Using copper-treated FO tanks for reef

watercolour · 01/08/2010, 02:23 PM

I have a 55gal standard and a 29 gal hex, both of which have been "in the dry" for years. Both were fish only tanks at one time and both have had coppersafe used in them. It seems I heard or read somewhere that tanks that have been treated with copper cannot EVER be used for reef tanks. Is this the general opinion here on the forum? Will I have to start from scratch. How about my magnum 350 and other equipment used at the time. Would these be forbidden to use as well? Thanks in advance for any and all input.

dawaterboy · 01/08/2010, 03:20 PM

I was told at an area LFS that you could use a glass tank that has had copper in it for a reef. Glass is less porous than plastic, and rock, so it takes more for the copper to really work it's way in. It isn't recommended but it has been done.
The only way I would do it is to fill the tanks a few times, and test them for copper. I would probably even let water sit for a few weeks before I did a final test.
On the other hand it's not like either of those tanks are very expensive to begin with, so it might not be worth all the testing just to make sure.

Shane Hoffman · 01/08/2010, 03:22 PM

You may find a person or two that says they would never use a tank that had been treated with copper. This will be the same person that tells you you need to rinse the toothbrush you use to clean your power heads in RO water or else your reef will die. I have succesfully kept a beautiful reef in a tank that was treated in copper. What I did was fill it with water and and 10 gallons of cheap vinegar...(it needed a cleaning). Once I realised it wasnt leaking from any seals after a week I cleaned it. I then rinsed it several times to insure there was no vinegar left. After that I filled it with fresh water and let it sit for a week. After the week was up I did a copper test. It read 0. To be safe I waited another week to see if any copper could leach out of the seals. It again tested 0. The reefhas been up and running for over a year. I also tested for copper after about 6 months when I was having a problem with an elegance. It tested 0. I have also read several posts where other individuals succesfuly used a tank that was treated with copper.

MikeTR · 01/08/2010, 03:53 PM

eh... I have pieces of coral that are more expensive than the cost of that tank new.. I'd be more concerned about it leaking as it's been sitting for years.

JRaquatics · 01/08/2010, 03:57 PM

There are many articles in the chemistry forum about this and the consensus is that it is a myth. My current tank was a FO that was treated many times with copper. I have yet to have any problems associated with its use.

jbardwel · 01/08/2010, 05:34 PM

As a scientist, I also think it is a myth. Here is the logic, if the copper is not tightly bound to the glass/ silicone or plastic it will be easily rinsed out, if it is tightly bound it will only very slowly leach out and could never reach the concentrations that could cause a problem. The surface of the tank is simply too small to bind a quantity of copper to significantly pollute all the water in a tant. Most salt mixes actually have measurable concentrations of heavy metals in them (including copper), but the manufacturers add EDTA which acts to chelate the trace metals drastically reducing their bioavailabilty. One salt that doesnt have either EDTA or copper is crystal sea bioassay salt and there are articles that this salt is particularly good for marine larval life forms, but very few reefers need to keep these alive (they are also destroyed by powerheads and most pumps)

GrampaDon · 01/08/2010, 05:57 PM

I would also use that tank. After it was leak tested and cleaned. But I'm not sure you need 10 gal of vinegar. 1 should be enough.

bertoni · 01/08/2010, 09:48 PM

Wiping the tank down with a cloth and some vinegar will remove whatever copper might have adsorbed onto the surface. The surface area of the glass tank isn't that large compared to live rock, which can cause big problems, so it's possibly not as much of an issue, but I'd still get rid of any copper on the glass.

01/08/2010, 02:23 PM	#1
watercolour Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N.E. AR Posts: 5	Using copper-treated FO tanks for reef I have a 55gal standard and a 29 gal hex, both of which have been "in the dry" for years. Both were fish only tanks at one time and both have had coppersafe used in them. It seems I heard or read somewhere that tanks that have been treated with copper cannot EVER be used for reef tanks. Is this the general opinion here on the forum? Will I have to start from scratch. How about my magnum 350 and other equipment used at the time. Would these be forbidden to use as well? Thanks in advance for any and all input. __________________ "Celebrate the moment as it turns into one more. Another chance at victory, another chance to score." Current Tank Info: Empty, glass boxes at the moment

01/08/2010, 03:22 PM	#3
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	You may find a person or two that says they would never use a tank that had been treated with copper. This will be the same person that tells you you need to rinse the toothbrush you use to clean your power heads in RO water or else your reef will die. I have succesfully kept a beautiful reef in a tank that was treated in copper. What I did was fill it with water and and 10 gallons of cheap vinegar...(it needed a cleaning). Once I realised it wasnt leaking from any seals after a week I cleaned it. I then rinsed it several times to insure there was no vinegar left. After that I filled it with fresh water and let it sit for a week. After the week was up I did a copper test. It read 0. To be safe I waited another week to see if any copper could leach out of the seals. It again tested 0. The reefhas been up and running for over a year. I also tested for copper after about 6 months when I was having a problem with an elegance. It tested 0. I have also read several posts where other individuals succesfuly used a tank that was treated with copper. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

01/08/2010, 05:34 PM	#6
jbardwel Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 104	solubility As a scientist, I also think it is a myth. Here is the logic, if the copper is not tightly bound to the glass/ silicone or plastic it will be easily rinsed out, if it is tightly bound it will only very slowly leach out and could never reach the concentrations that could cause a problem. The surface of the tank is simply too small to bind a quantity of copper to significantly pollute all the water in a tant. Most salt mixes actually have measurable concentrations of heavy metals in them (including copper), but the manufacturers add EDTA which acts to chelate the trace metals drastically reducing their bioavailabilty. One salt that doesnt have either EDTA or copper is crystal sea bioassay salt and there are articles that this salt is particularly good for marine larval life forms, but very few reefers need to keep these alive (they are also destroyed by powerheads and most pumps) __________________ Jim

01/08/2010, 09:48 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Wiping the tank down with a cloth and some vinegar will remove whatever copper might have adsorbed onto the surface. The surface area of the glass tank isn't that large compared to live rock, which can cause big problems, so it's possibly not as much of an issue, but I'd still get rid of any copper on the glass. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/08/2010, 03:20 PM	#2
dawaterboy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: waterford, mi Posts: 214	I was told at an area LFS that you could use a glass tank that has had copper in it for a reef. Glass is less porous than plastic, and rock, so it takes more for the copper to really work it's way in. It isn't recommended but it has been done. The only way I would do it is to fill the tanks a few times, and test them for copper. I would probably even let water sit for a few weeks before I did a final test. On the other hand it's not like either of those tanks are very expensive to begin with, so it might not be worth all the testing just to make sure.

01/08/2010, 03:53 PM	#4
MikeTR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SW FL Posts: 351	eh... I have pieces of coral that are more expensive than the cost of that tank new.. I'd be more concerned about it leaking as it's been sitting for years.

01/08/2010, 03:57 PM	#5
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	There are many articles in the chemistry forum about this and the consensus is that it is a myth. My current tank was a FO that was treated many times with copper. I have yet to have any problems associated with its use.

01/08/2010, 05:57 PM	#7
GrampaDon Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Fort Wayne ,IN Posts: 636	I would also use that tank. After it was leak tested and cleaned. But I'm not sure you need 10 gal of vinegar. 1 should be enough.