Freshwater Breeder looking to dabble into the salt.

CoryWM · 03/01/2010, 01:49 PM

Little info about myself:

I work for a LFS, one of the last Fish only stores in our area. We specialize in African cichlids. Myself and the owner breed a lot of them as well. Breeding a couple thousand fry a month. I have experience breeding wild caught, etc. I currently have 19 tanks setup from 9 gallon to 305g custom.

We have a few tanks at work that have been setup salt much before I worked there. 100g+ tanks. So I'm doing a little learning there when I get spare time. But it's mostly been left up to me to do anything to them if I want too.

Goal: Breed cardinals, I happen to like bangaii cardinals, but will most likely start with Pajama cardinals. As I can pick them up cheap. I happen to really like the bangaii cardinals, so if breeding is a failure all is not lost. Loved these guys for a while.

Next I have a ton of questions. It'll probably take me a month to get my salt setup, and much longer to cycle etc. So plenty of time for people to put in their input.

1. Is there any way to setup a self suffecient saltwater system? Achieving it in freshwater isnt too hard. Fully plant the tank with high nitrate uptake plants, and you'll have to actually dose nitrates etc. - Point is to avoid water changes, and only have to do topoffs, and minimal suppliements. This obviously will be defficult, and not achieved from the get go. Just wondering If I can plan to have that setup. Makes setting up lots of breeder/fry tanks easier.

2. First sample tank. 29g tank, plumbed with 2 1" drain/return lines. Sump/fuge being a 29g, dual stand setup. Will invest in a protein skimmer(havent done enough research to decide on one). Whats the verdict on this supporting a breeding pair of cardinals? Likely to start with 6 juvies until pairing off happens.

3. Lighting, having infinite access to freshwater lighting is a plus. Plus it's easy to setup cheap lighting via 6500k bulbs from home depot etc. I see that a lot of you have adopted that for the fuges.

With 6500k lighting, what is growable? I assume a lot of the macro algaes. Are there any corals? I heard Kenya Tree(spelling?) Are almost unkillable. I may just have to end up adding actnic light obviously. But my goal here is to reproduce cardinals and macro algaes. Corals from my initial research seem to be more of decoration, I'm looking for more functionality.

4. Substrate options. As I am trying to avoid saltwater changes until I have a few tanks setup etc.(obviously I'll have to do changes, just want to alliviate it, as I still have to do a ton of freshwater maintence for my breeders) Is a DSB better? I've considered going bare bottom. Keeping the debris suspended in the water column, will the protein skimmer eventually break them down? Or will it be like freshwater, where you just use your powerheads to have it collect in a corner and siphon it out? Are there substrates out there better for the DSB? Crushed coral? A sand that is heavier? I want to have ample current in there, and light sand will be problematic I think.

5. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply. I hope none of these questions are too outlandish. I'm having a much harder time researching these questions, than I would in freshwater.

bertoni · 03/01/2010, 06:28 PM

To Reef Central

1. Water changes seem to be a necessity in the saltwater environment. They help remove compounds that are slow to degrade, and help maintain a reasonable ionic balance.

2. I'm not an expert on cardinals, but 29g should be fine for two fish. You might need a good skimmer, etc, since you'll be feeding them a lot, I suspect.

3. Lighting for a fish-only system is just for your viewing pleasure. For corals, PC will work for soft corals and other low-light animals. It gets more expensive from there. Macroalgae vary greatly in their requirements. You'll need to pick some species and work from there.

4. A DSB might help remote nitrate from the system, and do some filtration, but they are optional. Some tanks have enough flow that a bare-bottom system requires no siphon-cleaning. I suspect most don't.

The coarser substrates tend to collect debris, and I am not willing to clean substrates, so I avoid them. I think that's a common choice.

CoryWM · 03/01/2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

To Reef Central

1. Water changes seem to be a necessity in the saltwater environment. They help remove compounds that are slow to degrade, and help maintain a reasonable ionic balance.

2. I'm not an expert on cardinals, but 29g should be fine for two fish. You might need a good skimmer, etc, since you'll be feeding them a lot, I suspect.

3. Lighting for a fish-only system is just for your viewing pleasure. For corals, PC will work for soft corals and other low-light animals. It gets more expensive from there. Macroalgae vary greatly in their requirements. You'll need to pick some species and work from there.

4. A DSB might help remote nitrate from the system, and do some filtration, but they are optional. Some tanks have enough flow that a bare-bottom system requires no siphon-cleaning. I suspect most don't.

The coarser substrates tend to collect debris, and I am not willing to clean substrates, so I avoid them. I think that's a common choice.

I agree with the coarse substrate, I am tempted to run a DSB in the sump, and barebottom in the "display" tank.

Just got back from looking at all the local saltwater stores. Rather unimpressed so far

All the saltwater stores, still had freshwater as their main attraction. Did find who had better prices than others, being Monday morning, Didnt really get a chance to chat it up, to see who had the most knowledge. As Prices arn't everything. I value healthy fish etc more

03/01/2010, 01:49 PM	#1
CoryWM Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 10	Freshwater Breeder looking to dabble into the salt. Little info about myself: I work for a LFS, one of the last Fish only stores in our area. We specialize in African cichlids. Myself and the owner breed a lot of them as well. Breeding a couple thousand fry a month. I have experience breeding wild caught, etc. I currently have 19 tanks setup from 9 gallon to 305g custom. We have a few tanks at work that have been setup salt much before I worked there. 100g+ tanks. So I'm doing a little learning there when I get spare time. But it's mostly been left up to me to do anything to them if I want too. Goal: Breed cardinals, I happen to like bangaii cardinals, but will most likely start with Pajama cardinals. As I can pick them up cheap. I happen to really like the bangaii cardinals, so if breeding is a failure all is not lost. Loved these guys for a while. Next I have a ton of questions. It'll probably take me a month to get my salt setup, and much longer to cycle etc. So plenty of time for people to put in their input. 1. Is there any way to setup a self suffecient saltwater system? Achieving it in freshwater isnt too hard. Fully plant the tank with high nitrate uptake plants, and you'll have to actually dose nitrates etc. - Point is to avoid water changes, and only have to do topoffs, and minimal suppliements. This obviously will be defficult, and not achieved from the get go. Just wondering If I can plan to have that setup. Makes setting up lots of breeder/fry tanks easier. 2. First sample tank. 29g tank, plumbed with 2 1" drain/return lines. Sump/fuge being a 29g, dual stand setup. Will invest in a protein skimmer(havent done enough research to decide on one). Whats the verdict on this supporting a breeding pair of cardinals? Likely to start with 6 juvies until pairing off happens. 3. Lighting, having infinite access to freshwater lighting is a plus. Plus it's easy to setup cheap lighting via 6500k bulbs from home depot etc. I see that a lot of you have adopted that for the fuges. With 6500k lighting, what is growable? I assume a lot of the macro algaes. Are there any corals? I heard Kenya Tree(spelling?) Are almost unkillable. I may just have to end up adding actnic light obviously. But my goal here is to reproduce cardinals and macro algaes. Corals from my initial research seem to be more of decoration, I'm looking for more functionality. 4. Substrate options. As I am trying to avoid saltwater changes until I have a few tanks setup etc.(obviously I'll have to do changes, just want to alliviate it, as I still have to do a ton of freshwater maintence for my breeders) Is a DSB better? I've considered going bare bottom. Keeping the debris suspended in the water column, will the protein skimmer eventually break them down? Or will it be like freshwater, where you just use your powerheads to have it collect in a corner and siphon it out? Are there substrates out there better for the DSB? Crushed coral? A sand that is heavier? I want to have ample current in there, and light sand will be problematic I think. 5. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply. I hope none of these questions are too outlandish. I'm having a much harder time researching these questions, than I would in freshwater.

03/01/2010, 06:28 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	*To Reef Central* 1. Water changes seem to be a necessity in the saltwater environment. They help remove compounds that are slow to degrade, and help maintain a reasonable ionic balance. 2. I'm not an expert on cardinals, but 29g should be fine for two fish. You might need a good skimmer, etc, since you'll be feeding them a lot, I suspect. 3. Lighting for a fish-only system is just for your viewing pleasure. For corals, PC will work for soft corals and other low-light animals. It gets more expensive from there. Macroalgae vary greatly in their requirements. You'll need to pick some species and work from there. 4. A DSB might help remote nitrate from the system, and do some filtration, but they are optional. Some tanks have enough flow that a bare-bottom system requires no siphon-cleaning. I suspect most don't. The coarser substrates tend to collect debris, and I am not willing to clean substrates, so I avoid them. I think that's a common choice. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni