Lots of algae and lots of fish deaths - related?

[nrbelk]

I've recently lost a lot of fish and the ones I do have look fairly stressed out - fast abrupt movements, fast breathing, etc.

At the same time I've had a major algae outbreak/bloom of probably diatom (maybe bubble) and maybe some red slime (not sure about that one though, any one have any pics I can use for reference?).

I've been saving up for a RO/DI unit and will finally be able to get one within the next two weeks. Currently I've been using my tap water and treating it for chlorine.

So my question is why all the fish deaths? Are they related to the algae growth? Even lots of my small zoanthid colonies I have are closing up and not opening as much as they used to.

Is tap water really that horrible that it stresses fish out to death?

My star polyps seem to be thriving and growing. I do have on small frag of some type of birdnest sps and it seems to be growing as well, I'm only able to tell because there are new bumbs of skeleton where there weren't before.

I test my other water paramters and come up constantly with 8.2ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and dropping nitrates (5 weeks ago it got to 20, now it is down to 5 or less than 5).

Ideas? I've lost way too much money in fish and I don't know why.

[Demonic]

Tell us a little more about the tank and what equipment you have. What do you have for water movement. Do you have anything that introduces air into the water, ie a skimmer. Are any of your powerheads pointed towards the surface to create an agitation. If you get a film buildup on top of your tank, then you can suffocate it. The end result would be exactly what you are going through.

[returnofsid]

If your algae problem is Dinoflagallates, it's a good possibility that it could be the problem. They die off at night, taking all the oxygen out of the water, as they die. Because of this life cycle, they can be easily IDd. In the morning, the tank will look great. Throughout the day, they quickly grow, covering everything with SNOT. Next morning, tank looks great again.

Other than that, we're going to need to know a lot more about your tank, to help you with any diagnosis.

What size tank?
How long has it been set up?
Tell us about all your equipment
List all of your livestock.
How do you acclimate?
How fast did you stock your tank?
What fish have died?
What signs have dead fish shown, prior to death?
Explain, in detail, your maintenance schedule.
What, if anything, do you dose?
What all do you test for?
etc.....

[nrbelk]

My tank is 120 gallon 4' tank.
It has been set up for 2 and half months
first livestock was 2 clownfish after two weeks when ammonia disappeared.
Two koralia 3 powerheads
One skimmer, not sure what kind it is.
Water from overflow flows into filter sock then into sump. Bubble trap into refugium has socks of carbon.

Week after I got the two clownfish I got a diamond goby and six line wrasse. Wrasse died 1 day later under a rock. Diamond goby died 2 weeks later after what looked like something caught in his mouth.

Replaced six line, replacement is still alive. Got a coral Beauty. 2 weeks later got a flame angel and yellow tang. Two angels didn't seem to fight. After week and half, both angels stopped moving and died the very next day.

2 weeks after that got 3 bangai cardianls, sailfin tang, and blue hippo tang.

Blue hippo tang died two days later by being eaten by carpet anemone. All three cardinals stopped moving and died 2 days after that.

Week and a half later Sailfin Tang seemed to ich all up and stopped moving, died the next day.

So still in my tank are 1 yellow tang, 2 false percula clownfish, 1 six line wrasse, 1 scooter blenny, and various LPS, 1 SPS, and some zoanthids and softies.

Does that help any?

[Demonic]

Well that helps, but first thing is DO NOT introduce any more fish. We need to help you find out the problem first. Can you post a pic of the tank as it sits right now? Also how long has the tank been set up? It is possibly you didn't complete the cycle, or you are going through another one.

[nrbelk]

as stated in my information post, the tank has been running for 2 months.

[75gsalt]

You may be adding to much livestock at one time triggering another cycle.

[75gsalt]

Do you test ammonia right after you find these dead fish? That may tell you alot

[Blackhawk708]

Don't wanna hijack, but wow this eerily sounds like my situation. I have been getting a decent amount of hair algae lately and back wall would get covered head to toe in algae (prolly dino's), and quite a bit of deep purple cyno poppin up around. But I believe the algea is due to the fact that the tank is in my front room with two huge windows and the shades let to much light through. I also had my CUC snails decimated by a "Conch Snail", damn LFS, until late one night i finally discovered him to be the whelk that he was, sucking a snail out of his shell.

Started my 55 in Decemeber, and recently had my first fish loss my fav. Flame Angel found dead on the sandbed one morning. Never looked or acted sick to me before that. Ate fine, swam everywhere, etc. Had him for about a month or so.

Next loss came a few days ago, with a fish I bought on impulse because I decided to go to the LFS with a buddy and may have been a little intoxicated at the time, oops. Really sweet looking Dragon Wrasse. Anyways, came home and found his head sticking out of the sand, so I went to scoop the dead carcass out before it fowled the tank, only to find he was sleeping under the sand, but not fully buried. But he just kiding skitted across the bottom and found another spot to lie. But a couple days later found that his back half sticking out from under a rock, provided a great meal for the hermits and shrimp.

Only other fish in the tank is a clown that's doing fine, and I even have a RBTA I bought 2 months into setting up the tank against the common census that's still doing fine as well. So I'm wondering what it could be? I am starting to think they were caught chemically? Both Angel & Dragon bought from the same LFS, but clown and RBTA from another.

55gal, no sump yet. I don't have a skimmer either, but I do weekly 5gal+/- WC's. Have about 70# of LR, 1"+/- sandbed. RO/DI water. K2, K3, & a maxijet1200 at the surface. Still not showin any Amonia, Nitrites, or Nitrates. pH usually 8.2 some weeks 8.4.

[sslak]

Edited: Didn't read it all.

[dcombs44]

I think a major point to be aware of (at least in my opinion) is that just because the nitrogen cycle is complete in your system, it doesn't mean your system is matured.

A matured system is going to be more resistant to swings in parameters and be a better environment for your livestock.

I honestly added nothing to my last tank for nearly 6 months after I set it up......and I set it up with matured live rock from a 3 year old system that I had before. A stable system is going to yield much better results than a brand new one.

You can easily crash a new system by adding a bunch of new livestock to it too quickly (or any system). The cycle can't handle the overload of organic matter being added. It has to have time to adjust.

Patience is a virtue in this hobby, and our lack of patience leads to death and gives the hobby a bad name.

Algae blooms in a 3 or 4 or 5 month old tank is probably fairly typical. Take it slow is my best advice.

As far as RO/DI vs. Tap. The Tap is going to be fueling your algae blooms. You're not filtering any of the possible nutrients out of the water prior to putting it into your tank. You can have success using tap, but IMO it's a much safer option to use RO/DI.

[dcombs44]

.......and your star polyps are thriving because they like dirty water.

[KafudaFish]

1. Everytime you add to your tank the tank has to play catch up with its ability to process the waste.
2. The way you are introducing your fish could be causing stress and their deaths.
3. Your algae is coming from the deaths and the excessive nutrients from that. If your TDS is high in your tap water that is also adding to it.

The reason why your water tests zero for nitrate is because the algae are uptaking it. They are acting as a filter so to speak.

[SLove1104]

I doubt it's the fact you have algae that's killing your fish... but the underlying issues of why you have the algae to begin with. I too have an enormous amount of algae as my tank is still in its prime, but I do not get fish deaths... though I do use RO/DI water...

When I first set up my tank in November, I was using tap water, and I could not for the life of me keep inverts alive... They would all die overnight. I ended up doing a 50% water change using someone else's already cycled RO/DI water, and poof... problems gone. So ya... could be the tap water...

[dcombs44]

Originally Posted by SLove1104

I doubt it's the fact you have algae that's killing your fish... but the underlying issues of why you have the algae to begin with. I too have an enormous amount of algae as my tank is still in its prime, but I do not get fish deaths... though I do use RO/DI water...

When I first set up my tank in November, I was using tap water, and I could not for the life of me keep inverts alive... They would all die overnight. I ended up doing a 50% water change using someone else's already cycled RO/DI water, and poof... problems gone. So ya... could be the tap water...

Do you have copper pipes in your home? If so, and you weren't filtering the water, that probably was killing your inverts......or excess nitrates caused by your high TDS tap water.

[travis32]

I Had a plumber in once when our main drain line from sinks and stuff was completely clogged. He realized the drain line was an old old old iron pipe. completely coroded. He said he could replace it with PVC. At the time we didn't do that. However, if the drains have iron pipes, is possible our incoming lines are a combination of copper and/or iron.

Thankfully we put in a water softner to filter out the heavy metals, and I'm using an RO unit to get TDS down to 25. It's not perfect, and RODI would probably be better, but, for now, so far, things are working out o.k.

[johnmaloney]

run some fresh carbon, consider adding more flow, clean it out change a lot of water, wait some time and then consider starting again with a hardy fish and see how you go.

[drew1]

First, as long as you are treating the tap water and being careful with it I highly doubt that is the problem. I used tap water for the first 18 years of doing marine tanks and rarely had problems that I couldn't clearly identify a cause. Likewise, algae in general, is not a bad thing in marine tanks. Maybe not desirable for reef tanks but not bad for fish tanks. Afterall it does add filtration and provides a natural habitat for pods, worms, etc. Its just not aesthetically pleasing. Were the fish all eating before they were purchased? Did they all eat once they were introduced into the tank? How were they behaving? Usually fish are pretty easy to read. Stressed fish don't look like happy fish. I would never personally consider adding more than one larger or at most two small fish at one time. Give the system and the fish a little time to adjust. Do you run a battery of tests every time a fish turns up dead? pH, salinity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates? Nitrates don't generally kill fish, but if they are coming in from 0 and you have something substantially higher it could send them into shock, but at only a few months old your nitrates shouldn't be too high. Do they tend to die at night or during the day? So many variables that must be considered. Good luck.