very stupid noob question

daniel89 · 03/04/2010, 11:47 PM

So a friend of mine told me that i could add some fish and use BIO-SPIRA to cycle the tank just like a fresh water tank. Im a little curious about this. As i want my tank to be a reef tank later on. About quarter of my live rock (30lbs) has coraline algea on it the other (100lbs of dead rock) is no where near even showing some growth on it.

So if i bought this cycling agent and bought 4 clown fish to go in my 125g tank would it work? and i tested my water a day ago and there is no ammonia nitrite or nitrate suprizingly :s

johnmaloney · 03/05/2010, 12:16 AM

bio-spira isn't necessary just be patient. fish dont cycle food decaying organic matter does. just feed a blank tank and spare some fish and your wallet. plenty of things to buy down the road

johnmaloney · 03/05/2010, 12:17 AM

how old is the tank? well anyway, nitrifying bacteria develop quick anyway, just getting an idea where you are at

daniel89 · 03/05/2010, 12:17 AM

how much would you say to feed a blank tank

and should i feed the display or the sump?

daniel89 · 03/05/2010, 12:20 AM

Id say about 2 weeks old live rock has been in there for almost a week

Octoshark · 03/05/2010, 12:24 AM

You want to achieve an ammonia spike of about 1-2ppm for a good cycle.

PRDubois · 03/05/2010, 04:23 AM

NEVER use live fish to cycle.
put 2 raw shrimp in a nylon and put in the water. Shrimp will decay quickly and cause you a amonia spike. Reason for nylon is so you can remove the shrimp a few days after you get the spike.

bertoni · 03/05/2010, 02:52 PM

If the water has had zero ammonia for a week or so, I'd say that adding a couple of small clownfish is fine. If you want to be sure, you could add a bit of fish food and see what happens to the ammonia, but a 125 g system is pretty large. I personally would avoid forcing an ammonia spike, or adding a dead shrimp.

wooden_reefer · 03/05/2010, 05:31 PM

I always cycle a medium intended for a tank, freshwater is the same.

Ammonia is less toxic is lower ph, but still toxic.

My discuses are never exposed to ammonia.

BiochemRobyn · 03/05/2010, 05:40 PM

Normally I'd say wait to cycle too, but that's a pretty big tank and I don't think that you'd ever get a big enough ammonia spike in there to be fatal to a few small fish.

However- watch out because once you put one thing in, it's going to be torture to wait for more... MAKE SURE to monitor your tank daily for the anticipated spike after you put them in!

wooden_reefer · 03/05/2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRDubois

NEVER use live fish to cycle.
put 2 raw shrimp in a nylon and put in the water. Shrimp will decay quickly and cause you a amonia spike. Reason for nylon is so you can remove the shrimp a few days after you get the spike.

Whole shrimp don't decay quickly.

If it does, you will not be seeing it. There will be nothing to remove.

If you add a lot of shrimp, some will decay and you can remove the rest, messy.

Better is to use a designed amount and emusify it and don't think of taking it out again.

daniel89 · 03/05/2010, 09:21 PM

i have a slight amonia spike atm (0.1ppm?) its like barely registering from what i can tell cause its enbetween colors and the same for nitrite (0.15ppm?) there almost 0 but they are barely reading just enough to change the color of the liquid just a bit. So im guessing my live rock is cycling the tank Oo

So with that said I'm gonna skip the shrimp idea. And Yes i was also told from a really good friend that i could do a few small clowns in a 125g cause they are so small that i would have to feed them so much to make them fat to register any ammonia.

daniel89 · 03/06/2010, 10:00 PM

i tossed in one shrimp for it to sit a few days cause im going on vacation for the weekend so why not do it. Ill probably remove the shrimp around wednesday.

daniel89 · 03/06/2010, 11:41 PM

ammonia is at .25 and apparently still climbing and i know the shrimp hasnt made an effect so im gonna watch it closely

blennydude · 03/07/2010, 12:12 AM

You have patience that is a good thing. It looks like your tank is cycling at the moment. You might want to think about pulling out a lot of that dead rock and replacing it with live, for that is a lot to start a tank. Coraline looks nice but actually degrades the rock by encasing the nooks n crannies where the micro organisms live. Dead rock or base rock is primary used as the first layer of rock that will be mostly covered in sand anyways. The liverock you have will spread some bacterial organisms to it, but it will never house the bacteria that true live rock from the ocean has on it. For nice liverock took years and years to achieve these organisms. You will most likely have more problems down the road than if you would have started w/ 30% dead rock and 70% live. I read a great article on this not long ago, if I can find it I will post it. That's just my 2 cents of advice.

daniel89 · 03/07/2010, 01:33 AM

well to be honest as time progresses i plan on adding more live rock few pounds here few pounds there. Just didnt want to spend almost 600-700$ on live rock.

Firedog1962 · 03/07/2010, 12:11 PM

I chopped up clam pieces and that worked great

daniel89 · 03/09/2010, 08:46 PM

i seen some really cool white worm today on my live rock it sorta looked like a roleypoley

Tonynlo · 03/09/2010, 08:53 PM

I wouldn't put more than 2 clowns in your tank.

spsfragger · 03/09/2010, 08:58 PM

just wait for it to finish cycling before you add any fish

hartnell · 03/09/2010, 09:07 PM

patience is the key

Chiefsurfer · 03/10/2010, 10:04 AM

Sounds like your doing stuff right, so no criticism here. When you do add fish, i doubt you would be able to keep more than 2 clowns in that tank. They get very territorial, and likely 4 will not coexist. 2 is usually the max until you get to 6foot+ tanks.

daniel89 · 03/10/2010, 10:33 AM

I'm gonna make a stock list and do a little more research and post it and see what yall say.

troyman · 03/10/2010, 09:48 PM

by adding the live rock in stages every time you do once it starts dying off and it will because once the rock hits the air and during process of shipping unles your getting it from a local tank you are gonna go through a cycle again untill that tank can build up a bacteria load to accomadte the rock you added i think its best to do it all at once get it over with its ok to add a couple pounds to a established tank but definatly wouldnt add large amounts at once

DaveAngie79 · 03/10/2010, 10:05 PM

dont rush in this hobby is a game of time, just sit back and watch nature do its thing and soon you will find your self wanting to watch the tank more than the tv

03/04/2010, 11:47 PM	#1
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	very stupid noob question So a friend of mine told me that i could add some fish and use BIO-SPIRA to cycle the tank just like a fresh water tank. Im a little curious about this. As i want my tank to be a reef tank later on. About quarter of my live rock (30lbs) has coraline algea on it the other (100lbs of dead rock) is no where near even showing some growth on it. So if i bought this cycling agent and bought 4 clown fish to go in my 125g tank would it work? and i tested my water a day ago and there is no ammonia nitrite or nitrate suprizingly :s __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/05/2010, 12:17 AM	#4
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	how much would you say to feed a blank tank and should i feed the display or the sump? __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/05/2010, 12:20 AM	#5
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	Id say about 2 weeks old live rock has been in there for almost a week __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/05/2010, 12:24 AM	#6
Octoshark Marine Biology Student Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,366	You want to achieve an ammonia spike of about 1-2ppm for a good cycle. __________________ "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal."

03/05/2010, 04:23 AM	#7
PRDubois Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chester, VA Posts: 3,626	NEVER use live fish to cycle. put 2 raw shrimp in a nylon and put in the water. Shrimp will decay quickly and cause you a amonia spike. Reason for nylon is so you can remove the shrimp a few days after you get the spike. __________________ http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2534403 Current Tank Info: 225 gal Reef, 60 gal reef & 40b frag tank

03/05/2010, 12:16 AM	#2
johnmaloney Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 349	bio-spira isn't necessary just be patient. fish dont cycle food decaying organic matter does. just feed a blank tank and spare some fish and your wallet. plenty of things to buy down the road

03/05/2010, 02:52 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	If the water has had zero ammonia for a week or so, I'd say that adding a couple of small clownfish is fine. If you want to be sure, you could add a bit of fish food and see what happens to the ammonia, but a 125 g system is pretty large. I personally would avoid forcing an ammonia spike, or adding a dead shrimp. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

03/05/2010, 05:31 PM	#9
wooden_reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,670	I always cycle a medium intended for a tank, freshwater is the same. Ammonia is less toxic is lower ph, but still toxic. My discuses are never exposed to ammonia.

03/05/2010, 05:40 PM	#10
BiochemRobyn Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ (formerly Chicago and Minneapolis) Posts: 80	Normally I'd say wait to cycle too, but that's a pretty big tank and I don't think that you'd ever get a big enough ammonia spike in there to be fatal to a few small fish. However- watch out because once you put one thing in, it's going to be torture to wait for more... MAKE SURE to monitor your tank daily for the anticipated spike after you put them in!

03/05/2010, 09:21 PM	#12
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	i have a slight amonia spike atm (0.1ppm?) its like barely registering from what i can tell cause its enbetween colors and the same for nitrite (0.15ppm?) there almost 0 but they are barely reading just enough to change the color of the liquid just a bit. So im guessing my live rock is cycling the tank Oo So with that said I'm gonna skip the shrimp idea. And Yes i was also told from a really good friend that i could do a few small clowns in a 125g cause they are so small that i would have to feed them so much to make them fat to register any ammonia. __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics Last edited by daniel89; 03/05/2010 at 09:32 PM.

03/06/2010, 10:00 PM	#13
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	i tossed in one shrimp for it to sit a few days cause im going on vacation for the weekend so why not do it. Ill probably remove the shrimp around wednesday. __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/06/2010, 11:41 PM	#14
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	ammonia is at .25 and apparently still climbing and i know the shrimp hasnt made an effect so im gonna watch it closely __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/07/2010, 12:12 AM	#15
blennydude Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Northern, MI Posts: 111	You have patience that is a good thing. It looks like your tank is cycling at the moment. You might want to think about pulling out a lot of that dead rock and replacing it with live, for that is a lot to start a tank. Coraline looks nice but actually degrades the rock by encasing the nooks n crannies where the micro organisms live. Dead rock or base rock is primary used as the first layer of rock that will be mostly covered in sand anyways. The liverock you have will spread some bacterial organisms to it, but it will never house the bacteria that true live rock from the ocean has on it. For nice liverock took years and years to achieve these organisms. You will most likely have more problems down the road than if you would have started w/ 30% dead rock and 70% live. I read a great article on this not long ago, if I can find it I will post it. That's just my 2 cents of advice.

03/07/2010, 01:33 AM	#16
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	well to be honest as time progresses i plan on adding more live rock few pounds here few pounds there. Just didnt want to spend almost 600-700$ on live rock. __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/07/2010, 12:11 PM	#17
Firedog1962 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Honeoye NY Posts: 148	I chopped up clam pieces and that worked great

03/09/2010, 08:46 PM	#18
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	i seen some really cool white worm today on my live rock it sorta looked like a roleypoley __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/09/2010, 08:53 PM	#19
Tonynlo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Spencerport, NY Posts: 535	I wouldn't put more than 2 clowns in your tank.

03/09/2010, 08:58 PM	#20
spsfragger Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Miami Posts: 32	just wait for it to finish cycling before you add any fish

03/09/2010, 09:07 PM	#21
hartnell Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: arkdale, WI Posts: 58	patience is the key

03/10/2010, 10:04 AM	#22
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	Sounds like your doing stuff right, so no criticism here. When you do add fish, i doubt you would be able to keep more than 2 clowns in that tank. They get very territorial, and likely 4 will not coexist. 2 is usually the max until you get to 6foot+ tanks. __________________ Chief Current Tank: 20 Gallon tall, 4-bulb t5 HO, Eshopps psk75H, ac-70 fuge. So far, green clown goby, striped goby, more gorillas than I wish I had, 5 SPS frags, 3 LPS Frags, 1 Softee, Turkey Wing Clam. Plan for the future: 120 gallon 4ft glass tank. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon tall Reef Tank

03/10/2010, 10:33 AM	#23
daniel89 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Ashley, South Carolina Posts: 145	I'm gonna make a stock list and do a little more research and post it and see what yall say. __________________ To have the power to hold and maintain a entire eco system and life itself and have it in your grasp is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted, so don't screw it up cause then you will be compared to god and you don't want that. Current Tank Info: 125g Reef, 50g sump, vertex in180, 3 KORALIA 3's, mag 12 return, marineland 72" pro light fixture 3-150w MH 8 t5ho actinics

03/10/2010, 09:48 PM	#24
troyman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: troy ny Posts: 1,025	by adding the live rock in stages every time you do once it starts dying off and it will because once the rock hits the air and during process of shipping unles your getting it from a local tank you are gonna go through a cycle again untill that tank can build up a bacteria load to accomadte the rock you added i think its best to do it all at once get it over with its ok to add a couple pounds to a established tank but definatly wouldnt add large amounts at once

03/10/2010, 10:05 PM	#25
DaveAngie79 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Greenwood, IN Posts: 662	dont rush in this hobby is a game of time, just sit back and watch nature do its thing and soon you will find your self wanting to watch the tank more than the tv