Clownfish Dead!?

MarcCheech · 03/18/2010, 07:51 PM

Hi All. This is my first post but I have been on this site at least twice a day for the past 2 months gathering information. I was wondering if you can help me. After my tank cycled, I added the "nano package" CUC from my LFS. I let them do their job for 2 weeks and then added a cleaner shrimp and a peppermint shrimp. 2 weeks after that I added my first fish, a clown fish. The clown was great from the moment I got it. Always seemed happy and eating. However, today I came home from work and found it dead at the bottom of the tank with 4 hermit crabs eating it. This was absolutely horrifying! I thought everything was going so well. Now I'm a newbie so I really dont know but if something was wrong with my water wouldnt my shrimp be the first to tell me? The last time I tested was Tuesday and everything seemed fine. All was 0 and pH was 7.9 (i know a little low). I tested again after I took the clown out tonight and everything is still 0 and pH is 8.1. Any insight on what may have happened? I fed the fish every other day with a tiny corner of a cube of frozen brine shrimp. Maybe I wasnt feeding it enough?? Could something in my tank have killed it somehow? Please help! Thanks a lot.

cmac23 · 03/18/2010, 07:57 PM

the only thing i can think of is that your tank wasnt fully cycled and maybe you thought it was. how long from start of tank till you put in your clown fish? there is a possiblity it was just bad luck with picking the fish, or maybe it was stressed. the stuff in your tank would not have attacked it.

MarcCheech · 03/18/2010, 08:05 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, cmac23! I'm as positive as a newbie can be that my tank was fully cycled. It took 1 month for everything to go down to 0 and then I added my CUC. I didnt add the Clown until 1 month after that. So my tank was up and running for 2 months before I added the clown. Also, do you think my shrimp would of died as well if that was the case? Do you think I was feeding enough? Im afraid to buy another one!!! I thought things were going so well. I remember yesterday I was thinking "hey, I think im getting the hang of this".

cmac23 · 03/18/2010, 08:15 PM

i wish i could give you more answers, but i have only been in the hobby for 3 years. stay positive and dont give up. the clown fish are hardy, but i believe the shrimp is more hardy than the clownfish. hang in there with the hobby, and good luck the rest of the way. hopefully people with more knowledge than myself will help you out on here

mike_cmu04 · 03/18/2010, 08:56 PM

sometimes things die for no good reason dont give up

Matt K · 03/18/2010, 09:15 PM

The clown dying is a problem that all will go through at one point. I've been in this for over 30 years. Sometimes something will die for no reason. Was it a tank raised fish or wild caught? Shrimp are hardy. Before I add a shrimp to one of my show tanks, I'll put them in fresh water for 15 min. just to make sure they are not bringing in a parasite. If you add another clown and it dies, something is wrong. You are SURE that the tank has cycled! You tested the water after the fish was removed, and it tested fine. Try again, wild caught fish are sometimes just waiting for problems, some fish are caught with cyanide, or bleach sprayed on the surface of the water. The Phillipines are good for this. The chemical falls through the water, stunning everything on the way down. They pick up the fish, flush clean water through them, and they live for about 4 to 6 weeks, eating good, but then they die. They say that this doesn't happen any more. BULL, I've seen it first hand. Good luck

MarcCheech · 03/19/2010, 06:58 AM

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your insight. I'll keep plugging away. Just need some time to recover.

Flying_Hellfish · 03/19/2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcCheech

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your insight. I'll keep plugging away. Just need some time to recover.

Fish dying sucks, getting attached quickly seems to be the norm in this hobby. If you want to make double sure that your readings are right then most LFS will test your water for you too. Talk to them to confirm all is well.

patsfan1130 · 03/19/2010, 08:46 AM

Just curious..what is the sg and temp? Is it possible you lost power? you don't state how big the tank is. With smaller tanks a power outage can do a number on the inhabitants.

IslandCrow · 03/19/2010, 08:50 AM

Assuming your tests were accurate, it sounds like your tank was definitely cycled. Probably the most common causes aside from ammonia poisoning in an uncycled tank would be disease/parasites or malnutrition. Malnutrition takes awhile, so unless the clownfish looked emaciated before you bought him, that probably isn't it. Disease and parasites are often recognizable by spots, discoloration or deformities on the fish. Of course, some of these will affect non-visable areas like the gills. If you didn't notice any of these things, I'd probably give it another shot. If you did, you may have parasites still in the tank, so you may have to leave the tank fishless for a certain period depending on the type of parasite (usually 6-8 weeks). If your really want to be safe, I think it's actually best not to add any new fish for a couple months after an unexplained death. This is also yet another reason to always have a quarantine period for new additions, so that you don't risk infecting your main tank, even if it doesn't have any other inhabitants.

MarcCheech · 03/19/2010, 09:28 AM

Thanks for the advice, FH. I'll have my lfs test my water tomorrow morning.

patsfan- my sg is 1.024 and temp varies from 77 to 79...I have a 50w Stealth heater. Im really not happy with the 2 degree fluctuation from my heater but I'm not sure what to do about that. Hopefully that didnt kill my poor clown. I am positive that my power did not go out recently. (didnt have to reset clocks) My tank is a 12g Nano Cube DX. I will be sure to post all of this info initially in my future posts.

Island- Thanks for the insight. I havent noticed anything strange with the fish before it died. I stare at my tank on average 1 hr a day. I think I would have definitely noticed something wrong. I have decided to wait a week before adding another clown. I will do 2 15% water changed in the meantime. I will look into setting up a QT..however, money and space are definitely factors.

Namnuta · 03/19/2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandCrow

Assuming your tests were accurate, it sounds like your tank was definitely cycled. Probably the most common causes aside from ammonia poisoning in an uncycled tank would be disease/parasites or malnutrition. Malnutrition takes awhile, so unless the clownfish looked emaciated before you bought him, that probably isn't it. Disease and parasites are often recognizable by spots, discoloration or deformities on the fish. Of course, some of these will affect non-visable areas like the gills. If you didn't notice any of these things, I'd probably give it another shot. If you did, you may have parasites still in the tank, so you may have to leave the tank fishless for a certain period depending on the type of parasite (usually 6-8 weeks). If your really want to be safe, I think it's actually best not to add any new fish for a couple months after an unexplained death. This is also yet another reason to always have a quarantine period for new additions, so that you don't risk infecting your main tank, even if it doesn't have any other inhabitants.

This is what i did after i had some unexplained deaths. I left my tank for 3 months with only my corals and CUC. I havent had a unexplained death since.

lordofthereef · 03/19/2010, 10:12 AM

I largely agree with what has been said, but there is always a reason for death. Perhaps we never quite find out the reason every time, but nothing dies for no reason at all...

IslandCrow · 03/19/2010, 11:58 AM

Absolutely true, lordofthereef. For the OP, I wouldn't worry in the least about a 2 degree temperature variation. If you talk to Green Bean, he'll tell you it can actually be a good thing in that not only is it perfectly normal in the wild, but it can help acclimate the fish to temperature variations so it's more likely to survive if you ever have equipment failure and your tank temperature gets to one of the extremes.

As for a quarantine tank, it doesn't have to be anything extravagant. I got a 10 gallon tank from Walmart and put an Aquaclear filter on it, along with a small heater, powerhead and a few large PVC pieces for hiding places for the fish.

Vin7250 · 03/19/2010, 02:35 PM

12 gallon nanos (well nanos in general) are hard to keep they really are

BradMugs · 03/19/2010, 02:47 PM

Sorry about your loss, it's hard, it's always hard. But 12 gal nano - for a beginner? What kind of water do you use? Any chance you could have transfered anything from your hands into the tank (soap, lotion, etc)? Lost a 55 gal fish only tank over a weekend once - the only thing we could think of was we had done some major house cleaning and it's possible some cleaner may have some how gotten into the tank - went from very healthy looking on Friday to dead on Monday..

IMHO a 12 nano is extreemly difficult to maintain the slightest bit of bad stuff can really have a bad affect on the tank where it may not even be noticed in something much larger.

costellow · 03/19/2010, 05:04 PM

Don't get down. I started this hobby a year ago with a 15G. I've lost 2 sand sifting gobies due to malnutrition I think because they were getting skinny and then died. I've learned that in this hobby you can't get too attached to anything. It's got it's ups and downs. Chin up

betoballer1 · 03/19/2010, 05:12 PM

dont give up, maybe it was just a bad batch of clownfish.. try again with an adult sized one.. u should be fine

IslandCrow · 03/21/2010, 08:04 PM

Yeah, sand sifting anything is usually a bad idea in a nano. It's very unlikely they'll get all the nutrition they need.

MarcCheech · 03/22/2010, 07:46 AM

Thank you all for your replies. I am using ro/di water from my lfs. I did a 20% water change since my clown died. Everything looks ok now. I woke up this morning with a little scare though. I thought my cleaner shrimp was dead but turns out it just molted. I flushed the dead skin and headed off to work. Im going to wait at least 2 or 3 weeks before I get another fish or any other livestock for that matter.

03/18/2010, 07:51 PM	#1
MarcCheech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Rutherford, NJ Posts: 5	Clownfish Dead!? Hi All. This is my first post but I have been on this site at least twice a day for the past 2 months gathering information. I was wondering if you can help me. After my tank cycled, I added the "nano package" CUC from my LFS. I let them do their job for 2 weeks and then added a cleaner shrimp and a peppermint shrimp. 2 weeks after that I added my first fish, a clown fish. The clown was great from the moment I got it. Always seemed happy and eating. However, today I came home from work and found it dead at the bottom of the tank with 4 hermit crabs eating it. This was absolutely horrifying! I thought everything was going so well. Now I'm a newbie so I really dont know but if something was wrong with my water wouldnt my shrimp be the first to tell me? The last time I tested was Tuesday and everything seemed fine. All was 0 and pH was 7.9 (i know a little low). I tested again after I took the clown out tonight and everything is still 0 and pH is 8.1. Any insight on what may have happened? I fed the fish every other day with a tiny corner of a cube of frozen brine shrimp. Maybe I wasnt feeding it enough?? Could something in my tank have killed it somehow? Please help! Thanks a lot. Last edited by MarcCheech; 03/18/2010 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Add

03/18/2010, 07:57 PM	#2
cmac23 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 425	the only thing i can think of is that your tank wasnt fully cycled and maybe you thought it was. how long from start of tank till you put in your clown fish? there is a possiblity it was just bad luck with picking the fish, or maybe it was stressed. the stuff in your tank would not have attacked it. __________________ “Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant?? I'm halfway through my fish burger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner.” “Even a fish could stay out of trouble if it would just learn to keep its mouth shut.” Current Tank Info: 29g biocube hqi

03/18/2010, 08:15 PM	#4
cmac23 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 425	i wish i could give you more answers, but i have only been in the hobby for 3 years. stay positive and dont give up. the clown fish are hardy, but i believe the shrimp is more hardy than the clownfish. hang in there with the hobby, and good luck the rest of the way. hopefully people with more knowledge than myself will help you out on here __________________ “Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant?? I'm halfway through my fish burger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner.” “Even a fish could stay out of trouble if it would just learn to keep its mouth shut.” Current Tank Info: 29g biocube hqi

03/19/2010, 08:46 AM	#9
patsfan1130 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Woburn, Ma Posts: 2,010	Just curious..what is the sg and temp? Is it possible you lost power? you don't state how big the tank is. With smaller tanks a power outage can do a number on the inhabitants. __________________ My cat's breath smells like cat food Member of the Boston Reefers Society Current Tank Info: 75g lps, 90g sps, 120g mixed, 180 nem tank, 300g reef, 600g up & coming reef

03/19/2010, 08:50 AM	#10
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Assuming your tests were accurate, it sounds like your tank was definitely cycled. Probably the most common causes aside from ammonia poisoning in an uncycled tank would be disease/parasites or malnutrition. Malnutrition takes awhile, so unless the clownfish looked emaciated before you bought him, that probably isn't it. Disease and parasites are often recognizable by spots, discoloration or deformities on the fish. Of course, some of these will affect non-visable areas like the gills. If you didn't notice any of these things, I'd probably give it another shot. If you did, you may have parasites still in the tank, so you may have to leave the tank fishless for a certain period depending on the type of parasite (usually 6-8 weeks). If your really want to be safe, I think it's actually best not to add any new fish for a couple months after an unexplained death. This is also yet another reason to always have a quarantine period for new additions, so that you don't risk infecting your main tank, even if it doesn't have any other inhabitants. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

03/18/2010, 08:05 PM	#3
MarcCheech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Rutherford, NJ Posts: 5	Thanks for the quick reply, cmac23! I'm as positive as a newbie can be that my tank was fully cycled. It took 1 month for everything to go down to 0 and then I added my CUC. I didnt add the Clown until 1 month after that. So my tank was up and running for 2 months before I added the clown. Also, do you think my shrimp would of died as well if that was the case? Do you think I was feeding enough? Im afraid to buy another one!!! I thought things were going so well. I remember yesterday I was thinking "hey, I think im getting the hang of this".

03/18/2010, 08:56 PM	#5
mike_cmu04 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Shepherd, Mi Posts: 2,348	sometimes things die for no good reason dont give up

03/18/2010, 09:15 PM	#6
Matt K Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sylvania, OH U.S.A. Posts: 15	The clown dying is a problem that all will go through at one point. I've been in this for over 30 years. Sometimes something will die for no reason. Was it a tank raised fish or wild caught? Shrimp are hardy. Before I add a shrimp to one of my show tanks, I'll put them in fresh water for 15 min. just to make sure they are not bringing in a parasite. If you add another clown and it dies, something is wrong. You are SURE that the tank has cycled! You tested the water after the fish was removed, and it tested fine. Try again, wild caught fish are sometimes just waiting for problems, some fish are caught with cyanide, or bleach sprayed on the surface of the water. The Phillipines are good for this. The chemical falls through the water, stunning everything on the way down. They pick up the fish, flush clean water through them, and they live for about 4 to 6 weeks, eating good, but then they die. They say that this doesn't happen any more. BULL, I've seen it first hand. Good luck

03/19/2010, 06:58 AM	#7
MarcCheech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Rutherford, NJ Posts: 5	Thanks, guys. I appreciate your insight. I'll keep plugging away. Just need some time to recover.

03/19/2010, 09:28 AM	#11
MarcCheech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Rutherford, NJ Posts: 5	Thanks for the advice, FH. I'll have my lfs test my water tomorrow morning. patsfan- my sg is 1.024 and temp varies from 77 to 79...I have a 50w Stealth heater. Im really not happy with the 2 degree fluctuation from my heater but I'm not sure what to do about that. Hopefully that didnt kill my poor clown. I am positive that my power did not go out recently. (didnt have to reset clocks) My tank is a 12g Nano Cube DX. I will be sure to post all of this info initially in my future posts. Island- Thanks for the insight. I havent noticed anything strange with the fish before it died. I stare at my tank on average 1 hr a day. I think I would have definitely noticed something wrong. I have decided to wait a week before adding another clown. I will do 2 15% water changed in the meantime. I will look into setting up a QT..however, money and space are definitely factors.

03/19/2010, 10:12 AM	#13
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I largely agree with what has been said, but there is always a reason for death. Perhaps we never quite find out the reason every time, but nothing dies for no reason at all... __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

03/19/2010, 11:58 AM	#14
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Absolutely true, lordofthereef. For the OP, I wouldn't worry in the least about a 2 degree temperature variation. If you talk to Green Bean, he'll tell you it can actually be a good thing in that not only is it perfectly normal in the wild, but it can help acclimate the fish to temperature variations so it's more likely to survive if you ever have equipment failure and your tank temperature gets to one of the extremes. As for a quarantine tank, it doesn't have to be anything extravagant. I got a 10 gallon tank from Walmart and put an Aquaclear filter on it, along with a small heater, powerhead and a few large PVC pieces for hiding places for the fish. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

03/19/2010, 02:35 PM	#15
Vin7250 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut "The Big East" Posts: 1,144	12 gallon nanos (well nanos in general) are hard to keep they really are

03/19/2010, 02:47 PM	#16
BradMugs Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Aurora, CO, USA Posts: 440	Sorry about your loss, it's hard, it's always hard. But 12 gal nano - for a beginner? What kind of water do you use? Any chance you could have transfered anything from your hands into the tank (soap, lotion, etc)? Lost a 55 gal fish only tank over a weekend once - the only thing we could think of was we had done some major house cleaning and it's possible some cleaner may have some how gotten into the tank - went from very healthy looking on Friday to dead on Monday.. IMHO a 12 nano is extreemly difficult to maintain the slightest bit of bad stuff can really have a bad affect on the tank where it may not even be noticed in something much larger.

03/19/2010, 05:04 PM	#17
costellow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 231	Don't get down. I started this hobby a year ago with a 15G. I've lost 2 sand sifting gobies due to malnutrition I think because they were getting skinny and then died. I've learned that in this hobby you can't get too attached to anything. It's got it's ups and downs. Chin up

03/19/2010, 05:12 PM	#18
betoballer1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: miami Posts: 100	dont give up, maybe it was just a bad batch of clownfish.. try again with an adult sized one.. u should be fine

03/21/2010, 08:04 PM	#19
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Yeah, sand sifting anything is usually a bad idea in a nano. It's very unlikely they'll get all the nutrition they need. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

03/22/2010, 07:46 AM	#20
MarcCheech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Rutherford, NJ Posts: 5	Thank you all for your replies. I am using ro/di water from my lfs. I did a 20% water change since my clown died. Everything looks ok now. I woke up this morning with a little scare though. I thought my cleaner shrimp was dead but turns out it just molted. I flushed the dead skin and headed off to work. Im going to wait at least 2 or 3 weeks before I get another fish or any other livestock for that matter.