Suddenly my drain cannot keep up with the intake pump

[Spoff4]

I have a 75 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump under the main tank. The system has been running fine for 18 months or so. The main tank drains via an overflow in the corner and gravity feeds into the sump where the return pump feeds the water back to the main tank. While doing some routine maintenance, I noticed the water level in the main tank creeping up. I assumed something was partially blocking the overflow drain. I shut down the pump, disconnected the drain and blew through the line. There was no blockage in the drain. There also is no blockage from the main display through the grate into the overflow sump. There is a small tube sticking out of the top of the over flow drain, which I assume is intended to allow air into the drain. That tube is not blocked. Nonetheless, the drain still cannot keep up with the pump.
It must be something to do with the drain, but it's a gravity system, so what could it be? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Right now I have the intake flow restricted with a temporary clamp to maintain an equilibrium between intake and drainage.
Thanks.

[meco65]

Build up in the line.

[syrinx]

If it literally happened as you were working- then the line is partially blocked. You are not able to tell by blowing if a line is 100% or 80% open. Check the little weir edge past the slots on the inside of the overflow to see if it is blocked or clogged. On most it is removable. Generally it is a good idea to have your overflows able to overhandle your pump volume-in case there is a issue like this. One last question- is the water rising high in the overflow as well as in the tank? The answer should point to where the problem lies.

[7Dragons7]

i had this happen to me before and the first 6 inchs of the drain line was full of sponges. I just took a long brush and cleaned it out

[Lightsluvr]

Also look for algae inside your overflow box blocking the flow of water from the tank...Use a small brush to clean the "teeth" of your overflow. If the holes get blocked by accumulated algae or other debris, your tank's water level will slowly rise...

JME

LL

[fishox]

I agree with Lightsluvr. You should get a bottle cleaning brush to clean these teeth periodically. I had this problem and now it is part of my weekly maintenance to clean the teeth. I don't get the slowly rising water level anymore

[jkopp36]

Yep, same for me on the overflow teeth cleaning. It's amazing how little buildup it takes to make the DT water level rise.

[lordofthereef]

I am only going to guess that the OP is intelligent enough to see whether or not the teeth are being blocked by algae or anything. Frankly it is pretty hard to miss. My guess would be a plumbing occlusion.

[Playa-1]

What kind of routine maintenance were you doing?

[Dalmerjd]

I had a similiar problem...a snail climbed up the drain line from the sump and resticted the flow just enough.

[r-balljunkie]

perhaps you have an anomoly in the earths gravity field, just surrounding your tank.

its possible.

[syrinx]

Good one rball- I had a customer once that brought back a gravel siphon saying it didn`t work- used the same line as you pretty much.

[Lightsluvr]

[QUOTE=lordofthereef;16304922]I am only going to guess that the OP is intelligent enough to see whether or not the teeth are being blocked by algae or anything. Frankly it is pretty hard to miss. QUOTE]



It would be easy to miss if GHA is growing inside your overflow box because there are no algae eaters in there.. I took baseball-sized clumps of algae out of the overflows in my old 180 when I experienced the same problem... problem solved.

To the OP - if you find no obstructions in the overflow teeth, pull the standpipe out and see if the water "flushes" rapidly into your sump... that might be a clue there's a blockage in the tubing/pipe from the bulkhead to the sump that may have been overlooked in your first inspection.

Good luck.

LL

[Felix T Cat]

I learned this important lesson the other day with my HOB overflow. Over a week period I was manually adding more and more top off (do you have an auto top off). One day while adding water I looked up to see the water in the tank touching the bottom of the glass cross support.
AWE CR*P. I then started going through the system and found a HUGE amount of hair algae in the overflow tubes. slowing down the overflow enough to cause the tank level to rise.

[lordofthereef]

Originally Posted by Lightsluvr

It would be easy to miss if GHA is growing inside your overflow box because there are no algae eaters in there.. I took baseball-sized clumps of algae out of the overflows in my old 180 when I experienced the same problem... problem solved.

To the OP - if you find no obstructions in the overflow teeth, pull the standpipe out and see if the water "flushes" rapidly into your sump... that might be a clue there's a blockage in the tubing/pipe from the bulkhead to the sump that may have been overlooked in your first inspection.

Good luck.

LL

I suppose anything can be justified if your goal is simply to justify it, but missing something like that would require this person to not really be doing much maintenance on the tank (at least in the form of the overflow) and just not generally looking around the tank. I would also assume that when flow started getting restricted he/she at least took a look in that chamber. I don't know, maybe I expect too much of people?

By the way, sorry to have been butting heads lately. I like to give my opinion as much as you do and really do value all you have to say

[Lightsluvr]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

I suppose anything can be justified if your goal is simply to justify it, but missing something like that would require this person to not really be doing much maintenance on the tank (at least in the form of the overflow) and just not generally looking around the tank. I would also assume that when flow started getting restricted he/she at least took a look in that chamber. I don't know, maybe I expect too much of people?

By the way, sorry to have been butting heads lately. I like to give my opinion as much as you do and really do value all you have to say

Opinions are fine... unsupported criticism of other people's systems and methods are presumptive and rude.

The OP described a problem. Several people posted with suggestions to help solve the problem. No one asked for criticism or holier than thou observations...that's the difference.

Once again, remember this is the New to the Hobby forum...not the I know it all forum.

Your post starts out with, "I am only going to guess that the OP is intelligent enough to see whether or not the teeth are being blocked by algae or anything...."

What did that contribute to the thread?

In another thread, you stated, "Personally I think that this is more due to poor planning with pumps and such than anything else."

Again, contributing nothing to the topic.

In the other thread, the person who you assumed had poorly planned a 340 gallon masterpiece spoke his opinion, and I couldn't respond better myself:

"I'm sure the intake on the pump in your 10 gallon nano is very strong, but please remember the pump that this happened with is a 3/4 HP pump, the closed loop has 3 intakes...Please dont critisize my planning or equipment b/c there are many ways to skin a cat."

We won't bump heads anymore, lord. It's just not worth the annoyance. You are on my special list of invisible members.

LL

[mushroomhead]

I had the same problem and green hair algea was clogging the small holes at the top of the standpipe. It has happened enough to make me consider covering the top of the overflow box, but Im afraid this might cut down the flow by limiting the air intake.

[Lightsluvr]

Originally Posted by mushroomhead

I had the same problem and green hair algea was clogging the small holes at the top of the standpipe. It has happened enough to make me consider covering the top of the overflow box, but Im afraid this might cut down the flow by limiting the air intake.

The reason I had so much GHA in my overflows was due to the proximity of the light fixture. Not only did it put a lot of T5 lighting into the front edge of the corner overflows, it also partially obstructed access to them as well. It was necessary to move the light fixture forward on the tank in order to get into the overflow boxes...thus something that was neglected until I experienced the same problem as the OP. (So been there, done that)

Just something to consider.

LL

[jkopp36]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

I am only going to guess that the OP is intelligent enough to see whether or not the teeth are being blocked by algae or anything. Frankly it is pretty hard to miss. My guess would be a plumbing occlusion.

With all due respect, it takes very little "buildup" to slow my overflow down enough to raise the water level in the DT about 1/4". I usually can't even see anything blocking the teeth but a quick scrub makes all the difference in the world. I realize this might not be the answer to the OP's problem but it's one thing I've ran into - JME.

[syrinx]

I think the key to the issue is simply- "it happened while working on the tank,I noticed the water rising". This points to something that had just happened,as opposed to something growing. I agree with regular maint on the overflow- very important-but thats not the issue here. I am going to post my thoughts on the other thread -where they belong- on the other thread.

[919]

Come on guys take your bickering offline... Neither of you are contributing to the thread and are both equally wrong.

Originally Posted by Lightsluvr

Opinions are fine... unsupported criticism of other people's systems and methods are presumptive and rude.

The OP described a problem. Several people posted with suggestions to help solve the problem. No one asked for criticism or holier than thou observations...that's the difference.

Once again, remember this is the New to the Hobby forum...not the I know it all forum.

Your post starts out with, "I am only going to guess that the OP is intelligent enough to see whether or not the teeth are being blocked by algae or anything...."

What did that contribute to the thread?

In another thread, you stated, "Personally I think that this is more due to poor planning with pumps and such than anything else."

Again, contributing nothing to the topic.

In the other thread, the person who you assumed had poorly planned a 340 gallon masterpiece spoke his opinion, and I couldn't respond better myself:

"I'm sure the intake on the pump in your 10 gallon nano is very strong, but please remember the pump that this happened with is a 3/4 HP pump, the closed loop has 3 intakes...Please dont critisize my planning or equipment b/c there are many ways to skin a cat."

We won't bump heads anymore, lord. It's just not worth the annoyance. You are on my special list of invisible members.

LL

[MandM]

Did the water level return to normal or is this still a problem?

If the problem is still there, assuming you have checked the drain for obstruction (even a small amount of algae/sponge growth can reduce flow) and cleaned the overflow grate, the pump may still be putting out more flow than your drain can handle. Installing a gate valve on the output side of the return pump will allow you to restrict the flow into the tank if needed.

If things are OK now, the fact that you noticed this happening while you were doing maintenance indicates you may have done something that temporarily obstructed the drain. Perhaps a bit of something got stuck and ended up in the sump. A snail is a frequent offender here. Build-up in the return pump may also have suddenly been dislodged during the maintenance, causing an increase in output.

Either way, are things under control now?

[Lightsluvr]

[QUOTE=919;16308822]Come on guys take your bickering offline... Neither of you are contributing to the thread and are both equally wrong.[/QUOTE]

Really? To summarize:

Originally Posted by Lightsluvr

Also look for algae inside your overflow box blocking the flow of water from the tank...Use a small brush to clean the "teeth" of your overflow. If the holes get blocked by accumulated algae or other debris, your tank's water level will slowly rise...
JME
LL

Originally Posted by fishox

I agree with Lightsluvr. You should get a bottle cleaning brush to clean these teeth periodically. I had this problem and now it is part of my weekly maintenance to clean the teeth. I don't get the slowly rising water level anymore

Originally Posted by jkopp36

Yep, same for me on the overflow teeth cleaning. It's amazing how little buildup it takes to make the DT water level rise.

Originally Posted by Lightsluvr

It would be easy to miss if GHA is growing inside your overflow box because there are no algae eaters in there.. I took baseball-sized clumps of algae out of the overflows in my old 180 when I experienced the same problem... problem solved.

To the OP - if you find no obstructions in the overflow teeth, pull the standpipe out and see if the water "flushes" rapidly into your sump... that might be a clue there's a blockage in the tubing/pipe from the bulkhead to the sump that may have been overlooked in your first inspection.
LL

Originally Posted by Felix T Cat

I learned this important lesson the other day with my HOB overflow. Over a week period I was manually adding more and more top off (do you have an auto top off). One day while adding water I looked up to see the water in the tank touching the bottom of the glass cross support.
AWE CR*P. I then started going through the system and found a HUGE amount of hair algae in the overflow tubes. slowing down the overflow enough to cause the tank level to rise.

Originally Posted by mushroomhead

I had the same problem and green hair algea was clogging the small holes at the top of the standpipe. It has happened enough to make me consider covering the top of the overflow box, but Im afraid this might cut down the flow by limiting the air intake.

See how informative this thread is without the sarcasm?

Bye now.

LL

[Spoff4]

Seems the problem has been solved.
Thanks to all who provided constructive input. Being relatively new to the hobby, all suggestions are appreciated.
To close the loop-
Prior to the initial post, I had checked and cleaned the out fall grate. But, since blowing through the drain line prior to my post was arguably inconclusive, I disassembled the drain and reamed it with a sponge plug. There was zero build up in the drain and no wayward critters. In disassembling the drain, I removed the inverted "U" shaped PVC top of the out fall tube so I could see if anything was in the vertical tube. Seeing no restrictions in the drain or the "U" shaped top, I decided to leave the "U" top off and see if the drain could keep up with the return pump. So far, the tank flow is back to normal. Perhaps tomorrow I'll put the "U" back on just to see if my wife runs for the towels and mop, but it's good enough for now.
This leaves me with the conclusion that there was some sort of air lock in the drain line, or there was indeed an anomaly in the earth's gravity field. I'll check the latter tomorrow by dropping an apple adjacent to the tank.
Thanks again.

[r-balljunkie]

Originally Posted by Spoff4

..............or there was indeed an anomaly in the earth's gravity field. I'll check the latter tomorrow by dropping an apple adjacent to the tank.
Thanks again.

ok,

now that was funny. thanks for taking with a grain of salt, the comment that is.

if you need to me hold the stop watch, i can count for you 32.174 ft/s2 as the apple falls.

good luck.
C