Does this sound like ICH!

scottwhitson · 04/22/2010, 11:34 PM

I have never dealt with ICH before so looking for some opinions. Our Flame Angel looks good in the mornings when the lights come on (around noon) no spots or anything on it. Then by the time the lights are getting ready to shut off I can see white spots on her and our yellow tang. Does ICH tend to disappear during the night and come on stronger during the day? Any help appreciated.

vikubz · 04/23/2010, 04:26 AM

Fish tend to have a 'faded' look when they first wake up, so maybe as the day goes on and they get their brighter colors the spots become more visible. What symptoms are you seeing?

crvz · 04/23/2010, 07:51 AM

I have noticed some fading spots like you're pointing out, so that could be the problem, but are you noticing any other symptoms with the fish (diet changes, swimming changes, etc.).

Neogenocide · 04/23/2010, 08:30 AM

I had one "flame angel" that presented the same way. In the end he wasn't showing any signs of ich, although I suspect it's still what he died from. I would get it into QT and start treatment right away.

Scott

returnofsid · 04/23/2010, 10:03 AM

Ich will look like someone sprinkled salt on your fish, or that the fish was swimming into the fine sand bed, and some sand stuck...

It will come and go, but not usually from day to night. It'll typically come and go, over a period of 3-7 days.

You may also notice some "flashing," fish rubbing against rocks. Might also notice increased respiration rate, but not always.

Any chance of getting pics of it and posting them?

scottwhitson · 04/23/2010, 10:21 AM

The only symptoms are the spots. No lack of eating, no scratching, no reduced activity.

returnofsid · 04/23/2010, 10:44 AM

Are the "spots," the size of a grain of salt or fine sand? If so, it's either Ich, or fine sand...lol. I've actually had a fish that I misdiagnosed, and it WAS sand. This was a Leopard Wrasse though, that slept in the sand bed.

A lot of people see white spots, that are larger, and think it's Ich. That's why the size is important.

scottwhitson · 04/23/2010, 02:22 PM

Here are some pics I just took. I am in the process of building a fish trap to attempt to catch them if not I guess I will be tearing all the rock and coral out. Let me know if you think this is ICH.

scottwhitson · 04/23/2010, 02:23 PM

Some of it is sand blowing around in the pics but if you look at around the eye of the Flame Angel and on the Lateral Line of the Yellow Tang.

bguile · 04/23/2010, 02:29 PM

From that second shot of the Flame Angel, I'd say that's ich. I cant say I see any on the Yellow Tang, but if he's in the same tank....he's got it too.

Shane Hoffman · 04/23/2010, 02:38 PM

I also see what appears to be ich on the flame. IMO the yellow tang is experiencing the beggining stages of head and lateral line erosion HILLE. What do you feed and how often???? Usually an inadequate diet causes HILLE. My yellow tang or any healthy yellow tang will have a lateral line that is almost if not invisible when healthy.

Paul B · 04/23/2010, 02:47 PM

I do not believe those fish have ich. It's hard to tell from here but if they are not breathing faster than normal or scratching, it is not ich. When a fish has ich and you see skin paracites, the gills are loaded with them and the fish will be visably uncomfortable. Those paracites are not ich.

scottwhitson · 04/23/2010, 02:54 PM

The fish don't appear to be scratching or breathing harder than usual. I know the Yellow does have a little HLLE but it has had it for years and doesn't seem to get worse. They are fed a mix of food including Nori, pellets, and a homemade mix of seafood medley. Fed everyday.

returnofsid · 04/23/2010, 03:36 PM

I'm also not really seeing any definite signs of Ich. On the second pic of the Flame, possibly, but I can't be sure.

The Tang doesn't appear to have any Ich at all, but HLLE.

Your diet sounds good, as long as the Tang is getting more Algae than "meat" in it's diet. I'd suggest checking for any voltage leaking into your tank, as this is also thought to be a cause of HLLE.

scottwhitson · 04/23/2010, 05:22 PM

Our Sailfin tang has no signs at all of HLLE so I don't think that it is stray voltage in the tank. I really don't know what would be causing it but am more concerned about the possibility of ICH.

steelhead77 · 04/23/2010, 11:37 PM

IMO that is not ich. Ich looks like this:

As long as they are eating and swimming normal, just keep an eye on it, when you see other symptoms (lethargy, not eating etc), then begin to take corrective actions.

BTW, this tang has fully recovered and is healthy and happy more than a year after this pic was taken.

04/22/2010, 11:34 PM	#1
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Does this sound like ICH! I have never dealt with ICH before so looking for some opinions. Our Flame Angel looks good in the mornings when the lights come on (around noon) no spots or anything on it. Then by the time the lights are getting ready to shut off I can see white spots on her and our yellow tang. Does ICH tend to disappear during the night and come on stronger during the day? Any help appreciated.

04/23/2010, 07:51 AM	#3
crvz Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: houstonia Posts: 7,989	I have noticed some fading spots like you're pointing out, so that could be the problem, but are you noticing any other symptoms with the fish (diet changes, swimming changes, etc.). __________________ -Chris- You don't win friends with salad. "Look! They're trying to learn for free!" ... "Use your phony guns as clubs!" Current Tank Info: rectangluar? wet?

04/23/2010, 02:29 PM	#10
bguile Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: York PA Posts: 308	From that second shot of the Flame Angel, I'd say that's ich. I cant say I see any on the Yellow Tang, but if he's in the same tank....he's got it too. __________________ -Bguile Current Tank Info: 210G FOWLR, 40G Reef

04/23/2010, 02:38 PM	#11
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	I also see what appears to be ich on the flame. IMO the yellow tang is experiencing the beggining stages of head and lateral line erosion HILLE. What do you feed and how often???? Usually an inadequate diet causes HILLE. My yellow tang or any healthy yellow tang will have a lateral line that is almost if not invisible when healthy. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

04/23/2010, 02:47 PM	#12
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	I do not believe those fish have ich. It's hard to tell from here but if they are not breathing faster than normal or scratching, it is not ich. When a fish has ich and you see skin paracites, the gills are loaded with them and the fish will be visably uncomfortable. Those paracites are not ich. __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

04/23/2010, 04:26 AM	#2
vikubz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cedar Falls, IA Posts: 599	Fish tend to have a 'faded' look when they first wake up, so maybe as the day goes on and they get their brighter colors the spots become more visible. What symptoms are you seeing?

04/23/2010, 08:30 AM	#4
Neogenocide Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 851	I had one "flame angel" that presented the same way. In the end he wasn't showing any signs of ich, although I suspect it's still what he died from. I would get it into QT and start treatment right away. Scott

04/23/2010, 10:03 AM	#5
returnofsid Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,852	Ich will look like someone sprinkled salt on your fish, or that the fish was swimming into the fine sand bed, and some sand stuck... It will come and go, but not usually from day to night. It'll typically come and go, over a period of 3-7 days. You may also notice some "flashing," fish rubbing against rocks. Might also notice increased respiration rate, but not always. Any chance of getting pics of it and posting them?

04/23/2010, 10:21 AM	#6
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	The only symptoms are the spots. No lack of eating, no scratching, no reduced activity.

04/23/2010, 10:44 AM	#7
returnofsid Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,852	Are the "spots," the size of a grain of salt or fine sand? If so, it's either Ich, or fine sand...lol. I've actually had a fish that I misdiagnosed, and it WAS sand. This was a Leopard Wrasse though, that slept in the sand bed. A lot of people see white spots, that are larger, and think it's Ich. That's why the size is important.

04/23/2010, 02:22 PM	#8
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Here are some pics I just took. I am in the process of building a fish trap to attempt to catch them if not I guess I will be tearing all the rock and coral out. Let me know if you think this is ICH.

04/23/2010, 02:23 PM	#9
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Some of it is sand blowing around in the pics but if you look at around the eye of the Flame Angel and on the Lateral Line of the Yellow Tang.

04/23/2010, 02:54 PM	#13
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	The fish don't appear to be scratching or breathing harder than usual. I know the Yellow does have a little HLLE but it has had it for years and doesn't seem to get worse. They are fed a mix of food including Nori, pellets, and a homemade mix of seafood medley. Fed everyday.

04/23/2010, 03:36 PM	#14
returnofsid Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,852	I'm also not really seeing any definite signs of Ich. On the second pic of the Flame, possibly, but I can't be sure. The Tang doesn't appear to have any Ich at all, but HLLE. Your diet sounds good, as long as the Tang is getting more Algae than "meat" in it's diet. I'd suggest checking for any voltage leaking into your tank, as this is also thought to be a cause of HLLE.

04/23/2010, 05:22 PM	#15
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Our Sailfin tang has no signs at all of HLLE so I don't think that it is stray voltage in the tank. I really don't know what would be causing it but am more concerned about the possibility of ICH.

04/23/2010, 11:37 PM	#16
steelhead77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 1,117	IMO that is not ich. Ich looks like this: As long as they are eating and swimming normal, just keep an eye on it, when you see other symptoms (lethargy, not eating etc), then begin to take corrective actions. BTW, this tang has fully recovered and is healthy and happy more than a year after this pic was taken. __________________ This really isn't rocket science - it's more like marine biology. Current tank info: 180 gallon AGA, 40 gallon custom sump, AquaC EV240 skimmer, PM calc reactor, 3x 250w DIY MH, PCI CL-650 Chiller, 2x Koralia 4's, 2x Koralia 2's

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