dots on blue tang HELP

rayn · 09/27/2010, 07:20 PM

Seen this tonight

There are about five of them on this side and one on the other side. Any ideas? The bigger ones also seem to have a small white dot in the center.

RyanAlan · 09/27/2010, 07:51 PM

If you can't capture to get the fish and get it in a QT for Ich treatment I would suggest having him eat as much algae soaked with garlic as possible.

Make sure your water is in good condition in the tank too.

Palting · 09/27/2010, 08:03 PM

That's not Ich.

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

That's not Ich.

Is it not black ich?

Dustin1300 · 09/27/2010, 08:14 PM

ICH would be white spots....Almost looks like microbubbles on the side of the fish. Are you referencing the dark spots on the fish? Before catching the fish and stressing it out chasing around the tank let us first figure out what it has!

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:15 PM

No it isn't ich. Not sure what it is though. Eats good though, as feeding tonight just happened.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin1300

ICH would be white spots....Almost looks like microbubbles on the side of the fish. Are you referencing the dark spots on the fish? Before catching the fish and stressing it out chasing around the tank let us first figure out what it has!

Yep the black dots. No I'm leaving the fish there unless I need to move and medicate. This fish has been in and out of QT about three times now and I'm tired of moving it.

Yep the black dots. Like I said, they kinda have white dots in the center of the big ones.

czinn · 09/27/2010, 08:17 PM

Ich is small white spots not dark discoloration. One of my Clowns has a few darker circles on him and he has been fine for 6 months. How is he eating Is there any odd behavior( does he have rapid breathing, not active ,that kind of thing)

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 08:20 PM

There is something called black ich. It's not ich, but then again ich isn't ich in saltwater, it's cryptocaryon.

Black ich is caused by the Paravortex flatworm.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:21 PM

Nope other then this he is good. Wait, I did happen to notice the other day that his stomack area was kinda rinkly. This has gone away though. Definately not lethargic, you have no idea how many blurred picture I have of this fish trying to get the two somewhat not blurred ones in the original post.

czinn · 09/27/2010, 08:29 PM

It may be a bacterial or parasitic disease. Do you have a QT ready. What are you current water parameters.
this may be it

Tang turbellarian disease, black spot

Causes: Paravortex flatworms

Symptoms: Although the name implies that only tangs are infected, this is not the case. Many species of fish can be infected by this flatworm, but you do have a tang, a hippo. In parasitic phase, these organisms look like numerous dark spots distributed unevenly over the fins, gills, and the body. Other signs include fasting, listlessness, palting, or whitish skin, and scratching aginast objects, secondary bacterial infections are know to occur as well. These signs are common to other infestations by flatworms.

Treatment: Flatworms are a type of worm in a phylum of their own, called platyhelminthes. As with most parasitic infestations, crowding also helps the disease to spread to ther tank mates. immersion in freshwater, trichlorfon, formalin, or praziquantel immersion can be effective.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:35 PM

Yep, that is what is starting to scare me. I have a QT ready, but not ready. If I have to move just the blue tang I could do so fairly easily. If I have to remove all fish and anything else, not so much. I'm in the process of setting my 55 back up, and have a 29 fish only that really is my QT.

Long story short, my original 55 leaked so all my critters moved to the 120. I have 2 false percs in the 120, but a skunk clown in the 29 right now.

If this is black ich, does the tank have to remain fallow of months like I'm reading, or have things changed?

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayn

Yep, that is what is starting to scare me. I have a QT ready, but not ready. If I have to move just the blue tang I could do so fairly easily. If I have to remove all fish and anything else, not so much. I'm in the process of setting my 55 back up, and have a 29 fish only that really is my QT.

Long story short, my original 55 leaked so all my critters moved to the 120. I have 2 false percs in the 120, but a skunk clown in the 29 right now.

If this is black ich, does the tank have to remain fallow of months like I'm reading, or have things changed?

As far as I know, you would have to leave the tank fishless for quite a while, just like with ich.

Did you QT the tang to begin with? How did you introduce him? I'm not trying to be like "I told you so" or anything. I'm just interested in how it happened. I have held out from getting a tang for a while because of issues like this and I want to learn all I can before I get one.

czinn · 09/27/2010, 08:45 PM

Get the tang out and in to the QT Because if you can get him out be for the worms crown and spread. If you see any one else with it you will need to pull every fish out of the tank for at lest 45 days and treat every one with trichlorfon, formalin, or praziquantel.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

As far as I know, you would have to leave the tank fishless for quite a while, just like with ich.

Did you QT the tang to begin with? How did you introduce him? I'm not trying to be like "I told you so" or anything. I'm just interested in how it happened. I have held out from getting a tang for a while because of issues like this and I want to learn all I can before I get one.

I brought him home and straight into QT. Developed ich. Treated with cupramine for 4 weeks while the 120 was finishing cycle. Placed in the 120 and developed ich again. Back into QT. Treated again. Back into 120.

From what I have read and been told, as long as the QT and the DT match on salinity and parameters there doesn't need to be aclimation between the two. That is how I run my tanks. I have been fighting ich for months now and have yet to win the battle. The 55 that leaked had ich. The fish that were in there were never meant to touch the 120 till after QT if at all. I am down right now, but have had 3 QT's running at once to fight this.

I am currently working on setting up a new QT that hopefully make better use of space, but other obligations call me away (read house remodel). Ich is a nasty little bugger, I had a powder brown tang that died in QT trying to fight it.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czinn

Get the tang out and in to the QT Because if you can get him out be for the worms crown and spread. If you see any one else with it you will need to pull every fish out of the tank for at lest 45 days and treat every one with trichlorfon, formalin, or praziquantel.

Easier said then done.

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayn

I brought him home and straight into QT. Developed ich. Treated with cupramine for 4 weeks while the 120 was finishing cycle. Placed in the 120 and developed ich again. Back into QT. Treated again. Back into 120.

From what I have read and been told, as long as the QT and the DT match on salinity and parameters there doesn't need to be aclimation between the two. That is how I run my tanks. I have been fighting ich for months now and have yet to win the battle. The 55 that leaked had ich. The fish that were in there were never meant to touch the 120 till after QT if at all. I am down right now, but have had 3 QT's running at once to fight this.

I am currently working on setting up a new QT that hopefully make better use of space, but other obligations call me away (read house remodel). Ich is a nasty little bugger, I had a powder brown tang that died in QT trying to fight it.

Jeez. See this is what worries me about tangs. Even when you do your due diligence they still can cause problems like this.

Maybe your LFS is doing something wrong to be selling fish with parasites to this degree.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:52 PM

Tell me my best option here. The 29 has the skunk clown and a yellowtail blenny. The 120 has the two false percs. If I remove the tang the only place I have for him to go now is the 29. Should I leave the two fish in the 29 or move them to the 120? I know about the mixing of clowns, but I need the less of two evil here.

This could also be a short lived solution on the clowns. If I were to get the 55 filled and some of the LR moved into it, I could place the skunk in there instead. Possibly tomorrow night.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

Jeez. See this is what worries me about tangs. Even when you do your due diligence they still can cause problems like this.

Maybe your LFS is doing something wrong to be selling fish with parasites to this degree.

I agree. But the blue and the brown came from different LFS. Blue tangs are known for ich. I knew that going in, but it is starting to get a little rediculous.

czinn · 09/27/2010, 08:54 PM

I understand I had to do it with my Powder Blue a few times.

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 08:54 PM

I know you've already got a bunch of tanks, but the best thing is to have a completely separate tank for QT.

Yes, blue tangs are known for ich, but so are powder-browns.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 09:00 PM

Ahhh, but I do. 3 of them all 29 gal. Own lights, own filters, own heaters. One is even dedicated for cupramine so I don't mix them up.

Tuscaquatics · 09/27/2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayn

Ahhh, but I do. 3 of them all 29 gal. Own lights, own filters, own heaters. One is even dedicated for cupramine so I don't mix them up.

OK, so you're just trying to figure out what to do with the rest of the fish in the tank if you have to leave it fallow?

czinn · 09/27/2010, 09:07 PM

In a 120 the clowns should fight for a day or to then pick sides and stay there till feeding time it is what happens in my 55 with a orange pair and a black pair. Yes tangs do get these problems out of the blue. But the normal pull throw. You need a tank for the blue tang as he as a new problem not Ick but black spot. You are now fighting 2 different things Paravortex flatworms and Ick parasites with different treatments you don't want to over stress any one or they will just get worse. You may want to get a rubber maid container one that would be large enough for the fish with ick to all get treated at the same time and keep the tang separate. That is all I can think of.

rayn · 09/27/2010, 09:08 PM

Yep. Currently I have three 29, two 55, and a 40b at my disposal. I do not want to contaminate them. The one 55 is supposed to turn into another reef, mostly corals. The second 55 I was thinking QT. The 40b was aggressive, like a dwarf lion. The 29 are already QT, but one is set up for coral QT with the light and all.

What I don't have is water. Sure I have a RO/DI, but it is 75gpd. It will take me all week to fill these tanks, fight evaporation, and not to mention figuring out a place to place them all. I have a 15 month old that just loves to splash water, lol

09/27/2010, 07:20 PM	#1
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	dots on blue tang HELP Seen this tonight There are about five of them on this side and one on the other side. Any ideas? The bigger ones also seem to have a small white dot in the center. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 08:03 PM	#3
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	That's not Ich. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

09/27/2010, 08:15 PM	#6
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	No it isn't ich. Not sure what it is though. Eats good though, as feeding tonight just happened. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 08:21 PM	#10
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Nope other then this he is good. Wait, I did happen to notice the other day that his stomack area was kinda rinkly. This has gone away though. Definately not lethargic, you have no idea how many blurred picture I have of this fish trying to get the two somewhat not blurred ones in the original post. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 08:35 PM	#12
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Yep, that is what is starting to scare me. I have a QT ready, but not ready. If I have to move just the blue tang I could do so fairly easily. If I have to remove all fish and anything else, not so much. I'm in the process of setting my 55 back up, and have a 29 fish only that really is my QT. Long story short, my original 55 leaked so all my critters moved to the 120. I have 2 false percs in the 120, but a skunk clown in the 29 right now. If this is black ich, does the tank have to remain fallow of months like I'm reading, or have things changed? __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 07:51 PM	#2
RyanAlan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 93	If you can't capture to get the fish and get it in a QT for Ich treatment I would suggest having him eat as much algae soaked with garlic as possible. Make sure your water is in good condition in the tank too.

09/27/2010, 08:14 PM	#5
Dustin1300 Reefaholic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 5,135	ICH would be white spots....Almost looks like microbubbles on the side of the fish. Are you referencing the dark spots on the fish? Before catching the fish and stressing it out chasing around the tank let us first figure out what it has!

09/27/2010, 08:17 PM	#8
czinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: houston Posts: 55	Ich is small white spots not dark discoloration. One of my Clowns has a few darker circles on him and he has been fine for 6 months. How is he eating Is there any odd behavior( does he have rapid breathing, not active ,that kind of thing)

09/27/2010, 08:20 PM	#9
Tuscaquatics Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 1,324	There is something called black ich. It's not ich, but then again ich isn't ich in saltwater, it's cryptocaryon. Black ich is caused by the Paravortex flatworm.

09/27/2010, 08:29 PM	#11
czinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: houston Posts: 55	It may be a bacterial or parasitic disease. Do you have a QT ready. What are you current water parameters. this may be it Tang turbellarian disease, black spot Causes: Paravortex flatworms Symptoms: Although the name implies that only tangs are infected, this is not the case. Many species of fish can be infected by this flatworm, but you do have a tang, a hippo. In parasitic phase, these organisms look like numerous dark spots distributed unevenly over the fins, gills, and the body. Other signs include fasting, listlessness, palting, or whitish skin, and scratching aginast objects, secondary bacterial infections are know to occur as well. These signs are common to other infestations by flatworms. Treatment: Flatworms are a type of worm in a phylum of their own, called platyhelminthes. As with most parasitic infestations, crowding also helps the disease to spread to ther tank mates. immersion in freshwater, trichlorfon, formalin, or praziquantel immersion can be effective.

09/27/2010, 08:45 PM	#14
czinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: houston Posts: 55	Get the tang out and in to the QT Because if you can get him out be for the worms crown and spread. If you see any one else with it you will need to pull every fish out of the tank for at lest 45 days and treat every one with trichlorfon, formalin, or praziquantel.

09/27/2010, 08:52 PM	#18
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Tell me my best option here. The 29 has the skunk clown and a yellowtail blenny. The 120 has the two false percs. If I remove the tang the only place I have for him to go now is the 29. Should I leave the two fish in the 29 or move them to the 120? I know about the mixing of clowns, but I need the less of two evil here. This could also be a short lived solution on the clowns. If I were to get the 55 filled and some of the LR moved into it, I could place the skunk in there instead. Possibly tomorrow night. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 08:54 PM	#20
czinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: houston Posts: 55	I understand I had to do it with my Powder Blue a few times.

09/27/2010, 09:00 PM	#22
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Ahhh, but I do. 3 of them all 29 gal. Own lights, own filters, own heaters. One is even dedicated for cupramine so I don't mix them up. __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

09/27/2010, 09:07 PM	#24
czinn Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: houston Posts: 55	In a 120 the clowns should fight for a day or to then pick sides and stay there till feeding time it is what happens in my 55 with a orange pair and a black pair. Yes tangs do get these problems out of the blue. But the normal pull throw. You need a tank for the blue tang as he as a new problem not Ick but black spot. You are now fighting 2 different things Paravortex flatworms and Ick parasites with different treatments you don't want to over stress any one or they will just get worse. You may want to get a rubber maid container one that would be large enough for the fish with ick to all get treated at the same time and keep the tang separate. That is all I can think of.

09/27/2010, 09:08 PM	#25
rayn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pekin, Il Posts: 2,864	Yep. Currently I have three 29, two 55, and a 40b at my disposal. I do not want to contaminate them. The one 55 is supposed to turn into another reef, mostly corals. The second 55 I was thinking QT. The 40b was aggressive, like a dwarf lion. The 29 are already QT, but one is set up for coral QT with the light and all. What I don't have is water. Sure I have a RO/DI, but it is 75gpd. It will take me all week to fill these tanks, fight evaporation, and not to mention figuring out a place to place them all. I have a 15 month old that just loves to splash water, lol __________________ Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...

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