alternative for dead rock?

[izzy123]

i was wondering, is there an alternative for dead rock other than making your own with cement and sand?
i thought limestone would be a good choice, but somebody recommended against it.
if i remembered correctly, there could be contaminents like iron in the rock.
lava rock has the same problem, right?

so help me out, if there is an alternative out there, i know the answer is in this forum.

thanks for all your help

[JLAURIA751]

What you are looking for is base rock. This place has some really good base rock http://www.marcorocks.com/. If its too expensive just look for rock that is real pourous and feels light compared to the size.

[brycerb]

Live rock needs to be extremely porus. Limestone wouldn't cut it. If you are trying to save money on live rock try craigslist, it saved me a bunch. Of coarse you never know what you are going to get but you could nuke it and seed it with some pieces from you LFS.

[Octoshark]

I have heard good things about MarcoRocks.com as stated above

[jeepguy242]

bulkreefsupply.com sells dry fiji base rock really cheap

[Muddy35]

+1 on marco rocks.. Used it extensively and will never use anthing else. There is NO live rock in my tank. Started with marcos and wil finish with it going forward. Very pourous, lightweight, easy to work with, and mined from quarrys- not the ocean. Cannot speak enough about it.

[j.p. harrington]

hey muddy i also have the marco rock and plan on just using it does it become live and get coraline and all?

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by JLAURIA751

What you are looking for is base rock. This place has some really good base rock http://www.marcorocks.com/. If its too expensive just look for rock that is real pourous and feels light compared to the size.

that's all fine and dandy, but the problem is, they don't ship to europe (that's where i live) and live rock costs about 10 dollars a pound over here!!
and dead rock isn't much cheaper....... and my wife won't move to the States just because i want to start with this hobby

so, anybody have any idea on how to fix this dilemma?

thank you again

Ivan

[footballdude2k3]

Originally Posted by izzy123

that's all fine and dandy, but the problem is, they don't ship to europe (that's where i live) and live rock costs about 10 dollars a pound over here!!
and dead rock isn't much cheaper....... and my wife won't move to the States just because i want to start with this hobby

so, anybody have any idea on how to fix this dilemma?

thank you again

Ivan

get a new wife?

[Chiefsurfer]

^Not probably the best option.

Umm, There has to be a European company selling dead rock. dead rock should be dirt cheap. I'll check around a bit.

Just found "just live rock".com Although they offer free ground shipping to continental US, they do state that if you need to arrange different shipping accomidations, to just call them. It might be worth a shot to give them a call and see what you can do, or MAYBE send an e-mail since the call will cost you. You'd have to get a fair amount of rock to make up for shipping costs, vs. even a pretty hefty price locally.

Best bet, make your own rock. Have you thought about something like spray-foam sprayed onto something like acrylic rods? Then maybe holding it down with a pvc base? Just thinking aloud here. Not sure if spray foam would work too well tho, because it is closed-cell and might not provide enough surface area for bacteria.

[lordofthereef]

If it is price that it keeping you from buying the base/dead rock, your best bet is going to be making your own IMO. While various rocks may be safe in the tank you are also looking for good porosity. All rocks are not created equal. 100 pounds of one can be night and day difference from 100 pounds of another as far as porosity is concerned. If you are patient (which hopefully you are with wanting to set up a new tank!), the DIY aragocrete really isn't difficult to make. The more you make, the cheaper it gets per pound, to an extent.

[Namnuta]

Just bought 50 pounds of dry rock from Bulk reef supply and i am very very impressed. Some of the nicest rock i have ever seen. Fast shipping to.

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

If it is price that it keeping you from buying the base/dead rock, your best bet is going to be making your own IMO. While various rocks may be safe in the tank you are also looking for good porosity. All rocks are not created equal. 100 pounds of one can be night and day difference from 100 pounds of another as far as porosity is concerned. If you are patient (which hopefully you are with wanting to set up a new tank!), the DIY aragocrete really isn't difficult to make. The more you make, the cheaper it gets per pound, to an extent.

thanks you guys for coming up with these creative solutions, that's what i like about this forum. nobody judges, and erverybody really tries to help... big thumbs up

ok, so i'll try to make my own, now i just have to find out where i can get the sand you use to make this.
it's a bit hard to translate the name, for what other things is the sand used?
is it the same sand used in sandboxes?

oh by the way, getting another wife is not an option IMO ( she's sitting next to me! )

and yes, i plan to take it slow, i was planning of filling the tank with dead rock ( and water of course ) putting a few pounds of live rock in there and ride it out for about six months (that's what they recommended me)

thanks,

Ivan

[Chiefsurfer]

well if you ride it out for 6 months, you will create bacteria, and then all the bacteria will die because there's no food for it(ammonia).

It may take 6 months to stabilize the tank completely(in terms of adding VERY delicate fish), but 6 weeks and you should have plenty of bacteria to add fish. There are many methods of cycling a tank, and NONE of your rock HAS to be alive. Do some searching on here about how to cycle a tank, and it will go through the steps. Basically you want to add a source of ammonia, up to a concentration of at least 4ppm, and let the bacteria form. Once all has formed, Ammonia will have spiked, then fallen. Then Nitrite will have spiked and fallen, then you will have nitrates. To practically get rid of the nitrate, you will have to do a few large water-changes. After your nitrites are all gone, you are free to add fish. I would go slow, maybe 1-2 fish per 10-14 days.

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by Chiefsurfer

well if you ride it out for 6 months, you will create bacteria, and then all the bacteria will die because there's no food for it(ammonia).

It may take 6 months to stabilize the tank completely(in terms of adding VERY delicate fish), but 6 weeks and you should have plenty of bacteria to add fish. There are many methods of cycling a tank, and NONE of your rock HAS to be alive. Do some searching on here about how to cycle a tank, and it will go through the steps. Basically you want to add a source of ammonia, up to a concentration of at least 4ppm, and let the bacteria form. Once all has formed, Ammonia will have spiked, then fallen. Then Nitrite will have spiked and fallen, then you will have nitrates. To practically get rid of the nitrate, you will have to do a few large water-changes. After your nitrites are all gone, you are free to add fish. I would go slow, maybe 1-2 fish per 10-14 days.

okay, that's great news! i can add fish a lot faster than i anticipated

should i count the clean up crew as fish? because i wanted to add some snails and maybe a few shrimp before i added some fish.

so, how about the sand, any idea what it is used for ( besides making rocks )

thanks

[Lemeshianos]

I also live in europe and I used white portland cement, some sand and crashed coral.

Also if you live in Europe you can try www.marinelife.eu
They ship to most continental Europe, except smaller islands like Cyprus, Malta, etc

[Chiefsurfer]

best resource I could find about aragonite. It apparently is calcium carbonate precipitate. I would think that you could not use standard calcium carbonate, it would have to be precipitate.

http://www.minerals.net/mineral/carb...t/aragonit.htm

[izzy123]

Originally Posted by Lemeshianos

I also live in europe and I used white portland cement, some sand and crashed coral.

Also if you live in Europe you can try www.marinelife.eu
They ship to most continental Europe, except smaller islands like Cyprus, Malta, etc

aha! that's what i needed to know, thanks.
thanks for the link also, i visited the site, but the live rock is even more expencive than over here.

by the way, you call Cyprus a small island
maybe if you compare to the States, but i live in Belgium..... there are shopping malls in America that are bigger!

i also found something that could work.....i think, it is sand that is used to cover the bottom of birdcages it is made of crushed shell from shellfish.
i don't know if it would be a good idea to use it tho

let me hear your thoughts

[Chiefsurfer]

that is what we here call crushed coral. The crushed coral is usually not a good thing to use for SUBSTRATE(like sand at the bottom of the tank) but for an aragonite suppliment I do not know. Maybe randy can chime in here, probably the best guy to ask about this.

[izzy123]

okay, i'll ask Randy....

thanks Chiefsurfer, i really apriciate your input