Need help quick, fish are dieing

[rayn]

Well in the last 24-36 hours I have lost a yellow tang, black and white clown, and now my lawnmower blenny. There is one fish left, another black and white clown. Not being able to nail down the cause of death yet, can or should I even put him in a different tank with a pair of false percs? Will they fight, or would he possibly just spread whatever is the problem?

[sedor]

Go ahead and get him out of the tank, they might fight eventually but its better than dying by morning because of something going on in your other tank.

[rayn]

Tested the water in the main tank, a 55. Ammonia 0, trite 0, trate 0, phosphate 0, salinity 1.025. Secondary tank, a 29, all the same trates at 10. Guess I'll go for the transfer, but I have to figure out what is up with the 55!

[mal1099]

if all your test are good maybe something got introduced to the tank. cleaners from aerosal cans or sprays. other things besides tank parameterscan kill.

[thebkramer]

Did you test for pH and Alk??

[rayn]

Originally Posted by mal1099

if all your test are good maybe something got introduced to the tank. cleaners from aerosal cans or sprays. other things besides tank parameterscan kill.

Possible. Little baby wandering around loves to put her hands in my sump Already thought of that. However, my corals, nems, and inverts seem to be making it fine. Just the fish.

Originally Posted by thebkramer

Did you test for pH and Alk??

Sorry, yes Ph at 8.4 but the alk is a little low around 6 or 107.4 ppm

[tspors]

How old is your tank?? When did you start?

[rayn]

5 months old, but the fish had been in for almost a month happy and eating. I feed half a frozen/thawed cube every other day. Well less now

[Tuscaquatics]

A hundred (fake) bucks says that tang brought in ich. I know that common sense would tell you that you would have seen all kinds of spots or that it would have happened right away. But if you didn't QT him, then I bet that's what happened.

I know, I know. Here comes the Tang Police. Maybe I'm just jaded because it happened to me. But it has to be considered.

[gnashty]

if all the fish came from the same supplier it could be the catching method or some type of infection, if the sump bandit isnt the cause that is

[Ann Marie]

I wouldn't transfer your one remaining clown into another tank unless it is a QT or Hospital tank. If your fish are sick (and that is what is causing them to die) you've just spread it to another tank.

Get a cheap $10 tank and house that fish in it until you can get a handle on what might be wrong. If you have more than one tank, you've probably got a little filter or something that you can put on that tank. Put in a live rock, something for it to hide in and some new water. If you end up doing any kind of treatment don't forget to remove the rock or any carbon.

[rayn]

All from the same LFS, BUT from two different tank systems and two different times. Tang came first, as a hopeful help to the HA then the clowns and their host nem two weeks later. No I'm a bad one and haven't QT them. Probably will from now on though, lesson learned the hard way I guess. Great, now I have to tell the wife I need another tank Haven't moved the other clown yet as I had plans already for the evening, but I just got home and fed him and it seems okay. In his nem, eating as much food as I can give. Thanks for the replies.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

A hundred (fake) bucks says that tang brought in ich. I know that common sense would tell you that you would have seen all kinds of spots or that it would have happened right away. But if you didn't QT him, then I bet that's what happened.

I'll take that bet. Ich typically will not kill fish that quickly. Plus there are signs that would have shown up first. My bet is that something was introduced into the tank via the sump. Maybe it would be a good idea to put a cover over it if you have little ones running around. Just a thought.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

I'll take that bet. Ich typically will not kill fish that quickly. Plus there are signs that would have shown up first. My bet is that something was introduced into the tank via the sump. Maybe it would be a good idea to put a cover over it if you have little ones running around. Just a thought.

I'll take that bet, too. My guess is some chemical got in your tank or sump. Take that fish into your other tank, then change out ALL the water in your 55 and run some carbon.

[rayn]

Originally Posted by Palting

I'll take that bet, too. My guess is some chemical got in your tank or sump. Take that fish into your other tank, then change out ALL the water in your 55 and run some carbon.

Well as of this morning I'm not moving him, as my black now looks like salt and pepper. Definately looks like ich now. Good thing though, he is swimming about four inches away from my k3 straight towards it as fast as he can.

[rayn]

Just a thought before I go the in route, does someone have a good pic of a fish with ich so I can compare?

[Sk8r]

Lid the sump or put it behind doors so the little one cannot access it for feed it cheerios through the mesh. Also be sure the wife is not using WIndex or other cleaners on tank glass. With Windex, you spray your cleaning cloth in another room, then bring it to do a fast wipe on your tank-face. Do not use Murphy's Oil Soap, etc. Do not use carpet fresheners or scented stuff near your tank...you'd probably be ok, but household chemicals including scented candles have been culprits in a lot of mysterious tank deaths; and maids spritzing things about without a clue are downright lethal. So are party guests, who get drunk and do stupid things like drop in pennies and feed the tank a margarita.

[rayn]

Well so far the lone clown seems to be very active. In the nem, out of the nem, swimming all over the tank. Now that my lights are starting to come on I'm looking for anything in the tank. On the glass I'm finding little white bugs (copepods I believe) but then there appear to be different little white bugs that almost look like worms. They are somewhere between a 1/16 adn 1/8 inch long and look to have little hairs outlining their body. They are also see through to white in color. Any idea what these could be? Maybe flatworms, but are they harmful if they are.

[Tuscaquatics]

Originally Posted by rayn

Well as of this morning I'm not moving him, as my black now looks like salt and pepper. Definately looks like ich now. Good thing though, he is swimming about four inches away from my k3 straight towards it as fast as he can.

You guys wanna pay up? That'll be 200 (fake) bucks.

It's only because I went through pretty much the exact same thing when I introduced a powder-brown tang. Seemed fine for a month or so, then over the course of 2 or so days he died, along with everything else in my tank besides a striped damsel. It can happen much quicker than you think.

And you don't always see white spots. When the ich is truly at its worst it attacks the fish's gills and isn't even visible externally.

Besides, what's going to kill the fish dead within a few hours but not bother inverts?

[rayn]

If you went through the same thing how did you overcome it? Did you QT the striped damsel and wait the 8 weeks for the ich to die out?

[Palting]

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

You guys wanna pay up? That'll be 200 (fake) bucks.

It's only because I went through pretty much the exact same thing when I introduced a powder-brown tang. Seemed fine for a month or so, then over the course of 2 or so days he died, along with everything else in my tank besides a striped damsel. It can happen much quicker than you think.

And you don't always see white spots. When the ich is truly at its worst it attacks the fish's gills and isn't even visible externally.

Besides, what's going to kill the fish dead within a few hours but not bother inverts?

Alright. I think you called it. Owe you 100 bucks (fake) .

I still think something stressed the fish out so that the Ich reared it's ugly head and killed the fish. That's why they died so quick. I had and continue to have Ich in my tank, but none of my fish died.

Ok, Rayn. I have set-up a plan for myself to rid my tank of Ich, and I can modify my plan for you.

You only have 1 fish left in the 55 gal, a black and white clown, right? Set up a QT and put him in there. If you have EVER exchanged fish or live rock or coral between your 29 gal and your 55 gal, you have to quarantine the fish from the 29 gal as well, as they may harbor Ich but seem healthy, just like my fish.

Then, treat the quarantined fish with copper or Cupramine. I plan to treat mine with Cupramine and hyposalinity for at least a month

Leave your 55 gal (and your 29 gal if needed) free of fish for at least 6 weeks, or more. The Ich life cycle will proceed, but with no fish to act as host in one stage, they will all die out.

In 6 to 8 weeks , you should have an Ich free tank(s). Quarantine AND treat all future fish purchases.

Here's a link to how I came up with this plan: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1857369

[Tuscaquatics]

Originally Posted by Palting

Alright. I think you called it. Owe you 100 bucks (fake) .

I still think something stressed the fish out so that the Ich reared it's ugly head and killed the fish. I had and continue to have Ich in my tank, but none of my fish died.

Ok, Rayn. I have set-up a plan for myself to rid my tank of Ich, and I can modify my plan for you.

You only have 1 fish left in the 55 gal, a black and white clown, right? Set up a QT and put him in there. If you have EVER exchanged fish or live rock or coral between your 29 gal and your 55 gal, you have to quarantine the fish from the 29 gal as well, as they may harbor Ich but seem healthy, just like my fish.

Then, treat the quarantined fish with copper or Cupramine. I plan to treat mine with Cupramine and hyposalinity for at least a month

Leave your 55 gal (and your 29 gal if needed) free of fish for at least 6 weeks, or more. The Ich life cycle will proceed, but with no fish to act as host in one stage, they will all die out.

In 6 to 8 weeks , you should have an Ich free tank(s). Quarantine AND treat all future fish purchases.

Here's a link to how I came up with this plan: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1857369

Sounds like a great plan. I'd go with this.

It's not what I did, but then again, I did it wrong. I left the damsel in, waited a few weeks then added a cinnamon clown, a very hearty fish. Then I fed garlic for a couple months and battled spots on the fish until they were finally gone. After that I went for another hearty fish, a lawnmower blenny. Since then I've had no problems.

But like I said, this is the wrong way to do it. You're best bet is to QT the clown and QT pretty much any fish you get from now on. Especially most tangs. In fact, with tangs, you might as well go ahead and treat the sucker in QT rather than just observe him, as most of them will quite possibly have something.

Since that issue I've moved my tank into a 75 gallon, and I added a Niger trigger, without QT. He's done fine and everything is well. It's been about 3 months since I've added any livestock. But after seeing what a friend went through with ich recently, I'm definitely QTing everything from now on.

[lisafoster]

That is really fast for all those fish to die from ich if they were not showing symptoms. I bet something found its way into your tank spray , lotion etc. this did not kill clown but stressed him enough to cause the ich. I just had a healthy 6 inch blue throat trigger. I do not know what happened but I had been in my tank alot adding equpitment corals etcc. Maybe my hands introduced something. I had an ich outbreak 8 months ago I did not leave my tank fallow I have not seen ich since . I think even if you leave it fallow the fish could go back in there could be a stressful event then bang its in your tank again. As your system matures it will be more stable to handle it

[rayn]

Good reading palting. I ventured into that thread when you started, but had nothing beneficial to add at the time. The two clowns in the 29 came from the 55, but were moved BEFORE the tang or black and whites were added, and as of now they are clean. I have a spare 29 sitting in wait for my 120 sump, but if I use it for copper it's toast as my sump. Maybe tomorrow I'll go looking for another tank to set up as my QT/HT and set it up.
I'm still racking my head as to what could have stressed them out to bring on the ich though. I have changed nothing in about three weeks except water. Which thinking about it, I was 'in their home'. As posted earlier the only test that was off is alk, and I got a buffer for that, but calcium is the only other thing I dose for.

[rayn]

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

Sounds like a great plan. I'd go with this.

It's not what I did, but then again, I did it wrong. I left the damsel in, waited a few weeks then added a cinnamon clown, a very hearty fish. Then I fed garlic for a couple months and battled spots on the fish until they were finally gone. After that I went for another hearty fish, a lawnmower blenny. Since then I've had no problems.

But like I said, this is the wrong way to do it. You're best bet is to QT the clown and QT pretty much any fish you get from now on. Especially most tangs. In fact, with tangs, you might as well go ahead and treat the sucker in QT rather than just observe him, as most of them will quite possibly have something.

Since that issue I've moved my tank into a 75 gallon, and I added a Niger trigger, without QT. He's done fine and everything is well. It's been about 3 months since I've added any livestock. But after seeing what a friend went through with ich recently, I'm definitely QTing everything from now on.

Things are coming together for my 120 as the bulkheads and drill bit have finally arrived. I don't neccesarily have my sump plans nailed down yet so I'm not really ready to get it going. Tank has been sitting for three weeks now with the factory sticker still in it and I don't want to rush this one at all. Do it once, do it right.

That being said, I on vacation this week and could get it going, not to move fish in, but LR and corals out of the 55. But if I go with paltings other thread and QT them for the 17 days as Capn states, then I might as well QT and leave my 55 fallow and let them stay where they are. Still undecided on the future of the 55 staying salt or going back fresh, but I like salt

As for the 120 I had planned on a powder blue tang, as the wife wants one. Everything I read on them says QT QT QT so I was getting ready for that anyway. This just stepped up my plans.