Friend needs help with tank ,ready to throw in the towel!

[kingfisher62]

I have a friend who after years of listening to me talk about my tank , fish, corals and all the critters I would find on the LR , he bought a used 72g bowfront complete LR ,Fish and a few corals.

About 8 months ago I helped him move it and have kind of mentored him in this reef hobby via conversations . The tank had extremely high nitrates from the very beginning. I mean off the charts. I told him to get rid of the "Nitrate factory ,cannister filter" he had and to get an "aquaclear 110" which he did . I also told him the crushed coral substrate he, had could be part of the nitrate issue . So a month later when he decided to move the tank into another room he switched the Crushed coral to a quality marine sand .
A few weeks his nitrates were much more in line 10ppm or below. so he upgraded the light to 216W of T5's
The tank did good for another month . Then all of the sudden he started to get this brownish dust like algae settling on every thing in the tank a few hours after lights on. I thought it was most likely a cyano or diatom
bloom/ cycle and said it would probably subside on its own.
Told him to cut back on feeding, shorten photo period and to increase water changes with RO/DI.
It has been more than 2 months and it is getting worse.

Last week I took a cruise to his house to take a a day trip to a new reef place we heard about.
I saw The tank for the second time since we set it up.The lights just went on the LR had some minor algae but nothing crazy fish and inverts looked well . the few Corals he had were not to hot!

We took the cruise had lunch I picked up a couple of corals we went back to his house 4 hours later.
I could not beleive the state of the tank. Every thing was covered with a brown dust and the tank had become totally cloudy with a greenish brown hue. I Never saw anything like it.

Here are some of my observations. He had Only two powerhead probably MJ 400's. and the AC-110. He put a sprinkle of food it It basically sank to the bottom with out being blown around at all. Temp at 82 degrees.
Could the lack of circulation and high heat be causing this prob?
I suggested a couple of Hydor Koralia 3's and to lower the heat.


This guy is ready to throw in the towel and get rid of the tank.
He might be willing to buy one hydor for now but if that does not help he is done with reefing.

Any suggestions??????

[AndyH5512]

He definitely needs more water flow. A better biological filter (sump and/or fuge) couldnt hurt, either. The temp isnt that bad as long as its constant, but 78-80 would be much better if he could keep it there.

Does he have a skimmer?

[Scungili]

Oh man, circulation is a HUGH part! I'm a believer in turnover and changing out filter socks everyday. Get out the crap nobody is going to eat, except for Bacterial blooms.


Secondly, besides probably poor aeration and filtration, how is the Ph? My guess not too stable.

THirdly, High heat? If your keeping sps that tank should get no hotter than 80f. If so, then clip a fan to it if it's open top, or ventilate the hood better. Also, circulation will help keep it cooler.

Sounds like there are other issues there if these basics are not covered.

[kingfisher62]

He does have a Prizm protein skimmer , The deluxe one (if there is such a thing). I do not thing he wants to invest anymore money ,maybe the mentioned powerhead.
He did mention that is pH is always stable 8.2-8.3.
No SPS's Just a few softies!
I think he just has to lower the heater, I told him 78 degress.
I agree , the more circulation the better!
He has a very low bioload for that size tank. A yellow watchman , dottyback , line and a damsel all of which are on the small size!

[Scungili]

Bioload may be low in terms of fish, but what about feeding, is he feeding too much and most is getting wasted. Also, how old are the rocks? The list goes on and on until you get honest and re-evaluate the dedication of the owner. It's not impossible to keep a tank healthy, but it takes a bit of work, especially in the beginning.

Personally, I would change out some of the rock with dead dry rock about 30-40% since he has a low bioload. You said he changed out the sand so we are assuming that is fine. Up the flow, get rid of the bio-balls if they are old and change out the filter media in the canister for the meantime until he can get a set-up with filter socks. I would look into a protein skimmer but that is wayyy down the line if he is reluctant to spend money. Water changes are a must at 10-20% every 3-7 days. make sure make-up water has been properly prepared the day before and circulating.

[Scungili]

the canister could very well be the major cause of it. Have you opened it to see how funktified it is?

[shrimphead]

what are the lights, were they cheap? what spectrum are they?

[MatthewLaw]

i would say to get a protein skimmer and an algae blenny. that thing may eat all the algae and hopefully whatever else is growing in the tank.

are his lights (as in the bulbs) old by any chance?

[kingfisher62]

As mentioned before ,The cannister was the first thing to go! I truely believe he has cut the feeding way back since the problem has occured. He is dedicated to correcting the issues but is tired of spending money on fixes that are not working.

What would cause the the yellow green cloudy water in a few hours?

[tibob32]

any water changes? or nutrient export of any kind (other than the cheap skimmer)

[kingfisher62]

The lights were brand new. It is really not the type of algae a blennie would take care of . The stuff just blows off the rock with a turkey baster.

[kingfisher62]

Yes, on the water changes, mostly weekly ,but I bet you he might of skipped a week here or there.

[otrlynn]

Is he using RODI for water changes? If not, that could be a big part of the problem. If the algae just "blows off the rocks with a turkey baster", he should be changing the water a couple of times a week. When he siphons off the water, he should hold the turkey baster in one hand and the siphon hose in the other and siphon as much of the algae out of the tank as he can. Obviously a lot of uneaten food and fish poop is just settling on the rocks with the poor flow that he has. This hobby can be frustrating!

[greech]

Flow, increase the flow and I am willing to bet things will get better. I am basing this solely on my own experience. I have a sumpless/skimmerless 40 breeder with two K2's and a AC HOB filter running filter floss (changed out (not rinsed) every week) and Chemipure Elite. Until recently I had about 40 lbs of rock in my tank and I would get a constant dusting of diatoms (probably what your friend is seeing) almost every day. Tank would be clear every morning but by the time I came home it would be covered.

I had to build a new stand and when I moved the tank I removed about 20 lbs of rock and by doing so created a much better flow pattern in my tank and the diatoms never showed up again. My scape went from somewhat of a wall to a scape with 2 islands with small base pieces keeping the larger rocks off the sand bed. I only have 2 fish so I didn't need as much rock anyway. I still feel like I need more flow so I am upgrading to the new Evo 1050s as soon as I can.

I'm sure running a skimmer would help tremendously too but if he is looking to keep his current set up then I would start with improving flow. Also if he is running the AQ HOB with the stock media you might tell him to ditch the sponge and ceramic rocks and put something in there that can be changed out regularly with new media such as filter floss often and cost effectively. I get my floss from WM in the fabric section and its $4.00 for a huge bag. It's just polyfil that you use to make pillows and it is the same thing as the $8.00 small bag at a LFS. HTH

[bayreefer415]

+1 on the quality of water it sounds like your not teaching him on some very key departments of reef keeping he cant do water changes from his sink and a aquaclear110 on that tank isnt gonna do anything on a 72g reef but he could run some gfo and carbon from there, he definitely needs a skimmer being that he is a noobie we all know noobies are fish lovers and become coral lovers later lol.2 MJ 400s really???? I have those in my 20g sump and he is running them on a 72g bowfront that is a big contribution to his problem.

[bayreefer415]

By the way are you sure this isnt a forum about yourself and not your "buddy" if you were suppose to be his mentor/teacher then you should know that 2 mj400s werent gonna get the job done for this tank and suggesting a aquaclear 110 wasnt the best advice either, you should also know what causes the different types of algaes.....JMO

[cubsFAN]

All the people i've "mentored" were told to go to reef central. One of your buddies problems sounds like he wants you to do the work for him. maybe he does not have the net, but he really should be finding the answers on his own. It sounds like you have given sound advice already. Increase the flow significantly and add a couple reactors with carbon and phosban. ditch the little hob aquaclear because i doubt he's changing the cartriges. clean the skimmer so it is in working order or ditch it. if it's not doing its job it is useless. start siphoning diatoms. i also think that some rock may need to come out to improve flow, but its hard sayin not knowin what the structure is like. maybe he should spend money on you to take care of his tank for him. I think flow is the main issue. throw a couple of the kevo1050's in there. it may solve the problem completely. pics might help.

[kingfisher62]

No, it is not me! LOL.

otrlynn, yes on the ro/di and I told him to siphon the crap off the siphoning the crap off the rock.

bayreefer415, personally I think the aquaclear 110 is a great filter.
The only reason I mentioned a AC 110 is so he would have some sort of mechanical filtration and options for chemical filtration other than a canister which was more than likely the main contributors of the trates. I only say the tank during the initial setup. Saw it 8 months later and thats when I saw the circulation was crap. Who said he was doing water changes from the sink? He's using RO/di, as I mentioned before.Yes he is using carbon in the 110, and recently got some chemipure.

Greech, Your situation sounds similar to his,And I have been trying to get him to invest on the hydor 3's. I like the idea of the WM floss, good money saver, but I like the concept of just rinsing the sponge with the watercange water so there is still a good amount of beneficial bacteria.

[kingfisher62]

cubsFAN, Oh yeah , he is around here! I tell everyone about this place. He has posted questions and used others advice but he does not post nearly as much as I tell him to do. I am not familiar with kevo1050's.

[kingfisher62]

Jus googled kevo1050's , no info , are they powerheads?

[nikon187]

he meant evo 1050s ( the new koralia)

[kingfisher62]

Are those the new design that uses like half the electricity for the same amount of GPH?
we were talking about those.

[steelhead77]

This may sound harsh but, if he's not willing to spend a few bucks to get some decent flow and a few bucks more to get a decent skimmer, maybe he should find another hobby. Reefkeeping is not cheap. Nor easy. That being said, most stuff can be bought for pennies on the dollars used. A good skimmer can be had for under $75.00. A couple Koralias for under $50.00. Once a tank is stable it's still a lot of work to keep it up. He needs to bite the bullet and pony up a few bucks and some more dedication to get his tank in shape or sell it and recoupe what he can.

[kingfisher62]

I hear ya stealhead, I think he is just getting frustrated cause he had so much trouble lately and never any time of quality reefing.
Hey I have been running skimmerless for years . He definitely has to bite the bullet and get some sort circulation in that tank. A good skimmer would help , never heard anything good about those prisms.

[steelhead77]

I agree about the Prizms. A good used AquaC Remora Pro can be had for ~$75.00. Shoot, I'll bet there's probably a half dozen of them on the the RC classifieds right now for that price or less. Skimmerless can work, but a good skimmer makes life a whole lot easier, especially for a newbie.