AI or Vertex Illumina

[Midnightsun]

Hmmm, don"t know which to choose. Both have their pluses and both are the same price. Both have close to the same par output.

Going over a 24" x 24" x 20" deep Cadlights Artisan.

Vertex= Cool and sleek wireless control but will wear off after a little fiddling. No website so to speak of and very limited sales so I worry about warranty and after sales service. http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/vt...4+Inch%29.html


AI= Seems to have great reviews on almost all forums but the design is rather bland, even almost ugly IMHO. Gotta stare at this thing every time I see my tank you know. Website is great and they are sold almost nationally therefor warranty I assume will be rather easy as well as most likely to be around for a long time. http://www.reefconcept.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2097

[Texsun]

I'm in the same boat as you and have an Elos System 70 currently lit by a MH/T5 combo. Would really like to go LED but having a hard time deciding.

Did you look at Acan Lighting? I've played with the Acan and AI units, and although the AI has all the bells and whistles not to mention buzz, the Acans are solid. I'm leaning towards the Acan right now. If only the AI came in a better aesthetic package.

I eliminated the Vertex off my list for the cons you mentioned.

[abereefur]

vertex is a very solid fixture. well built with better programming than any other LED on the market right now.

[Midnightsun]

The Acan is pretty nice but comes in at about half the power/par in their 24" but then again the price is almost half so that explains it. It does not have the dimming or programming features of the two I am torn between. I would prefer to have to much power and tone it down a bit as this only cools things down and extends the life of the leds and if I need the juice for whatever reason I will have it. These are rather expensive toys and I do want to go with the right setup and forget about it first time around if you know what I mean. The sleekness and over all looks has me leaning towards the Vertex. I also like the fact that the controller is built into the side as opposed to being a separate unit and wire to run.

[spartyblaze]

I love the vertex line... great branding too

[Midnightsun]

After much debate and endless reading I found out Vertex is a very solid brand company and they do have a very nice website but does need a little refreshing. They are top quality, made in Austria. I also found out there is a patent issue with orbitec which for the moment is preventing sales of this unit along with many others in the USA. The people who have these in the States have purchased them on line from vendors located in Canada. This IMHO is why they are not in such wide spread use in the USA.

I bit the bullet and purchased the 200 series 24" unit which comes with all cree leds as compared to the previous model which had the philips brand leds. They also carry the 260 series which has stronger cree leds and is claimed to produce 30% more light than the 200 series but price does jump about $140/ft length if you choose to go this route. Personally my tank is 20" deep and the 260 IMHO is better suited for 24"+ deep tanks.

Why did I choose Vertex over AI? Although the specs and reviews make it out to be just as good, I just cannot get over the DIY look of the AI unit. We enjoy "looking" at our aquariums inside but I also like to have the outside as nice and do take pride in the setup there also. Afer all, the aquarium and stand does become a part of our living room decoration for a very long time. A bunch of cords and wires with an old scratched aquarium does little to float my boat. The exterior visual aspect is just as important to me as the inside challenge. Seriously, I could make this unit myself and you would not see the difference in appearance with the original rectangular heat sink and plexiglass finish.

Link to Vertex site. http://www.vertexaquaristik.com/Home.aspx

[TheDogFather]

You won't be disappointed with your purchase decision... I have the 48" Vertex Illumina 200 (Rebel's) over my tank for just over six months and I have amazing growth. I actually visited the factory while I was in Austria on vacation last October and the these fixtures are hand built with the best materials possible and to back that up Vertex is the only LED manufacturer that I know of offering a two year warranty!

The red/UV auxiliary modules should be coming out in the next few months I am told making the Illumina the most advanced LED fixture on the market period.

Cheers!

-TDF

P.S. My LFS just recently upgraded it's show tank fixture from a 200 series to a 260 series Illumina and they had to dimm it right down to avoid bleaching out the corals!

Originally Posted by Midnightsun

After much debate and endless reading I found out Vertex is a very solid brand company and they do have a very nice website but does need a little refreshing. They are top quality, made in Austria. I also found out there is a patent issue with orbitec which for the moment is preventing sales of this unit along with many others in the USA. The people who have these in the States have purchased them on line from vendors located in Canada. This IMHO is why they are not in such wide spread use in the USA.

I bit the bullet and purchased the 200 series 24" unit which comes with all cree leds as compared to the previous model which had the philips brand leds. They also carry the 260 series which has stronger cree leds and is claimed to produce 30% more light than the 200 series but price does jump about $140/ft length if you choose to go this route. Personally my tank is 20" deep and the 260 IMHO is better suited for 24"+ deep tanks.

Why did I choose Vertex over AI? Although the specs and reviews make it out to be just as good, I just cannot get over the DIY look of the AI unit. We enjoy "looking" at our aquariums inside but I also like to have the outside as nice and do take pride in the setup there also. Afer all, the aquarium and stand does become a part of our living room decoration for a very long time. A bunch of cords and wires with an old scratched aquarium does little to float my boat. The exterior visual aspect is just as important to me as the inside challenge. Seriously, I could make this unit myself and you would not see the difference in appearance with the original rectangular heat sink and plexiglass finish.

Link to Vertex site. http://www.vertexaquaristik.com/Home.aspx

[reefkeeps]

"I just cannot get over the DIY look of the AI unit." '

That is exactly why I can't buy one.... I also have an ELOS tank, I need something that looks as good as the tank

The Illumilux LED striplight from Vertex also look like they have some runway....

[Midnightsun]

Originally Posted by TheDogFather

You won't be disappointed with your purchase decision... I have the 48" Vertex Illumina 200 (Rebel's) over my tank for just over six months and I have amazing growth. I actually visited the factory while I was in Austria on vacation last October and the these fixtures are hand built with the best materials possible and to back that up Vertex is the only LED manufacturer that I know of offering a two year warranty!

The red/UV auxiliary modules should be coming out in the next few months I am told making the Illumina the most advanced LED fixture on the market period.

Cheers!

-TDF

P.S. My LFS just recently upgraded it's show tank fixture from a 200 series to a 260 series Illumina and they had to dimm it right down to avoid bleaching out the corals!

Hmmmm, sounds interesting indeed. I assume the word auxiliary means they can be added to existing units?

[unbreakable]

where online did you make your purchase for the vertex?

[Midnightsun]

Originally Posted by unbreakable

where online did you make your purchase for the vertex?

Same place I showed on the first post. When I placed mine, the 24" version went BO as most of them are now. I actually spoke to the fellow over there and they did not anticipate such a high demand.They have shipments coming in regularly. I was surprised at the shipping cost being it was completely across the country at only $23 and that was insured!

http://www.jlaquatics.com/info/410/V...+Fixtures.html

[Wayner2]

Why did I choose Vertex over AI? Although the specs and reviews make it out to be just as good, I just cannot get over the DIY look of the AI unit. We enjoy "looking" at our aquariums inside but I also like to have the outside as nice and do take pride in the setup there also. Afer all, the aquarium and stand does become a part of our living room decoration for a very long time. A bunch of cords and wires with an old scratched aquarium does little to float my boat. The exterior visual aspect is just as important to me as the inside challenge.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

[J.P.Silva]

Originally Posted by Midnightsun

I also found out there is a patent issue with orbitec which for the moment is preventing sales of this unit along with many others in the USA. The people who have these in the States have purchased them on line from vendors located in Canada. This IMHO is why they are not in such wide spread use in the USA.

What I don't understand about all this is.
Why are LED lighting for Aquariums made in the USA, like the ( AI ).
if there's a Patent from Orbitec. Isn't that why Vortex is made in Austria
and not sold in USA

[Anemonebuff]

I am sure that over time they will pay orbitec and start selling in the US. It's a big market they are missing out on. When does the patent run out?

I hope orbitec goes out of business. They never intended on marketing LED aquarium lighting.

[Yogre]

Don't know when the patent runs out, but I did hear that the patent is being challenged. I don't know where in the process things currently stand.

[TheDogFather]

Originally Posted by J.P.Silva

What I don't understand about all this is.
Why are LED lighting for Aquariums made in the USA, like the ( AI ).
if there's a Patent from Orbitec. Isn't that why Vortex is made in Austria
and not sold in USA

Vertex LED fixtures are not made in Austria because of the U.S. patent, Vertex builds them in Austria because the engineering team is based in Austria...

From what I understand, AI is paying royalties to Orbitec and is therefore permitted to sell dimm-able LED lighting for aquariums in the United Sates.

The Orbitec patent is only valid in the U.S. Vertex and other European manufactures are taking a wait and see approach as the Orbitec patents are currently being challenged and may be invalidated leaving the European manufacturers free to sell their fixtures in the U.S. without paying royalties to patent trolls.

Cheers!

-TDF

[Luxo]

Not sure if anyone knows the answer, but I asked this question in vendors forums and noone want to respond.
Does anyone know what is the
lm/w for Blue LEDs in AI?
mV for Royal Blue LEDs in AI?

Vertex is advertising these values but not AI.
I am just getting back into hobby after a few years and trying to do more research this time around before I buy products, specially something this high of a price.
Tks
Dave

[Midnightsun]

Reading between the lines and seeing what is available in the US, I do believe the patent issue has something to do with programable dimming on board such as built into the fixture. May also have something to do with having all the diodes grouped closely together as opposes to the normal separated type as we normally see.

Here are a few excerpts from articles I have read on the net.

At the moment the Vertex Illumina infringes on nearly all of the points of the orbitech patent so the Vertex Illumina fixture will not be shipping to the US market for now.

Due to the Patent restrictions in the United States there is a chance that a simplified version will be available directly to the U.S. market, but we suspect more clarification on the LED aquarium arena will be needed.

When they say simplified version will be available in the US I believe this is what they are talking about. This was announced to be available for pre-order by a US retailer no less than a couple of weeks ago

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/cat...oducts_id=7009

Let me ask you this. Where would we be today if there were no Orbitec patent not allowing production/development/sales in the USA? I personally think we would see some real kick butt systems at lower prices and several to choose from. This Orbitec thing has really hurt the aquarium led industry. I found it strange that we get stuff up here in Canada before you guys. Normally this never happens. Here is another example I have yet to find available in the States.

http://www.reefconcept.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2525

http://www.reefconcept.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2591

[Shard]

Originally Posted by TheDogFather

The red/UV auxiliary modules should be coming out in the next few months I am told making the Illumina the most advanced LED fixture on the market period.

What is the point of the UV add-on module? Red I can understand, because Chlorophyll A has a peak in that range at 680nm, but UV? It is pointless to supplement UV as there are no absorbance peaks in this range.

Hope this helps,
Landon

[TheDogFather]

Originally Posted by Shard

What is the point of the UV add-on module? Red I can understand, because Chlorophyll A has a peak in that range at 680nm, but UV? It is pointless to supplement UV as there are no absorbance peaks in this range.

Hope this helps,
Landon

Some people believe that LED's are not capable of growing corals without UV supplementation, there are a gazillion posts about that very subject right here on RC. I personally do not agree as I see good growth without it but from a marketing stand point it would not hurt to offer UV as an option...

In the end marketing usually always drives product development.

-TDF

[Shard]

Originally Posted by TheDogFather

Some people believe that LED's are not capable of growing corals without UV supplementation, there are a gazillion posts about that very subject right here on RC. I personally do not agree as I see good growth without it

I have heard that argument/'belief' also, but it is nothing but snake oil, so I agree with you. While red may be a good idea to supplement, the UV seems to be a waste of money.

The minor bit of UV given off by most other lighting sources like Metal Halide is filtered out by the glass light shields. So if other lighting options are not supplying UV either, why worry with it?

I have seen many people saying they need 'proof' that LEDs grow corals. The proof is in the science, what else do they need?

Do LEDs provide a broad spectrum of light that covers absorbance peaks for photosythesis (aka: coral growth)? Yes. Period.

End of Story

Originally Posted by TheDogFather

In the end marketing usually always drives product development.

Unfortunately you are right. While marketing is a major component of business, it has a downside. In our hobby, marketing drives the production of products that are useless. The marketing claims and science behind some of those tank additives you see at the LFS don't always match up, and can sometimes, at best, be called hocus pocus.

Landon

[aschweig]

I am thinking of going with a Vertex illumina 260 in a 12" length for a new Cadlights Artisan 50g that I am setting up and am wondering if that would be strong enough to support a mixed tank with some SPS & clams or did I need to go with the 24" length illumina 200?

Thanks for any insight..

[TheDogFather]

LED's are different than any other light source out there as far as coverage is concerned. For a 24" wide tank you will absolutely want a 24" fixture to get complete coverage.

Cheers!

-TDF

Originally Posted by aschweig

I am thinking of going with a Vertex illumina 260 in a 12" length for a new Cadlights Artisan 50g that I am setting up and am wondering if that would be strong enough to support a mixed tank with some SPS & clams or did I need to go with the 24" length illumina 200?

Thanks for any insight..

[sefrayser]

Dam those are expensive. 1200+ for a 24"?

[Kevotron]

Originally Posted by TheDogFather

LED's are different than any other light source out there as far as coverage is concerned. For a 24" wide tank you will absolutely want a 24" fixture to get complete coverage.

Cheers!

-TDF

This totally segways into a question I have before buying my illumina
am building a 6 foot tank 24" deep... contemplating between the 200 or the 260 series and also don't know if I can settle for a 5 foot fixture as is another $700+ dollars for 1 more foot of light.