Ok... so hmm all my fish died

[GT3]

Sigh... some people might know I posted a thread about hydrogen sulfide killing my fish in the tank. But I can't be 100% right cuz I don't smell anything like rotten eggs. Now my only fish left is dead... So I was wondering if I can keep a reef only tank without fish?

I still have an astra snail, two nassarius snail and two blue-leg hermits in there seeming to be perfectly fine, crawling around and eating algae.

Would it be ok or ideal to run a reef only with inverts only?

I have a cheato sump with some bristleworms, feather dusters and copepods

[saltybastard]

Did you test the water? I would make sure you have good water parameters before you keep anything alive in there because corals will die too.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by saltybastard

Did you test the water? I would make sure you have good water parameters before you keep anything alive in there because corals will die too.

The corals are doing exactly the same, dont see any downfall. I have no idea why my fish died, I rearranged my rocks, the next day they are suffering.

NH4 - 0.25
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 5

[hhaase]

Trying to check your other threads to pull together more info on what may have happened.....I see in your signature that you have a 20g tank, and the thread title is "all my fish". What fish did you have in there that died?

[jasonrp104]

As said above, make sure your water is stable first. When a Power outage killed my tank I kept it fishless for about 4 months. The sheer amount of life that took off in there made it worththe wait

[GT3]

Originally Posted by hhaase

Trying to check your other threads to pull together more info on what may have happened.....I see in your signature that you have a 20g tank, and the thread title is "all my fish". What fish did you have in there that died?

Yes, is a 20G. I only have a small blue damsel and the other one I forgot the name, it's similar size to damsel but a lot thinner fish in silver, with yellow band.

[hhaase]

Originally Posted by GT3

Yes, is a 20G. I only have a small blue damsel and the other one I forgot the name, it's similar size to damsel but a lot thinner fish in silver, with yellow band.

The tank seems a bit young to me, so I wouldn't think that the sand bed would have gone toxic so soon. It's usually obvious when it does, the whole tank smells like rotten eggs and the sand below the surface gets black.

The .25 ammonia has me a bit concerned, as your tank may not be fully cycled. But that also may have come from decomposition of the fish if it was left to sit for a while before you removed it. No nitrites, that's good. Nitrates aren't too bad either.

My first guess will be like was mentioned elsewhere, possibly a bacterial bloom when you rearranged the rocks, which depleted the oxygen. How were the fish acting before they died? Sluggish and gasping?

There's also the possiblity that when you rearranged the rocks, that the damsel went aggressive to re-establish territory.... was their any sign that the fish were fighting?

PH stable? Any chance that cleaning chemicals got in the water? Anything else you did lately out of the norm? Dose anything?

-Hans

[GT3]

Originally Posted by hhaase

The tank seems a bit young to me, so I wouldn't think that the sand bed would have gone toxic so soon. It's usually obvious when it does, the whole tank smells like rotten eggs and the sand below the surface gets black.

The .25 ammonia has me a bit concerned, as your tank may not be fully cycled. But that also may have come from decomposition of the fish if it was left to sit for a while before you removed it. No nitrites, that's good. Nitrates aren't too bad either.

My first guess will be like was mentioned elsewhere, possibly a bacterial bloom when you rearranged the rocks, which depleted the oxygen. How were the fish acting before they died? Sluggish and gasping?

There's also the possiblity that when you rearranged the rocks, that the damsel went aggressive to re-establish territory.... was their any sign that the fish were fighting?

PH stable? Any chance that cleaning chemicals got in the water? Anything else you did lately out of the norm? Dose anything?

-Hans

Oh you reminded me, I actually dose phytoplex and liquid calcium from kent recently for the 2nd time.

The damsel and other fish never fight, i know its hard to believe but it's true~ That's why I like my damsel so much, its good looking and peaceful.

The damsel was laying on the sand bed having hard time to swim, no gasping. If I try to touch it, he will swim a bit but no way he has the ability to escape from my fingers.

So without the gasping from both fish, I doubt its something to do with oxygen, I think is more likely a toxin causing them to die instead but not sure what. Because it was only about 12 hrs after I moved the rocks, I saw my damsel on the sand bed, looks like an acute 'poisoning'.

Now the question if everything is fine, corals growing great, inverts eating no sign of sickness. Would it be ok to run just inverts + reef in the long term?

[Sk8r]

Sure it is.
I'm sorry to hear about the fish.
Let that tank stabilize and grow for a bit, like about a month. The best fish for a 20 when you do start again will be the very smallest gobies, and they love to sit in coral, so that will be good. Don't add any more calcium: shrooms and zoas don't use it. Wait til it goes below 420. Likewise alk is quite high. Your tank is a bit warm (take it down 2 degrees, to give you more heat-leeway) and bring your salinity to 1.025. No sump?

I'm kind of betting the problem was oxygenation: with the heat a little high, high-demand fish like the damsel, etc, and only 20 g if I'm reading you right, no sump, you just didn't have enough oxygen producing capacity in your pump/flow situation to keep the fish oxygenated. The slight problem with the water just tipped it over, considering the heat was high-ish---warm water carries less oxygen. This is a guess, understand, but that's what I'm reading in the stats.
Ask if you need more info, but there's no reason this tank can't continue. I'd recommend some of the small perching gobies, with a max size of only an inch or two, adult, or the neon gobies, etc. Getting a sump with some cheato algae would increase the oxygen in the water. A stronger pump with more agitation might be another thing.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Sure it is.
I'm sorry to hear about the fish.
Let that tank stabilize and grow for a bit, like about a month. The best fish for a 20 when you do start again will be the very smallest gobies, and they love to sit in coral, so that will be good. Don't add any more calcium: shrooms and zoas don't use it. Wait til it goes below 420. Likewise alk is quite high. Your tank is a bit warm (take it down 2 degrees, to give you more heat-leeway) and bring your salinity to 1.025. No sump?

I'm kind of betting the problem was oxygenation: with the heat a little high, high-demand fish like the damsel, etc, and only 20 g if I'm reading you right, no sump, you just didn't have enough oxygen producing capacity in your pump/flow situation to keep the fish oxygenated. The slight problem with the water just tipped it over, considering the heat was high-ish---warm water carries less oxygen. This is a guess, understand, but that's what I'm reading in the stats.
Ask if you need more info, but there's no reason this tank can't continue. I'd recommend some of the small perching gobies, with a max size of only an inch or two, adult, or the neon gobies, etc. Getting a sump with some cheato algae would increase the oxygen in the water. A stronger pump with more agitation might be another thing.

Thanks!

Actually I brought the temp down to 80F 2 weeks ago
I also about the sump but is a HOB
I currently have 2 koralia powerheads, there is gentle agitation, but not something strong. Also above one of the powerhead it generated like a spiral water funnel sucking water into the powerhead, I heard it's good for taking out surface slim.

About the goby, I am quite interested in buying too but since I have already got 5 bottom dwelling inverts in there, would it not be too crowded if I add a goby or two? Also the goby you are talking about, can they swim like fire-goby or sand-shifting type goby?

Thanks

[Sk8r]

Sand sifter one SMALL true nassarius snail, to get into the sand. The sandsifting gobies are too big for you, but try one of the little perching gobies: they're up sitting on the corals---they don't bother them, but they're cute as can be, and come in a couple of colors, yellow, and I think orange. The little neon gobies are flashy. And have a blue stripe. Even a royal gramma---as the biggest fish in your display---could be very pretty.

Oxygenation: if you have an area in that hob sump where you could put a small bubbler that might help; but a good growth of cheato under good light and a fast flow would help more.

[Agu]

You posted in the other thread,

My favourite blue damsel was laying around on sandbed for too long I didn't notice so it wasnt helpful I did put him in a bucket though,
I put the only fish left in a bucket and he is recovering now swimming around fine in the bucket.

It probably didn't make it because he was too far gone by the time you got it in the bucket. However it pretty much confirms the diagnosis of low oxygen. Any other type of problem would also kill off your inverts and corals. In a low oxygen environment the largest/most active animals will die off first.

To answer the question in this thread, it's just fine to have a fishless reef. In one of my tanks there are no fish and the most prevalent life form is bristle worms.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Sand sifter one SMALL true nassarius snail, to get into the sand. The sandsifting gobies are too big for you, but try one of the little perching gobies: they're up sitting on the corals---they don't bother them, but they're cute as can be, and come in a couple of colors, yellow, and I think orange. The little neon gobies are flashy. And have a blue stripe. Even a royal gramma---as the biggest fish in your display---could be very pretty.

Oxygenation: if you have an area in that hob sump where you could put a small bubbler that might help; but a good growth of cheato under good light and a fast flow would help more.

Great idea, I never thought to pump air in the sump! I will try.

[hhaase]

Originally Posted by GT3

Great idea, I never thought to pump air in the sump! I will try.

I like the updated signature, it helps give a better idea of what you've got. You may also want to run a build thread in the "Reef Chat" forum that you keep updated, show photos of the whole thing in there. Anything that happens with the tank, post it in that thread. This way people have a better idea of the history of the tank and things from the past that may influence the issues you're having.
Oh, and it's a great place to "show off" when thing are going well too.

Another thought to put into the mix is clean hands. Is it possible that you may have had something toxic on your hands when you put them in there. A lot of people never even think about it, but moisturizing lotions, cleaners and all sorts of stuff that people use on their hands regularly can cause problems in tank water. The smaller the tank, the bigger the effect.

-Hans

[sslak]

80F is still pretty warm.

The majority of us run our tanks at 78F

As Sk8r said, stop dosing everything. Your tank doesn't need it, and it's easy to make a mistake and overdose which can cause far bigger problems than not dosing at all. Water changes will provide everything your inhabitants require until your corals become heavily stocked and start growing out (which should be quite some time).