How strong (GPH) a pump do I need?

[TNTFISHY]

I'm setting up a 70 gallon reef tank, with a 20 gallon sump. How strong a pump do I need for proper circulation from sump to tank? Will any ole pump do as long as the GPH is enough? Thanks.

[MikeTR]

You'll need a pump that can keep up with your overflow.. if your overflow is 400gph, then you need a pump that will do at least that much including headloss. You'll also need some powerheads. I wouldn't skimp on it..

[seabayaquatic]

You want a minimum of 700 gph going through your filter a turnover of 10 times. I run my tanks with a turnover rate of 20 to 30 times per hour. This will keep your dissolved oxygen high, thus helping to stabilize your pH. Don't forget to calculate for head pressure and pipe diameter when establishing a pumps output.

[dawaterboy]

Are you trying to use your return for flow? Some will tell you to go big, and others will tell you to go smaller to allow more contact time in the sump/fuge. I'm running a Mag 7 on my 72 gallon, with a SCWD, and I'm happy with it. If I went to a Mag 9.5 I wouldn't need as many powerheads in the tank, but my skimmer would not have the contact time it does, nor would my macro algea.

[Piscez]

I have a 72 gal with a 20gal sump I use a EHEIM 1262 (898 gph) for my return pump but for flow I use a Vortech MP40W, hope that helps

[seabayaquatic]

Let me clarify my response. I have owned and operated an aquarium design company for the last 16 years. I have worked on 700+ aquariums and over the years have compiled quite a bit of data for what helps create a stable and successful aquarium. In my experience tanks with less than a 10x turnover rate have frequent pH swings, more outbreaks of ick and a limited capacity for the number of fish you can keep.

Originally Posted by seabayaquatic

You want a minimum of 700 gph going through your filter a turnover of 10 times. I run my tanks with a turnover rate of 20 to 30 times per hour. This will keep your dissolved oxygen high, thus helping to stabilize your pH. Don't forget to calculate for head pressure and pipe diameter when establishing a pumps output.

[spleify]

I agree with the last two post here. For return, you want to stay on the low end. A good general rule of thimb is 3-5 X tank volume turn over/hour through your sump/refugium. Like mentioned, you want a slower flow rate through your sump, for more contact time. If things are moving through there to fast, you are not letting the skimmer and macro algaes do there job.

You then want to supplement your flow in your display tank with other means, ie. powerheads or the like.

HTH

Good luck

[TNTFISHY]

You guys are awesome! Thanks.

[Chiefsurfer]

Originally Posted by MikeTR

You'll need a pump that can keep up with your overflow.. if your overflow is 400gph, then you need a pump that will do at least that much including headloss. You'll also need some powerheads. I wouldn't skimp on it..

I am sorry, your reasoning here is wrong. You are saying you want a pump that has MORE flow than your overflow. That is wrong. What you want is a pump that can NOT do as much as the overflow. With a standard overflow, it overflows when water is pumped in. This example is an exaggeration, but consider this. You have an overflow rated at 1000 gph, and a pump of 2000 gph flow. In one hour, you will pump 2,000 gallons up to the DT, and that same DT will only drain 1000 gallons of water. If the DT is right at the rim, you would then have 1000 gallons of water on your floor. Like I said, an exaggeration, but you get the point.

So when choosing the pump, make sure that the pump cannot exceed your overflow. IF you are pumping straight up(sump below tank) and you have a few 90 degree elbows, you CAN use a pump rated the same as your overflow(the increased height and 90's will deffinately lower that flow rate), but a little bit smaller might be best.

I don't know what most people use, but I got a "pondmaster" for my water changes. The pump is VERY strong, is designed to run all the time, fairly low amp-draw, and is made to pump water UP.

[Lightsluvr]

This thread would sure confuse me if I was a newbie. The OP asked a simple question about GPH for his return pump. He didn't imply that his return pump would be the only flow in his tank. Suggesting 20-30x flow through a sump would be impractical.

I agree with the answer in which it was recommended that he determine the maximum flow rate for his overflow - usually 600 gph in most reef-ready tanks - and then get a pump that is rated somewhat higher - for example 700-900 gph. This higher capacity pump would accomodate head loss naturally expected from pumping water up to the tank height, plumbing friction, elbows, etc. Using a ball valve on the output of his pump, you can adjust the pump's output for the perfect amount of water into the overflow. You can always valve back a pump, but you can't get more out of an underrated pump.

After the return/overflow is accomplished, then you can decide what type of pumps or powerheads you want for the water movement in the tank. That's where the mystical 20-30x turnover rate is often suggested. Most reefers with smaller tanks utilize powerheads like the MaxiJet, Koralia, Tunxe or Vortech, with budget often making the selection. A Maxijet sells for around $30, while the Tunze and Vortechs range between $300-$400.

By the way, "Pondmaster" pumps are also known as "Mag" pumps in the aquarium hobby. They are all made by the Danner Corporation. They are very popular, but not especially efficient. They are known for generating a lot of heat for the volume of water they handle. For example, the Mag 9.5 is rated at 950gph and uses 93 watts. The Eheim 1262 is rated at 868gph and uses 28 watts. Power consumed usually means more heat produced.

Good luck with your tank.

LL

[Fish Ace]

Originally Posted by Chiefsurfer

I am sorry, your reasoning here is wrong. You are saying you want a pump that has MORE flow than your overflow. That is wrong. What you want is a pump that can NOT do as much as the overflow. With a standard overflow, it overflows when water is pumped in. This example is an exaggeration, but consider this. You have an overflow rated at 1000 gph, and a pump of 2000 gph flow. In one hour, you will pump 2,000 gallons up to the DT, and that same DT will only drain 1000 gallons of water. If the DT is right at the rim, you would then have 1000 gallons of water on your floor. Like I said, an exaggeration, but you get the point.

So when choosing the pump, make sure that the pump cannot exceed your overflow. IF you are pumping straight up(sump below tank) and you have a few 90 degree elbows, you CAN use a pump rated the same as your overflow(the increased height and 90's will deffinately lower that flow rate), but a little bit smaller might be best.

I don't know what most people use, but I got a "pondmaster" for my water changes. The pump is VERY strong, is designed to run all the time, fairly low amp-draw, and is made to pump water UP.

I do beleive your closer to the money than others. First rule do not exceed what your drains can handle. So what you need to know is what is your head. There's a nice calulator here on home page. Once you know the head choose a pump to your liking that will pump out at that head and not exceed typical return of your drain size. 1" is about 600 gph. Now things to consider what type of pump internal or external, is it quite, how about wattage. Can a 20 gal sump handle this ? Probably with good baffeling. Using powerheads will let you make up some flow rates, but 10x though that sump probably won't cut it unless drains can handle it.

[Daimyo68]

Just setup my 70g tank, with a 29g sump (approx 21g of water) here's what I went with and some explanation:

QuiteOne 4000 return pump - After head loss (elbows, unions, ball valve's) I am at roughly 540gph through the overflow, into the sump and back into the tank. (return plumbing is 1" pvc). I also have my return line supplying my fuge.

Powerheads:
2 - Koralia 2 = 1200gph, they provide most of the movement in my tank
2 - Koralia 1 = 800gph, 1 provides "spot" flow for corals that require more flow, and 1 is providing water fow behind the rock work so that there is no chance of detritus buildup.

Skimmer - AquaMedic turboflotor Multi SL - The skimmer pump is 625gph, so this gives me more than enough contact time.


Here's a calculator to use to determine Return Pump Headloss: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2...=1&Entrances=1

Find out what your overflows will do for gph. Once you do that, then use the calculator to figure out headloss with the pump you are thinking about buying. As mentioned previously, you do not want to "outflow" your overflows, so choose a pump that will give you enough flow and not "out-pace" your drains.

Once you have made a decision on the return pump, then you can figure out what powerheads you will need in your tank to get your "turnover" rate to where you want it.

[NirvanaFan]

Originally Posted by seabayaquatic

Let me clarify my response. I have owned and operated an aquarium design company for the last 16 years. I have worked on 700+ aquariums and over the years have compiled quite a bit of data for what helps create a stable and successful aquarium. In my experience tanks with less than a 10x turnover rate have frequent pH swings, more outbreaks of ick and a limited capacity for the number of fish you can keep.

Are you saying that you think that low flow through the sump causes outbreaks of ich?


Like was said before, find out the gph of your overflow. Once you find that out, you will be able to decide on a pump. I'm a big fan of eheim pumps. I use a 1260 on my 75g with 29g sump.

[Chiefsurfer]

I think what seabay aquatic is saying that you need a total turnover of more than 10x to AID in the prevention of ich outbreaks. For terms of this discussion, I believe, we are simply quoting pump size for sump return, and NOT talking about total turnover.

[t-bone2]

every tank is different rocks, livestock, lighting and maintenance I use a mag 9.5 on my 210 with 50 gal fudge for 7 yrs works great for me. you can but a larger pump and put a valve on it to throttle it back or let it flow all open that way you only have to buy on pump instead of experimenting with more money.

[TNTFISHY]

I appreciate all the input people. I'm think Pondmaster 700 gph, with two Koralia 2's. Within my budget, and should get me started alright?

[Daimyo68]

Originally Posted by TNTFISHY

I appreciate all the input people. I'm think Pondmaster 700 gph, with two Koralia 2's. Within my budget, and should get me started alright?

I think you should go 1 step up to the mag9 on the return pump. Even with no elbows, unions, etc, the average 4foot up to the top of the tank, you will only be at approx 440gph. With the Mag9 you will be at approx 700gph.

So Mag7 (440gph) + 2 K2's (1200pgh) your only at 1640gph, which is 23x turnover (and that's with no bends turns, nothing). Save a few more dollars and get a Mag9.
Check the Used Equipment and Drygoods forums and you can get them cheap: http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Have you figured out your plumbing yet? Size, elbows, unions, etc? You should figure this all on paper and then make your choice on the return pump using the calculator.

[Fish Ace]

Originally Posted by Daimyo68

I think you should go 1 step up to the mag9 on the return pump. Even with no elbows, unions, etc, the average 4foot up to the top of the tank, you will only be at approx 440gph. With the Mag9 you will be at approx 700gph.

So Mag7 (440gph) + 2 K2's (1200pgh) your only at 1640gph, which is 23x turnover (and that's with no bends turns, nothing). Save a few more dollars and get a Mag9.
Check the Used Equipment and Drygoods forums and you can get them cheap: http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Have you figured out your plumbing yet? Size, elbows, unions, etc? You should figure this all on paper and then make your choice on the return pump using the calculator.

I fully agree

[NirvanaFan]

You still need to make sure you know what the capacity in GPH your overflow is. I use 3 Koralia 3 on my 75g tank with my Eheim 1260 return.

[Daimyo68]

You still need to make sure you know what the capacity in GPH your overflow is

Forgot to add that...i should go to bed earlier