Flatworm Exit

[Kdocimo90]

Well I think I'm going to bite the bullet and use flatworm exit for my 210g softy/lps tank. I've been skeptical as to whether to use is or not, whereas I don't want to lose all my corals after 2 years of working on the tank. Here's what I plan on doing, and if you could correct me/reinforce some ideas that would be great.

-Siphon out as many flatworms as I can for about a week
-Get a bucket with 1 gallon of saltwater and a few flatworms, and figure out which ratio works best in relevance to how much will kill the flatworms
-Dose the tank using this ratio
-Do a 50% water change
-Run carbon through my phosban reactor (as oppose to phosphate media).
(If flatworms still remain later on)
-Double the dosage and repeat other steps.


SOME Q's
How does this look?
What actually happens when the tank is dosed with the FWE? Do the flatworms just float on up as the water color fogs up (due to the toxins)?
How easy is it to siphon the dead flatworms out (when doing a water change)?
How long after the dosage do I start doing a water change?

Do you think it would be safer to just siphon out the flatworms as much as possible, and try a Yellow Coris Wrasse? I honestly really hate using chemicals in the tank, and I know its not the FWE that would be killing the livestock, but rather the toxins, it is just that I am afraid of going this route and losing all I've got after spending so much time and money on this tank.

Thanks for your help,
Kevin

[Johnny C]

I was in your shoes about a week ago and happy to report back with positive results. I was definatly very skeptical about adding the chemical to my tank and a bit worried about ill-effects with my fish and coral. Besides a messy sandbed, I couldn't and still can't notice any harm to my reef. After a week of constant siphoning (use small airline tubing with a plastic stick, works well and doesn't take out a lot of water) I dosed the recommended amount by Salifert. Within five minutes I saw literally hundreds of flatworms 'webbing up' into balls and floating into my powerhead. The end result was a bucket of thousands of reddish/brown flatworms and a sandbed that needed a serious gravel-vac. It's only been two days but I haven't seen a single living flatworm since. Hope this helps!

PS- If you click on my username and check my build thread you can see a pic of all the FWs I siphoned.

[triggerfish2]

I second that! I had this issue some months back, and as usual, i was rather skeptical initially.

Hence, i only dosed HALF of the stated instructions. Loads of flatworms were seen floating soon after, i tried to scoop out as many as possible using the fish net, and after which, changed the carbon and a pail of water ((NSW).

I repeated the process daily for almost a week, until i grew tired of the routine of changing water, hence, changed only once per week.

To conclude, it was very effective, and I suffered no casualties. Extremely pleased with the results, however, u need to stock up extra bottles of these solutions as they could be wiped off the shelves within a short span of time. You wouldnt want to get into a situation where mid-way, you ran out of these medication and need to wait for another month or so.

hope it helps.

[Bluetangclan]

No problems here. I simply syphoned for three days and used the stuff. It looked like fall as the browninsh worms floated all over and my fish thought it was a smorgasboard and were eating them out of the water column as fast as the could. Very few ended up in some clam areas on the bottom. I did a water change the next day. Added some more exit to my top-off water two days later and saw no new ones. Been clear now for several months. I think some of my zoos closed up for a little while but no other negatives and no losses amoung my fish, LPS, SPS or softies.

[Squanto804]

I also was agonizing over whether to do it or not and finally took the plunge Sunday. I have tried spotted mandarin and 2 velvet nudis , but there is so many the have not even seen a dent in the population of flatworms.
I have a 280 gal tank and used one bottle to treat. Was amazed how many died right away! Tried to catch the bodies in a net but was a losing battle. Even turned off my tunzes to see if they would float to the top but they dont, they float all over the tanks, curled up (very small) which makes it impossible to siphon. But the ones on the bottom seemed to be stuck on slime strings and there would be lots of them stuck, so would siphon those out. Just kept cleaning my sponge filter in the sump. Before treating I had about 40% water change ready and had siphoned as many worms as I could get but there was sooo many of them.

When I treated, I turned off my pump to the sump but left my Tunzes running. Let the treatment in the main tank sit for about 40 minutes then turned on the main pump and put about 4 large bags of carbon in the sump. About 2 hours later I did about a 20% water change.
Was very happy with the results and had no casualties The only things that seemed bothered was my serpent starfish's which both took food that night. Also, the anemones curled up for a few minutes but were fine right away.
It's been a couple days now and have noticed a few worms on the glass so will probably treat again this Sunday.
I see people upping the amount of treatment but I think I'll just stick with the same treatment I did the first time.

Scott

[Squanto804]

What do you all think caused the serpent starfish to have problems, the dying flatworms or the treatment?

Thanks, Scott

[tmz]

I've used FWE for dips and treatment. Siphon out all you can. Dose 100% of recommended dose. Point apowerhead into the rock work. Siphon them out as they die and float out. An over the side filter without carbon helps with this . After 40 mins to an hour add fresh granulated activated carbon. Wait a week and repeat if necessary ,a 150% dose will not hurt.

Acoela do leave eggs so a second or even 3rd treatment may be needed.

[thegrun]

For a 210, you may want to have a friend there to help siphon up the little monsters. The biggest risk to your tank is from the toxins they release as they are dying, so the quicker you suck them out of the tank the better. I've only had to use FWE once (I treat all my corals now before introduction), but it went well for me and I didn't have a single coral or fish die in the process.

[Kdocimo90]

Good to hear that there are so many success stories. I would assume all the failures are off the board and out of the hobby though so I cant have my hopes too high.

Would anyone happen know what kind of flat worms I have? They are super super dark red.

[Navyblue]

If you have any starfishes, get them out first. I had a brittle star that curls up like crazy and loses its spine.

*And if my memory serves*

It seems that the tiny hitchhiker serpent stars were killed too. The banded serpent star and the little white hitchhiker starfishes seems pretty unaffected.

May be I got a bad batch, or an especially resistant batch of flatworm. I dosed according to the dosage and the flatworms are still crawling around. I ended up dosing multiple times the recommended dosage and let it soak for a really long time (around 12 hours or so I think) to make those pests die. The good thing was that I treated the rocks outside of display tank.

[knockout]

flatworm exit can get very expensive as a treatment, check this thread for an alternative
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1379099

[Beaun]

I was seriously considering using FWE when I had a really bad infestation of FW in my tank. They were everywhere, but I ended up trying biological control rather than chemicals. I ended up getting a Halichoeres leucoxanthus (yellow & purple wrasse) which erradicated my FW within a month or two. Many in the Halichoeres genus will eat flatworms (H. melanurus, H. chrysus, H. richmondi, H. claudia); the only issue is that they may eat your shrimp if you have any. I didn't have any shrimp and I dont care to have them either way, but I did not want FW's so I went down that road.

My brother did use FWE on his rocks when he was changing tanks. He had a bucket filled with tank water that he over dosed with FWE. We dunked the rocks in the water and swished around for a while, then pulled it out and washed it off in another bucket for a second and put it in the new tank. There were thousands of FW's in the first bucket when we were done (~40-50lbs of rocks), it was very disgusting water afterwards. I would not want that in my tank.

[Kdocimo90]

Originally Posted by knockout

flatworm exit can get very expensive as a treatment, check this thread for an alternative
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1379099

Yeah I've seen that thread before. I think I'm gonna try FWE first and if it doesn't work, I'll go that route.

Originally Posted by Beaun

I was seriously considering using FWE when I had a really bad infestation of FW in my tank. They were everywhere, but I ended up trying biological control rather than chemicals. I ended up getting a Halichoeres leucoxanthus (yellow & purple wrasse) which erradicated my FW within a month or two. Many in the Halichoeres genus will eat flatworms (H. melanurus, H. chrysus, H. richmondi, H. claudia); the only issue is that they may eat your shrimp if you have any. I didn't have any shrimp and I dont care to have them either way, but I did not want FW's so I went down that road.

My brother did use FWE on his rocks when he was changing tanks. He had a bucket filled with tank water that he over dosed with FWE. We dunked the rocks in the water and swished around for a while, then pulled it out and washed it off in another bucket for a second and put it in the new tank. There were thousands of FW's in the first bucket when we were done (~40-50lbs of rocks), it was very disgusting water afterwards. I would not want that in my tank.

Still got that wrasse? Is it for sale ?
Yeah I have a few shrimp, but would rather have no shrimp and no flatworms than shrimp AND flatworms lol. This is why I'm wondering if I should just constantly siphon out as much as I can and get a wrasse.

[HOB]

Originally Posted by Beaun

My brother did use FWE on his rocks when he was changing tanks. He had a bucket filled with tank water that he over dosed with FWE. We dunked the rocks in the water and swished around for a while, then pulled it out and washed it off in another bucket for a second and put it in the new tank. There were thousands of FW's in the first bucket when we were done.

I was skeptical at first too as I didn't want to kill anything else but the flatworms. I knew that I was moving so I put up with them and when the time came to move, I did the same.

I did notice that I lost alot of the small serpent starfish hitchhikers but now after a year later, I see them around in my tank so it didn’t kill then all. From this and what others have said, I would recommend removing any starfish before treatment.

I tried a few variety of wrasses and a velvet slug (I believe) that were suppose to eat them with no success or maybe there were just too many in the 350 gal and I didn't give it enough time.

[Kdocimo90]

Would QT'ing the wrasse and tossing in a few flatworms ever so often (not feeding anything else) help? I know that whatever I put in my DT my fish always try to take a nibble of it, regardless of whether it's food or a a net, etc... I of course wouldnt starve the fish to death, but would it be worth a shot?

[Kdocimo90]

^^^

[Radioheadx14]

I followed the directions and it worked quite well on my 34g solana. I did not have any predatory flatworms, just lots of the little harmless ones. they were annoying so I used flat worm exit and everything was fine.

[Beaun]

My wrasse was not eating them at first, but I would feed early in the morning before it was awake and everything else was and it really went to town on them. I hear they are hit and miss, but if you make sure you are not overfeeding then they should start looking for food, and flatworms fill that gap. I hear the melanurus wrasse is one of the best for flatworms.

[tkeracer619]

Don't do any testing on your own flatworms to determine a dose. Use the instructions on the box. You don't want them to die immediately you want them to suffer for a while as you suck them out.

The instructions are there so you don't loose your fish. The corals are fine, its the fish you have to worry about killing if you do it improperly. It's not the FWE its the toxins the flat worms produce and if you change the dose you don't know how fast you will kill them off.

Unless you have a huge phosphate reactpr IME you will need to figure out something else. If they are TLF forget it. You need a canister filter with some flow through it.

[Tswifty]

As everyone else has said... siphon as many out as you can prior to treatment, then follow the instructions and you'll be fine. A good safeguard when dosing any type of chemical to your tank is to keep a lot of mixed saltwater (ready to go) and fresh carbon on hand.

Good luck.

[Kdocimo90]

Ok well. I have made new plans. Well not really new plans but, ADDED plans. Being that I have always had ICH in my tank, and have just aided with garlic over the years, I'm wanting to get more fish, so I think I'm gonna try my best to get my fish out before I treat with Flatworm Exit.

I plan on using copper treatment or hyposalinity. Also, this will be my first time QT'ing. Right now all I have is 2 clownfish, 2 chromis (which I'll probably give away), and 1 diamond watchman goby. Total, I'll probably have 3 tangs, 2 clownfish, a diamond watchman goby, and maybe some anthias or a wrasse after I buy new fish (from an online site).

My questions are...
If I plan on getting a few more fish soon (maybe all the fish I'll ever have), should I just use copper treatment/hyposalinity for ALL of them (my current fish and the new fish)?

What size QT would you recommend for that many fish?
Is it already to QT/use this treatment in a rubbermaid tank?

Any recommendations of what I should do as far as QT'ing and treating for ich?



Thanks!

[knockout]

Ick, there will always be ick in the tank, I you like to spare the fish the FW treatment is cool to take them out as they do get very sluggish, I've never used copper but I guess whatever you use you'll be trowing away! or not use it for your reef again! I dont think a rubbermaid container is the best for those fish, a 75 gallon tank will be best IMO hypo and create some hiding places with PVC pipes

[Kdocimo90]

yeah I was planning on adding a few big PVC pieces in there (especially for the diamond goby). I figured a 75-120g tank would do. The smaller the better though, because my RODI system is kind of slow.

What should I have on the QT? A hang on filter, powerhead, lights, and a heater?

I wouldnt necessarily throw the tank away, I would just keep invertebrates out of it, and just use it for other QTs/treatments in the future (which hopefully wont be necessary!)

[knockout]

Originally Posted by Kdocimo90

What should I have on the QT? A hang on filter, powerhead, lights, and a heater?

all of the above, light does not have to be anything special, just something to give the fish the day/night cycle

[Kdocimo90]

Yeah I have an extra dual 175watt MH that I could use.

Ich cant be carried on shrimp correct? Otherwise it wouldnt be worth doing this treatment because it would be impossible getting the shrimp out.