Algae > me. Please help.

Anemone0524 · 01/31/2010, 04:17 PM

Entering month 8 of my first saltwater tank. It's been a long 8 months of battling various types of algae.

Symptoms
-Started with hair algae. Manually removed it, and it went away.
-Then came bryopsis. Spiked magnesium to 1800, and it went away.

-Then came a leafy sort of algae i still haven't been able to identify. It spreads slow, but I can't get rid of it.

-Most recently i have red turf algae. It spreads very fast. I can't get rid of this.

-Did I mention the bryopsis is returning?

I'm not looking for advice on temporary solutions, like introducing a plague of snails, or tangs. I need advice on how to eliminate the food source for this algae. Here's what i've tried before:

>Refugium - my chaeto never grew, and so I assumed it never sucked a nutrient out of the water. Had lighting on for 12 hours reverse, and it never grew.

>Feedings down to once a day - I feed Rod's Food frozen food, with either Kent Garlic additive or Selcon.

>Vodka Dosing + MB7 - Now on week three of this schedule. NO3 down to 2.5. I still haven't found a useful way of testing phosphates, but I know the algae must be eating something.

>Upgraded to a Vortech powerhead, thinking maybe the algae would be disturbed by increased flow.

>I run a BRS double canister of Activated Carbon, always have.

Here's a picture of my sump system not doing its job, and a picture of my skimmer not pulling enough nutrients out.

Last test results:
N03 2.5
DKH - 9.0
MG - 1560
CA - 400
SG - 1.026
Temp - 80

Anything else I can do here folks? I'm pretty close to shutting down the whole thing and getting out. Algae seems to grow despite my best efforts.

PaxRoma · 01/31/2010, 04:26 PM

manual removal + GFO is the best long term maintainance in my case. I have just get rid of my cyano.

Do you have a calcium reactor? you may want to drip the effluent to the chaeto area so it won't be deprived of CO2. Macroalgae needs
Nitrate
phosphate
CO2
iodine
light
flow
so it can thrive

Anemone0524 · 01/31/2010, 06:17 PM

What do you mean Pax? Currently i have 25% of the drain goig to te fuge, 75% going through skimmer.

It's moot anyway, since i've heard some people take chaeto out when they get into Vodka dosing because the chaeto dies from not enough nutrents in ULNS.

PaxRoma · 01/31/2010, 06:25 PM

vodka supplies organic carbon (not CO2) for bacteria that out compete Nitrate +Phosphate that the plants also need. Plants however does not use organic carbon, they need CO2 and they produce organic carbon. So no, CO2 is not the same as vodka.

luther1200 · 01/31/2010, 06:41 PM

Keep on schedule with the vodka, and I would start running some HC GFO. I use the HC from BRS and I really like it. And your tank is still pretty young, all tanks go through algae cycles. It should work itself out if you stay on top of everything.

livingcorals · 01/31/2010, 07:10 PM

Is it only the rocks than?
You could try Blue legs, margarita snails, and turbos.
You should pull the rocks out and scrub them down some. The cleaning crew will not munch over tall weeds

This should help for the most part keeping it under control. Also keep your refug light on 24/7. (what bulb are you using) This could also starve out the unwanted algae.
Tank, yellow eye would help some.

The 4th pic down looks like halimeda.
Sally Litefoots could munch as well with foxface, young emeralds crabs, as well with blue legs. Hit or miss.

Also what glue did you use for the plumbing?

Anemone0524 · 01/31/2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luther1200

Keep on schedule with the vodka, and I would start running some HC GFO. I use the HC from BRS and I really like it. And your tank is still pretty young, all tanks go through algae cycles. It should work itself out if you stay on top of everything.

I read somewhere that it was counterproductive to run GFO when carbon dosing, although I don't know why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingcorals

Is it only the rocks than?
You could try Blue legs, margarita snails, and turbos.
You should pull the rocks out and scrub them down some. The cleaning crew will not munch over tall weeds

This should help for the most part keeping it under control. Also keep your refug light on 24/7. (what bulb are you using) This could also starve out the unwanted algae.
Tank, yellow eye would help some.

The 4th pic down looks like halimeda.
Sally Litefoots could munch as well with foxface, young emeralds crabs, as well with blue legs. Hit or miss.

Also what glue did you use for the plumbing?

Yes, the algae is only covering the rocks. The rocks can't come out. I thought it would be a great idea to epoxy and arylic rod my rocks together.

I'm using a 6500 kelvin bulb, 75 watt bulb. I havesome blue leg hermits,but they are so small they barely make an impact. I'm also trying to figure out source of the problem, and less how to deal with the symptom.

tkeracer619 · 01/31/2010, 08:36 PM

Where did you get your rock from?

How often and how large are your water changes?

What is your TDS of your top off & wc water?

Is your skimmer working properly? How many days since cleaning in the picture?

Did you stir the sand bed to make it white before taking the pics?

PaxRoma · 01/31/2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anemone0524

I read somewhere that it was counterproductive to run GFO when carbon dosing, although I don't know why.

the heterotropic bacteria that proliferate in vodka dosing need organic carbon +nitrate+phosphate. GFO take out phosphate, therefore in theory could limit the reproduction of these bacteria (they need all 3 components to reproduce).

Anemone0524 · 02/01/2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Where did you get your rock from?

How often and how large are your water changes?

What is your TDS of your top off & wc water?

Is your skimmer working properly? How many days since cleaning in the picture?

Did you stir the sand bed to make it white before taking the pics?

It's 50% Marco rock (Key Largo) and 50% 'live' from a local reputable fish store.

0 TDS on top off and wc.

It had been 1-2 days since last cleaning in that picture.

No i didn't stir the bed - the one shining constant i've had in my tank is a stunning sand bed, thanks in most part to my Diamond Goby. Kudos to him.

Why do you ask all that?

Chiefsurfer · 02/01/2010, 05:14 PM

The rock, because phosphate and nitrates can be ABSORBED by the rock. Sometimes when people get used rock, it can be loaded with phosphates, and could cause MONTHS of algae issues through no fault of the new owner.

If your TDS even is like a 2-5ppm, it could be a BAD 2-5ppm, containing silicates which in the right conditions are algae magnets.

I have heard other people be pretty harsh on that brand of skimmer. And also, unless that is like a 500 gallon rated skimmer in a 55 gallon system, that is not nearly a good amount of skimmate in 2 days.

Recently stirred sand-bed, that is USUALLY not disturbed, could easily release nutrients into the tank, causing problems such as these.

My questions,
Do you have photosynthetic animals in the tank? If so, what kind, and how many?

If you do NOT have photosynthetic animals, my suggestions are:

First, turn lights off, 24 hrs a day for 7 days. If you do have photosynthetic corals, turn them off for 3 days.

Stop vodka. Run a GFO, and a turf-scrubber. Check the DIY forum for a nice, easy, cheap turf-scrubber. Basically put a plastic screen from your hardware store in a 30 gallon kitchen trash can. Shine a 6700K bulb on it. Have a return pump at the bottom, and let overflow water flow down the screen, kinda like one of those water-falls that cascade down a wall like they have at some restaurants. This will purposely grow turf algae on the screen to outcompete other algaes. Even with no phosphates from the gfo, I would think it could still grow from nitrates.

Also, when you get the frozen food, thaw it and rinse it in RO/DI water. I have heard(although not specifically about rod's) that frozen foods that are fed directly thawed are huge phosphate additives, because the slurry that encapsulates the food is all phosphates.

malawinovice · 02/16/2010, 03:42 PM

any one just turn over the rocks?

Tunjee · 02/16/2010, 03:47 PM

Could cheap carbon be leaching phosphorus into your water? Have you checked phos level?

reefbro · 02/16/2010, 03:48 PM

I pulled the rocks with bryopsis and propane torched them. Then scrubbed them with salt water. So far so good. Its been about a month now.

malawinovice · 02/16/2010, 03:57 PM

any one try a qt tank in the dark for 2 weeks?

I am also fighting the red turf algae,

tuxedo urchin is doing well, but one wont cut it and dont want to get 4 -5 and then deal with returning/eliminating them.

01/31/2010, 04:17 PM	#1
Anemone0524 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NoVA Posts: 434	Algae > me. Please help. Entering month 8 of my first saltwater tank. It's been a long 8 months of battling various types of algae. *Symptoms* -Started with hair algae. Manually removed it, and it went away. -Then came bryopsis. Spiked magnesium to 1800, and it went away. -Then came a leafy sort of algae i still haven't been able to identify. It spreads slow, but I can't get rid of it. -Most recently i have red turf algae. It spreads very fast. I can't get rid of this. -Did I mention the bryopsis is returning? I'm not looking for advice on temporary solutions, like introducing a plague of snails, or tangs. I need advice on how to eliminate the food source for this algae. Here's what i've tried before: >Refugium - my chaeto never grew, and so I assumed it never sucked a nutrient out of the water. Had lighting on for 12 hours reverse, and it never grew. >Feedings down to once a day - I feed Rod's Food frozen food, with either Kent Garlic additive or Selcon. >Vodka Dosing + MB7 - Now on week three of this schedule. NO3 down to 2.5. I still haven't found a useful way of testing phosphates, but I know the algae must be eating something. >Upgraded to a Vortech powerhead, thinking maybe the algae would be disturbed by increased flow. >I run a BRS double canister of Activated Carbon, always have. Here's a picture of my sump system not doing its job, and a picture of my skimmer not pulling enough nutrients out. Last test results: N03 2.5 DKH - 9.0 MG - 1560 CA - 400 SG - 1.026 Temp - 80 Anything else I can do here folks? I'm pretty close to shutting down the whole thing and getting out. Algae seems to grow despite my best efforts. __________________ Aaron 150g rimless 60x30x20, ATI Sunpower x8, 2 48" Reefbrite Blue LED, MSX 200, Vortech MP40w x 2, BRS CA/ALK Dosers, Biopellets and GFO

01/31/2010, 06:17 PM	#3
Anemone0524 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NoVA Posts: 434	What do you mean Pax? Currently i have 25% of the drain goig to te fuge, 75% going through skimmer. It's moot anyway, since i've heard some people take chaeto out when they get into Vodka dosing because the chaeto dies from not enough nutrents in ULNS. __________________ Aaron 150g rimless 60x30x20, ATI Sunpower x8, 2 48" Reefbrite Blue LED, MSX 200, Vortech MP40w x 2, BRS CA/ALK Dosers, Biopellets and GFO

01/31/2010, 06:41 PM	#5
luther1200 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NJ, shore Posts: 4,376	Keep on schedule with the vodka, and I would start running some HC GFO. I use the HC from BRS and I really like it. And your tank is still pretty young, all tanks go through algae cycles. It should work itself out if you stay on top of everything. __________________ Matt, 65G reef tank Current Tank Info: 65g reef, mix of sps, lps, few softies. Hoping to upgrade within the year.

01/31/2010, 08:36 PM	#8
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Where did you get your rock from? How often and how large are your water changes? What is your TDS of your top off & wc water? Is your skimmer working properly? How many days since cleaning in the picture? Did you stir the sand bed to make it white before taking the pics? __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

02/01/2010, 05:14 PM	#11
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	The rock, because phosphate and nitrates can be ABSORBED by the rock. Sometimes when people get used rock, it can be loaded with phosphates, and could cause MONTHS of algae issues through no fault of the new owner. If your TDS even is like a 2-5ppm, it could be a BAD 2-5ppm, containing silicates which in the right conditions are algae magnets. I have heard other people be pretty harsh on that brand of skimmer. And also, unless that is like a 500 gallon rated skimmer in a 55 gallon system, that is not nearly a good amount of skimmate in 2 days. Recently stirred sand-bed, that is USUALLY not disturbed, could easily release nutrients into the tank, causing problems such as these. My questions, Do you have photosynthetic animals in the tank? If so, what kind, and how many? If you do NOT have photosynthetic animals, my suggestions are: First, turn lights off, 24 hrs a day for 7 days. If you do have photosynthetic corals, turn them off for 3 days. Stop vodka. Run a GFO, and a turf-scrubber. Check the DIY forum for a nice, easy, cheap turf-scrubber. Basically put a plastic screen from your hardware store in a 30 gallon kitchen trash can. Shine a 6700K bulb on it. Have a return pump at the bottom, and let overflow water flow down the screen, kinda like one of those water-falls that cascade down a wall like they have at some restaurants. This will purposely grow turf algae on the screen to outcompete other algaes. Even with no phosphates from the gfo, I would think it could still grow from nitrates. Also, when you get the frozen food, thaw it and rinse it in RO/DI water. I have heard(although not specifically about rod's) that frozen foods that are fed directly thawed are huge phosphate additives, because the slurry that encapsulates the food is all phosphates. __________________ Chief Current Tank: 20 Gallon tall, 4-bulb t5 HO, Eshopps psk75H, ac-70 fuge. So far, green clown goby, striped goby, more gorillas than I wish I had, 5 SPS frags, 3 LPS Frags, 1 Softee, Turkey Wing Clam. Plan for the future: 120 gallon 4ft glass tank. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon tall Reef Tank

01/31/2010, 04:26 PM	#2
PaxRoma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: H town, TX Posts: 421	manual removal + GFO is the best long term maintainance in my case. I have just get rid of my cyano. Do you have a calcium reactor? you may want to drip the effluent to the chaeto area so it won't be deprived of CO2. Macroalgae needs Nitrate phosphate CO2 iodine light flow so it can thrive

01/31/2010, 06:25 PM	#4
PaxRoma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: H town, TX Posts: 421	vodka supplies organic carbon (not CO2) for bacteria that out compete Nitrate +Phosphate that the plants also need. Plants however does not use organic carbon, they need CO2 and they produce organic carbon. So no, CO2 is not the same as vodka.

01/31/2010, 07:10 PM	#6
livingcorals Moved On Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,730	Is it only the rocks than? You could try Blue legs, margarita snails, and turbos. You should pull the rocks out and scrub them down some. The cleaning crew will not munch over tall weeds This should help for the most part keeping it under control. Also keep your refug light on 24/7. (what bulb are you using) This could also starve out the unwanted algae. Tank, yellow eye would help some. The 4th pic down looks like halimeda. Sally Litefoots could munch as well with foxface, young emeralds crabs, as well with blue legs. Hit or miss. Also what glue did you use for the plumbing?

02/16/2010, 03:42 PM	#12
malawinovice Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 677	any one just turn over the rocks?

02/16/2010, 03:47 PM	#13
Tunjee Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winchester VA Posts: 404	Could cheap carbon be leaching phosphorus into your water? Have you checked phos level? __________________ "You gotta be smarter than the equipment you operate." Current Tank Info: 20gallon reef external glass overflow, diy light 175w 20k XM MH, 65w Actinic PC, 65w 10k PC, LED moonlight, OceansMotion, Velocity T-2 650gph, Euro-reef ES-52,RO/DI auto top off, pinpoint PH meter, diy acrylic sump, titanium pro II heater....

02/16/2010, 03:48 PM	#14
reefbro Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: central arkansas Posts: 71	I pulled the rocks with bryopsis and propane torched them. Then scrubbed them with salt water. So far so good. Its been about a month now.

02/16/2010, 03:57 PM	#15
malawinovice Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 677	any one try a qt tank in the dark for 2 weeks? I am also fighting the red turf algae, tuxedo urchin is doing well, but one wont cut it and dont want to get 4 -5 and then deal with returning/eliminating them.