a powder. It also browns when it is expiring giving you an idea of when it is time to replace it.