CYCLING MEDIA FOR QT Help Please!!!

[oceans12]

I Have been reading alot of posts on ick and have come to the conclusion to use the cupramine dosing and fallow tank for 12 weeks. Question is, I need to prepare filter sponge for QT and if I soak it in DT sump, wont I be reinducing ick to the QT?

[Sk8r]

I never cycle a qt tank. I just prepare a nice bare tank the way the lfs receives new fish. I go back 20 years in technology, and just use a carbon filter (takes care of the ammonia) plus filter floss, changed quite often. I test the water daily, run a heater, but no lights, and as long as you keep the ammonia/nitrate at 0 by filter changes (get a big jar of carbon and a big packet of filter floss---you can even use brand new polyfiber pillow stuffing, which is sometimes cheaper)---and a box of ladies kneehigh nylons to use as throwaway carbon bags.
Now, mind, if you are going to dose copper, this would kill off any bacteria you would have by cycling anyway. I would NOT use it on healthy fish, and in fact, would prefer hypo, if there is an active case of ich in the lot; but that's a choice dictated by species and experience. Be sure that copper IS the best choice for the species you have.

You will never be able to use this tank for inverts or corals or cycled bacteria. Your nets and pump and hose likewise should be reserved for hospital use only...If you use hypo, you will not contaminate things; but stuff once used in copper should be clearly labeled and set aside NOT to be used in the tank.

[PRDubois]

+ 1

[oceans12]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I never cycle a qt tank. I just prepare a nice bare tank the way the lfs receives new fish. I go back 20 years in technology, and just use a carbon filter (takes care of the ammonia) plus filter floss, changed quite often. I test the water daily, run a heater, but no lights, and as long as you keep the ammonia/nitrate at 0 by filter changes (get a big jar of carbon and a big packet of filter floss---you can even use brand new polyfiber pillow stuffing, which is sometimes cheaper)---and a box of ladies kneehigh nylons to use as throwaway carbon bags.
Now, mind, if you are going to dose copper, this would kill off any bacteria you would have by cycling anyway. I would NOT use it on healthy fish, and in fact, would prefer hypo, if there is an active case of ich in the lot; but that's a choice dictated by species and experience. Be sure that copper IS the best choice for the species you have.

You will never be able to use this tank for inverts or corals or cycled bacteria. Your nets and pump and hose likewise should be reserved for hospital use only...If you use hypo, you will not contaminate things; but stuff once used in copper should be clearly labeled and set aside NOT to be used in the tank.

Thanks for the info Sk8tr, I would prefer the hypo method, Yes I do have ick infected fish, primarily blue hippo. My Mystery wrasse showed signs today by scratching, and Bartletts Anthias. Hawaiin Flame wrasse seems healthy. There are about 13 fish. I was concerned because sounds like others have lost mystery wrasse in hypo.

[KingwoodMarcia]

For your QT, it needs to be bare bottom. By taking a filter pad from the display take in putting it into the QT, will help out in the bacteria setup. Granted that copper will kill a lot of the bacteria but it still haves it benifits.

To set my QT up, I did a water change in the main display, used that water to start the QT, along with a filter pad from the main dispaly. Waited a day. Then put the fish in.

Yes, the water from the display tank might have ick in it, but there is no host for it to hook on to. One you intro your fish, and the copper, you can lower the salinity by doing small water changes in the QT.

Benifits using tank water, the PH should be the same, same "stuff in the water", and it is not a big shock to an already stress out fish.

Works for me.

Good luck.

[lordofthereef]

IMO it is not bad to put cycled media into the QT to make your life a little easier and give you a bit more peace of mind. That said, if you know you have ick the meds will probably kill all the life on your cycled media anyway, so it isn't worth it. If after a few days of a new fish being in the tank with cycled media you see signs of disease, treat like you normally would and just toss the media.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by oceans12

I Have been reading alot of posts on ick and have come to the conclusion to use the cupramine dosing and fallow tank for 12 weeks. Question is, I need to prepare filter sponge for QT and if I soak it in DT sump, wont I be reinducing ick to the QT?

Cycling a medium for QT is very very very ...easy.

After you have soaked the sponges in DT for a day or two, (better yet let return water run over it for a few hours to collect bacteria seed), you put the sponges in the filter intended for QT. You can actually just use some DT water (say as a part of wc for DT) to cycle with and some bacteria seed will be included in the water.

Easiest is a canister filter but a HOT power box will do. If the QT tank itself is not in use now, you can cycle in the QT tank. Else, you cycle in a separate container.

For a canister filter a 5 gal bucket will be very good to cycle in. For a HOT filter, a rectangular shaped container is needed.

After you are sure about the setup (water flow, surface sweeping etc) you just add a source of ammonia. I add to achieve 5 ppm N ammonia in days 1, 14, 21 and perhaps day 28. Your cycle will be done in 5 weeks.

Cycling for QT and without recently collected LR is easier since you have no lives to save on any live rock. I call it cycling from the dead. You do not need to change any water during the whole cycle and then you dump the cycling water after the cycle. All the bacteria are on the medium. Make sure that the water paremeters are close as you transfer the medium.

I suggest that you use enough medium to loosely fill the filter compartment.

For 12 weeks of QT to eradicate ich, a well-cycled medium in QT in advance is necessary. Otherwise, you fish will be subject to sub-lethal ammonia and/or you will have to do much extra work in wc in QT.

BTW, if you drip water on a medium instead of using a power filter and having the medium submerged, it takes only about three weeks to cycle.

QTing without nitrification for eight or more weeks is basically a joke.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

IMO it is not bad to put cycled media into the QT to make your life a little easier and give you a bit more peace of mind. That said, if you know you have ick the meds will probably kill all the life on your cycled media anyway, so it isn't worth it. If after a few days of a new fish being in the tank with cycled media you see signs of disease, treat like you normally would and just toss the media.

Copper or hypo (gradual) will not affect nitrification bacteria significantly.

When there is only ich to be concerned about and not other concurrent diseases, it is very easy to eliminate ammonia in QT for 8-12 weeks.

If concurrent bacterial infection occur during ich eradication, the issue of ammonia in QT becomes more complex. Even then, nitrification usually can still function marginally for some antibiotics that affect nitrification rather mildly.

[Playa-1]

I like to use a sponge filter and let it live in the sump for a couple of weeks before I set up my QT. Then transfer the sponge over to the QT. If I were to treat with Copper or something harsh like that, then I would just run with no sponge during the treatment and do daily water changes. Then after the treatment I would do a water change and run some carbon before introducing the seeded sponge filter to the QT.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Playa-1

I like to use a sponge filter and let it live in the sump for a couple of weeks before I set up my QT. Then transfer the sponge over to the QT. .

This works only if the bioload during QT is very low in comparison to that in the DT.

This is robbing the DT for use in the QT. This is what I call resourcefulness when in a bind, but not something you plan to do if you are doing things in advance.

Moreover, in order to rob the DT sucessfully, the sponge has to be located in the best area for nitrification in DT, where water movement is the highest. Otherwise, little bacteria will grow on the sponge because the DT has little bulk excess ammonia. The DT is at nitrification equilibrium, unlike during a cycle.

Always cycle the medium separately if you have time as you should because you always plan ahead. This way you are creating more bacteria, not robbing the DT to be used in QT. You can surely handle a lot of ammonia from more bioload in QT with much greater confidence.

"If I were to treat with Copper or something harsh like that, then I would just run with no sponge during the treatment and do daily water changes. Then after the treatment I would do a water change and run some carbon before introducing the seeded sponge filter to the QT"

Copper is not harsh on nitrification bacteria. The impact is low. Always use nitrification against ich. You are talking about 8 or more weeks and the need to have very low ammonia, WC in QT against ich must not be a plan. It will be very tiresome and expensive with nitrification in QT for eight or more weeks.

[oceans12]

Thanks For all your help, knowledge, and experience. I have seen many of your post wooden reefer, and I value your input. Thanks again.