Cant shake Ammonia!!!

mvreef · 02/25/2011, 08:47 PM

I'm new to the hobby and my tank is 7 weeks. Setup is 29g, 30lbs live sand, 17 lbs live rock with 11lbs base rock, water temp 77*F.

I lost a hermit crab 12 days ago. I've been through 2 water changes since.

Ammonia is still at .25ppm and Nitrates 2ppm.

What am I doing wrong?! I can't shake these numbers. Water parameters were perfect before the crab died...

Harry_Y · 02/25/2011, 08:50 PM

Not enough Patience, slow down and let the tank mature

Virtuoso · 02/25/2011, 08:53 PM

What else is in the tank right now?

mvreef · 02/25/2011, 08:57 PM

2 peppermint shrimps, 2 more blue leg hermits, 2 nassirus snails, 3 trochus snails, 2 turbos.

I am starting to think I have overloaded the tank too soon with inverts

Angel*Fish · 02/25/2011, 09:00 PM

Assuming your nitrite and ammonia are on their way down and nitrates are going up, it sounds like you are almost there.

mvreef · 02/25/2011, 09:02 PM

Do you recommend I keep doing my water changes every 7-10 days?

Virtuoso · 02/25/2011, 09:02 PM

I don't know much, but I would think either take out the inverts and put them in a QT tank if you can, or just make sure you remove anything that dies ASAP so it does not make things worse. Like Angel*Fish said, I think you are almost there but you do not want to go into another cycle. Maybe use something like Amquel Plus to help out with the Ammonia? Would wait for someone more experienced to comment on that, though.

landers96 · 02/25/2011, 09:03 PM

slow down and give it time. nothing good happens fast

Virtuoso · 02/25/2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvreef

Do you recommend I keep doing my water changes every 7-10 days?

Maybe do 10-20% water changes every day for the next 4-5 days? Maybe that will help?

mvreef · 02/25/2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virtuoso

Maybe do 10-20% water changes every day for the next 4-5 days? Maybe that will help?

I appreciate this advice but does anyone else concur with such frequent water changes?

I've heard changing water too freqently can create new tank syndrome.

WXB · 02/25/2011, 09:07 PM

the tank is just doing its thing. the tank will spike at some point it has to. but just rember you could be doing more damage by freaking out and changing all of the water the water you have needs to cycle. Crabs do die. I have about 30 in my 29 and few crabs sanails and such. you can put a lot in the little 29 gal. you need to let you tank sit for 1 to 2 months before you add any life. just sand water and rock heat and light for 1 to 2 months for a better SLOW START.

snorvich · 02/25/2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

Assuming your nitrite and ammonia are on their way down and nitrates are going up, it sounds like you are almost there.

Cool chart Marie. I agree that things are progressing nicely and your colonies of bacteria are being established. Be patient. Things will establish themselves nicely on their own.

Angel*Fish · 02/25/2011, 09:47 PM

Thanks, I'm a good googler.

Mv reef, I reread your original post and you said you're params were perfect before the crab died? In other words your cycle was already complete? If that's the case what happened to the dead crab? Did the clean up crew eat it or did you remove it? Apparently I was having a brain burp when I read your post because I also I misread your nitrates as nitrites. Did you test those?

Bottom line is if you were clear before the crab died, it must have caused an ammonia spike. It should clear up soon.

mvreef · 02/26/2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

Thanks, I'm a good googler.

Mv reef, I reread your original post and you said you're params were perfect before the crab died? In other words your cycle was already complete? If that's the case what happened to the dead crab? Did the clean up crew eat it or did you remove it? Apparently I was having a brain burp when I read your post because I also I misread your nitrates as nitrites. Did you test those?

Bottom line is if you were clear before the crab died, it must have caused an ammonia spike. It should clear up soon.

I was fully cycled at the time the hermit died and very reputable LFS confirmed that I was cycled. The nitrites are 0ppm but my NITRATES rose last night to 4ppm and AMMONIA is still at 0.25ppm.

The crab was partially eaten as I saw just a few legs in a corner of the tank. I have since removed what I could find.

I did a water change Thursday. Do you recommend another water change Sunday?

Angel*Fish · 02/26/2011, 10:46 AM

Have you tested this morning? Your parameters should be improving since you were cycled.

Angel*Fish · 02/26/2011, 11:05 AM

We must have been typing at the same time. I honestly don't know what that means, but it sounds like nitrite is being converted to nitrate faster than ammonia is being converted to nitrite. That may be completely normal and possibly why they call it an ammonia spike and not a nitrite spike.

That is a low level of ammonia - as long as it doesn't go higher, I believe most organisms will survive. Doing a 30% water change would only reduce your ammonia by a third. I have read that running carbon can help and there are some chemical products like amquel that can be used.

I'd be inclined to monitor it and wait it out. If it goes higher, I'd take immediate action.

Angel*Fish · 02/26/2011, 11:20 AM

I was worried about your shrimp so I was doing some research and never found anything more specific than shrimp are extra sensitive. I did find this by Randy Holmes Farley:

In all of these situations, I recommend striving to keep ammonia below 0.1 ppm total NH₄-N. If the level rises above 0.25 ppm total NH₄-N, I suggest taking immediate action, such as using an ammonia binder or performing water changes.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php#15

02/25/2011, 09:00 PM	#5
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	Assuming your nitrite and ammonia are on their way down and nitrates are going up, it sounds like you are almost there. __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums

02/25/2011, 09:47 PM	#13
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks, I'm a good googler. Mv reef, I reread your original post and you said you're params were perfect before the crab died? In other words your cycle was already complete? If that's the case what happened to the dead crab? Did the clean up crew eat it or did you remove it? Apparently I was having a brain burp when I read your post because I also I misread your nitrates as nitrites. Did you test those? Bottom line is if you were clear before the crab died, it must have caused an ammonia spike. It should clear up soon. __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums

02/26/2011, 11:05 AM	#16
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	We must have been typing at the same time. I honestly don't know what that means, but it sounds like nitrite is being converted to nitrate faster than ammonia is being converted to nitrite. That may be completely normal and possibly why they call it an ammonia spike and not a nitrite spike. That is a low level of ammonia - as long as it doesn't go higher, I believe most organisms will survive. Doing a 30% water change would only reduce your ammonia by a third. I have read that running carbon can help and there are some chemical products like amquel that can be used. I'd be inclined to monitor it and wait it out. If it goes higher, I'd take immediate action. __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums

02/26/2011, 11:20 AM	#17
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	I was worried about your shrimp so I was doing some research and never found anything more specific than shrimp are extra sensitive. I did find this by Randy Holmes Farley: In all of these situations, I recommend striving to keep ammonia below 0.1 ppm total NH₄-N. If the level rises above 0.25 ppm total NH₄-N, I suggest taking immediate action, such as using an ammonia binder or performing water changes. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php#15 __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums

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02/25/2011, 08:47 PM	#1
mvreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 98	Cant shake Ammonia!!! I'm new to the hobby and my tank is 7 weeks. Setup is 29g, 30lbs live sand, 17 lbs live rock with 11lbs base rock, water temp 77*F. I lost a hermit crab 12 days ago. I've been through 2 water changes since. Ammonia is still at .25ppm and Nitrates 2ppm. What am I doing wrong?! I can't shake these numbers. Water parameters were perfect before the crab died...

02/25/2011, 08:50 PM	#2
Harry_Y Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NY Posts: 454	Not enough Patience, slow down and let the tank mature

02/25/2011, 08:53 PM	#3
Virtuoso Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 727	What else is in the tank right now?

02/25/2011, 08:57 PM	#4
mvreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 98	2 peppermint shrimps, 2 more blue leg hermits, 2 nassirus snails, 3 trochus snails, 2 turbos. I am starting to think I have overloaded the tank too soon with inverts

02/25/2011, 09:02 PM	#6
mvreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 98	Do you recommend I keep doing my water changes every 7-10 days?

02/25/2011, 09:03 PM	#8
landers96 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: vermilion Posts: 361	slow down and give it time. nothing good happens fast

02/25/2011, 09:07 PM	#11
WXB Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 258	the tank is just doing its thing. the tank will spike at some point it has to. but just rember you could be doing more damage by freaking out and changing all of the water the water you have needs to cycle. Crabs do die. I have about 30 in my 29 and few crabs sanails and such. you can put a lot in the little 29 gal. you need to let you tank sit for 1 to 2 months before you add any life. just sand water and rock heat and light for 1 to 2 months for a better SLOW START.

02/26/2011, 10:46 AM	#15
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	Have you tested this morning? Your parameters should be improving since you were cycled. __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums