Copper

[lcf425]

does copper kill bateria i mean those that you get from cycling.Please advise !

[Uncle Salty 05]

No but there should be no need for copper in a tank that is still cycling.
Keep in mind once you treat a tank with copper it can never safely house invertabrates. The rocks and sand will absorb it and leach it back into the water.

[lcf425]

i know. I am just curious what will happen to the bateria after dosing copper in the event when we need to use it in the QT.

[Uncle Salty 05]

A QT should be bare bottom with no sand or rocks with hiding spots for the fish to feel secure in.
You should keep an established filter in your DT that can be placed in your QT when needed.
The copper will not effect the bacteria.

[lcf425]

Noted!! I will have a few PVC pipe for them to hide =) meanwhile I also wish to know if would 15g QT be too small to host a 3inch achillies tang?Last of all what does DT mean ? Thanks for the answers you have provided!

[Uncle Salty 05]

DT = Display Tank.
How big is your DT?
Achilles tangs are a very delicate fish and I would not recommend them for a beginner. I know they are beautiful, but I think it would be best to what until you have at least a few years under your belt before trying this fish.
They should also be kept in a large tank of 125 gallons or more.

[lcf425]

Noted sir! My DT is 160g excluding the sump volume. However by any chance is the QT able to host such a fish as I know it require Alot of space to swim. On top of that I do know they are very ich prone=(

[Uncle Salty 05]

As long as the QT is correctly set up I don't think it would be too stressful if there are sufficient hiding spaces and not too much activity near it.
Ich is not the only concern when it comes to Achilles tangs, they really should be kept in groups of at least three and they can be picky eaters.
I take it you have your eye on one at your local fish store.
If you decide to get it (and I am still advising against it) make sure you see it take and swallow food.
A lot of times they will take the food and spit it out a few seconds later.
You also want take a few minutes and stare at the fish for ANY visible defects such as cloudy eyes, clamped fins, heavy breathing and ANY spot or blemish ANYWHERE on the fish.

[lcf425]

Thank you sir! Then am I right to say I can host almost any fish in 15g QT that's is smaller then 4inches ? And not to worry I am not in a hurry to get the fish just wish to plan my stocklist before hand ^^

[Uncle Salty 05]

For the most part, yes.
Just always research what the adult size of your choices are and keep them in mind.
Good luck to you and Happy Reefing!

[Sk8r]

Good. I would indeed wait to get the tang, first because they are delicate and skittish, and you will make mistakes. Get all newbie mistakes out of your system, and then you'll run more smoothly. Second, many tangs are pushy, and will take as much territory as you offer: such species should be added last, so they understand all the other fish have a right to be there. Thirdly---if you should have to treat, I prefer hyposalinity: copper is a poison, and is hard on the fish---hypo is actually a nice situation for the fish, not so much for the parasites. Just in general, don't put any poison (copper) or antibiotic into your tank: there are a few exceptions, but if any fish store offers to sell you any quick fix for anything that involves dumping something into your tank, come home and ask RC for opinions. Out of our many hundreds of thousands of members, someone's bound to have tried it. This includes remedies for red slime, algae, ich, and such; and I would toss miracle accelerators for bio-activity and coralline growth atop the heap---which are not antibiotics, but which may bring in unwanted chemicals---phosphates are unwanted chemicals, eg; ditto too much of certain chemicals your salt mix has in better balance. My own philosophy is: don't dose anything but calcium, buffer, and magnesium: if you're going to treat, treat in QT, and try not to add anything that stresses the fish you're trying to help.

[DoubleM 10]

Originally Posted by Uncle Salty 05

No but there should be no need for copper in a tank that is still cycling.
Keep in mind once you treat a tank with copper it can never safely house invertabrates. The rocks and sand will absorb it and leach it back into the water.

IME i find this untrue to a point.

in an emergancy cause i did not have a QT tank(which i now do cause the story im going to tell you).

Anyways one of my fish got the ich faster than anticipated. LFS told me their is a natural way to "cure" it. (i know i was nieve. learned my lesson)
Tried that for a while no results.

the fish was laying on the bottom breathing really heavy and it was east to tell it was stressed. lost all color and not eating.(from beting the most aggresive eater in the tank)

i did about 2 hours of research on copper to help.

i then removed all inverts and sold them back to the store.

then added copper.

about 4 days later after doing it how the bottle said(seachem cupramine) the fish was swimming and eating again.

once treatment over i began copper removal.

i used fresh carbon. Changed about every 4-7 days. i also used seachem cuprisorb.

i currently have 5 turbo snails, 1 brittle star.

so it can be done as long as you take the rpopper measures after that. dont get me wrong i will not dose the DT again like that. But if you have to i would say do it.

the bacteria will be fine. i ran a 55 gal with no skimmer and copper for about 1 month till ich was "gone". boiload was not to much to handle.

matt

[lcf425]

first and for most i would like to thanks all you guys for the comment and advises^^!

[lcf425]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Good. I would indeed wait to get the tang, first because they are delicate and skittish, and you will make mistakes. Get all newbie mistakes out of your system, and then you'll run more smoothly. Second, many tangs are pushy, and will take as much territory as you offer: such species should be added last, so they understand all the other fish have a right to be there. Thirdly---if you should have to treat, I prefer hyposalinity: copper is a poison, and is hard on the fish---hypo is actually a nice situation for the fish, not so much for the parasites. Just in general, don't put any poison (copper) or antibiotic into your tank: there are a few exceptions, but if any fish store offers to sell you any quick fix for anything that involves dumping something into your tank, come home and ask RC for opinions. Out of our many hundreds of thousands of members, someone's bound to have tried it. This includes remedies for red slime, algae, ich, and such; and I would toss miracle accelerators for bio-activity and coralline growth atop the heap---which are not antibiotics, but which may bring in unwanted chemicals---phosphates are unwanted chemicals, eg; ditto too much of certain chemicals your salt mix has in better balance. My own philosophy is: don't dose anything but calcium, buffer, and magnesium: if you're going to treat, treat in QT, and try not to add anything that stresses the fish you're trying to help.

noted! it should be my last fish to be in my DT begin my list of fish is

joculator angelfish
achillies tang
sunrise hogfish
colini angelfish
venustu angelfish
candy basslet
helfrichi goby


Could you enlighten me future in the set-up of QT? i have once read a link in RC which they say we need this

1) a tank
2) a heater
3) some minimal lighting
4) a sponge filter or a small canister filter
5) a powerhead
6) some PVC tubing, to provide hiding places for fish

i am just curious whats the heater for? And for a 15G QT would a hang on filter be good enough and act as a powerhead? It also says that air-driven sponge filters can be place in the DT to first host benefitcial bacteria speeding up the process of cycling in the QT however in the event where we would need to dose copper in the QT would you do to the air-driven sponge filters to remove the copper before placeing it back to the DT? Or rather do you mind sharing with me a few picture of your QT for me to view and learn thanks!

[lcf425]

Originally Posted by DoubleM 10

IME i find this untrue to a point.

in an emergancy cause i did not have a QT tank(which i now do cause the story im going to tell you).

Anyways one of my fish got the ich faster than anticipated. LFS told me their is a natural way to "cure" it. (i know i was nieve. learned my lesson)
Tried that for a while no results.

the fish was laying on the bottom breathing really heavy and it was east to tell it was stressed. lost all color and not eating.(from beting the most aggresive eater in the tank)

i did about 2 hours of research on copper to help.

i then removed all inverts and sold them back to the store.

then added copper.

about 4 days later after doing it how the bottle said(seachem cupramine) the fish was swimming and eating again.

once treatment over i began copper removal.

i used fresh carbon. Changed about every 4-7 days. i also used seachem cuprisorb.

i currently have 5 turbo snails, 1 brittle star.

so it can be done as long as you take the rpopper measures after that. dont get me wrong i will not dose the DT again like that. But if you have to i would say do it.

the bacteria will be fine. i ran a 55 gal with no skimmer and copper for about 1 month till ich was "gone". boiload was not to much to handle.

matt

To be honest i am not a fan of copper AT aLL.Because the trouble to remove then is too much and dosing too much will be deadly to fishes as well! And not only will you have to read up on whether the fishes can undergo copper treatment as some of them cant =( I would say i will only use copper when the situation gets very bad(velvet)