Tank not like it should be

[strayvoltage]

I have had a problem with my 300 gallon reef not being what it could or should be from the very start. To begin with I had high phosphate and hi nitrate levels. I was able to bring them both down to zero with the use of vodka. I still dose a daily maintenance dose of vodka and the reading are still zero. I can not get any coraline algae to grow in the main tank or very little if it does. I do have the four ten inch solar tube for the main light source on the tank. Along with the solar tubes I do have three 250W MH pendants with 20K bulbs. For about the last three months I have had the solar tubes blocked off, I was trying to find out if the sun light was the cause of no coraline growing. I have decided that the sun light was not the problem, this past Sunday I opened them back up and allowed the light back in the tank. After only about 15 mins. the corals were lovin the light.

I have been dosing home made two part for about eight months or so now. The cal. reads between 425 and 450 every time I test it. The home made two part seems to be working as far as that goes but I am wondering if maybe it is missing something that is needed in the tank. I have picked up some B- Ionic and will start dosing it tomorrow. It will last for a month and I hope to see some change in that time. I hope I figure it out soon because I am pulling my hair out over it and as you all well know, I don't have much left to pull out.

It is funny how we can have one tank that does beautiful and upgrade to a bigger tank and then have everything go to crap. I had the 125 set up as a reef for just over two years and it was always beautiful, the corals grew like weeds and there was never any problems to speak of, it even ran for a year on my well water and I didn't even have RO water yet. I still have the same water source the same salt and used all the same rock with the addition of another 160 lbs. and yet the 300 just won't straighten out and get nice like the 125 was.

At times I have been ready to take it all down and sell everything, but I don't give up very easy. I will figure it out and after I do I will once again have a nice looking reef.

[strayvoltage]

A few shots from the past of the 125, I just feel like the 300 just does not compare.

[pnavarro170]

no worries john, i think being with sunlight and bigger, it has a more natural look, its beauty in a different way. this tank is gorgeous as well obviously. but give the b ionic 2 part 2 months at least please, thats when i saw it kick in. check my progress pics in my 90 build. around december then around feb march. i started dosing at the end of dec. or early jan i cant remember. and hope you got the gallon jugs, cuz you have to dose what 90ml a day ???

what other benefit would vodka do for me ?? if i tried it ?? my nitates are pretty much always zero.

[jmait769]

Originally Posted by strayvoltage

I still have the same water source the same salt and used all the same rock with the addition of another 160 lbs. and yet the 300 just won't straighten out and get nice like the 125 was.

At times I have been ready to take it all down and sell everything, but I don't give up very easy. I will figure it out and after I do I will once again have a nice looking reef.

John, where did the other 160 pounds of rock come from? Just thinking that is the only other variable that was not in the 120. Weird for sure. Hey, ask a mod to move your 300 tank build thread off of the dead forum to our forum! You would think they would be able to do that.

Jay

[strayvoltage]

Pedro, I dose 70ml a day the cal always reads at or around 425 when tested. The only thing I can think of is that maybe there is something missing in the home made two part.

Jay the other 160 pounds of rock came from two other tanks. I do know both of them had hair algae in them. The rock was all dry and dead when I added it, thhere was never a HA problem but I do know that is where the phosphate came from in the tank.
Good idea on trying to get my build thread moved over thanks.

[pnavarro170]

right so when are u starting the b ionic? and please give it 2 months at least with that.

[stvguerrero]

Keep up the hard work I know you have the knowledge and experience to get ur 300 just as amazing like ur 125 , patience is the key

[strayvoltage]

Pedro, I mixed the b ionic last night so it will be started on friday morning. The cal is up there so if it is going to make a difference I should start to see it in a month but am not against trying it longer. I use to dose with it before and know it works but don't know if it works any better that the home made two part.

stvguerrero, you are so correct patience is key.

[psuedopimp]

but you started the 300 with b-ionic correct? and it never got off to the start you wanted. how long have you been using the homemade stuff? i know i was all for the switching back to b-ionic to test, but now thinking about it im not sure we will see anything. i am now leaning towards a swing or instability of some sort.

i would say switch to kalk and put it in your ATO to minimize swings, but you do it manually.
maybe that is the prob. salinaty swings and alk swings.

sorry just trying to think since i have a spare min.

[pnavarro170]

Well if u used it before that's fine. Just saying I didn't see results for 2 months. So if u can give it a fair shot.

[bmw_zoan]

Wow thats an amazing looking that if I had that tank I would not upgrade lol I would of just gotten a new one and keep that one haha

By the way I just started using B-Ionic too, is there any one else apart from Pedro, John, and me that use B-Ionic?

[deehz]

John--ok, wow I see what you mean. Do you have any macro algeas in the sump? Chaeto? How are they doing? What's your Mg levels at? Do you have wild alk/Ca swings?

Mg is a necessary component to any reef. If it is low, it can cause some real havoc in your system. Mg keeps Ca and Alk in check at the right levels. Also, I had mentioned before but do you have a filter on your solar tubes to prevent the yellow light to come through? I know you know that synthetic light will show the colors more then natural light. Did you see a color change from your MH/actinic lights then natural light when you opened the solar tubes?

Do you think that dosing with vodka over 3 years might be the cause of the loss of coloration/growth? Vodka isn't natural to any reef. Lol Do you think if you conducted an experiment and weaned the tank off of vodka for a period of a month and see how the tank reacts? It might be a solution to where the system may no longer need to be dosed with vodka. The bacterial colonies in the system should be fully coolonized and healthy by now. My readings on this method were only a means of short term bacterial introduction to combat NO3/PO4 versus long term.

[strayvoltage]

Justin, I don't think I have swings but there may very well be and I don't test when they are going on. I think in a system this size you would have to allow it to be very low on water then top off to make a difference. I could be wrong. I do know that I don't add top off any differently than I did in the 125 and it never seemed to be a problem. I did start off with b ionic but all the rock had great coraline on it and after a long time it died off, I don't remember if it was before or after the start of home made.

bmw, if I had the room I might have done just that.

Hans, I believe the Mg is ok and my Ca and alk are steady. I don't think you can obtain high Ca. if you don't have Mg level where it should be and I do know the Ca is at or around 425 to 450. I do have macro algae in the sump and it does well. From what I know about the vodka dosing there are tanks out there that have been using it for years and no bad has come of it. It feeds the bacteria and makes it multiply faster. I do know that the rocks must still have some phosphate bound in the because if I lower the vodka dose the phosphate starts to come back.

I do not have a filter of any sort on the solar tubes and they should not be needed. The corals all love the sun light and they show it right away when they get it. The yellow light does not hurt the corals. The best growth of corals i ever had was with the orbit 6x96W power compact light and it was half 6700k and half 10000k. The coral grew like weeds and had nice color. That light is what was on the 125.

I really appreciate all the help here and the ideas. Please keep them coming and maybe one of us will put our finger on something.

[mistaflicksta]

Originally Posted by bmw_zoan

Wow thats an amazing looking that if I had that tank I would not upgrade lol I would of just gotten a new one and keep that one haha

By the way I just started using B-Ionic too, is there any one else apart from Pedro, John, and me that use B-Ionic?

I use bionic now, ive been using it since last week

[bmw_zoan]

haha man apparently pedros success with the b ionic is making everyone use it? :P

[deehz]

John--the few threads I have read on solar tubes was that they all had filters to filter out the red and yellow light spectrums. No, yellow light does not hurt corals at all. That's not what I was trying to convey. However the few threads I did read that did have the filters on their solar tubes saw phenomenal growth and color on their corals.

Nertheless, if you stopped the dosing of vodka and saw PO4 levels rise'and quite possibly NO3, that may be your issue. The rocks in the system could very well be the culprits. Tests kits measure organic particlutes, not inorganics.

So by starting to dose B Ionic may not be the solution. The catalyst here may very welll be your live rock. It may need to be changed because no matter how often or how long you dose with B Ionic or vodka, the issue is still in the rocks. It's like putting rubberbands on a leaky pipe. The problem is that over time, you keep trying to fix the "leak" with rubberbands instead of replacing the pipe. Eventually, those rubberbands will not work and cause complete system failure.

I have read this in many many threads were people in the hobby keep masking the issue even though they know what the culprit is. They keep on fighting it with vodka, dosing, biopelletes, reactors, massive skimmers, etc and dumping tons of money with tons of headaches. Whereas if they had replaced the rocks, sand, or cleaned the system, less money and headaches could be saved and prevented.

Just trying to help you out my good friend. I know this hobby can make the wisest person go crazy. But the end results are quite simply beautiful. Nature is truly wonderful.

[pnavarro170]

yeah i hope your not all using it cuz of me. im pretty sure your not. i tried kent 2 part and it did nothing. also i do have to mention i havent done a water change on the 90 in about 3 months also. first water change is on this move well because i didnt have enought water. haha. added 55 gallons of new water with red sea coral pro. so guys im just trying things different as is everyone. but i try to keep it simple. and we will see where it gets me during this next year.

[jmait769]

Originally Posted by deehz

So by starting to dose B Ionic may not be the solution. The catalyst here may very welll be your live rock. It may need to be changed because no matter how often or how long you dose with B Ionic or vodka, the issue is still in the rocks. It's like putting rubberbands on a leaky pipe. The problem is that over time, you keep trying to fix the "leak" with rubberbands instead of replacing the pipe. Eventually, those rubberbands will not work and cause complete system failure.

I have read this in many many threads were people in the hobby keep masking the issue even though they know what the culprit is. They keep on fighting it with vodka, dosing, biopelletes, reactors, massive skimmers, etc and dumping tons of money with tons of headaches. Whereas if they had replaced the rocks, sand, or cleaned the system, less money and headaches could be saved and prevented.

Just trying to help you out my good friend. I know this hobby can make the wisest person go crazy. But the end results are quite simply beautiful. Nature is truly wonderful.

I believe it may be the rock also and agree with Hans. You may have read this but here is some info from an article written by Randy Holmes-Farley: Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium Under “Phosphate Reduction via Calcium Phosphate Precipitation” he talks about using kalk to precipitate out phosphate:

“It is this ongoing precipitation of calcium carbonate, then, that may reduce the phosphate levels; phosphate binds to these growing surfaces and becomes part of the solid precipitate.

If the calcium carbonate crystal is static (not growing), then this process is reversible, and the aragonite can act as a reservoir for phosphate. This reservoir can inhibit the complete removal of excess phosphate from a reef aquarium that has experienced very high phosphate levels, and may permit algae to continue to thrive despite all external phosphate sources having been cut off. In such extreme cases, removal of the substrate may even be required.”

I worried about excess phosphate using the Marco rock and still have my fingers crossed that it does not rear up its ugly head.

Jay

[strayvoltage]

Hans I don't know each and every rock that came from the other two systems and it would be very difficult to take them out even if I did. I am sure with time that the phosphate that is locked up in the rocks will leach out. By dosing the vodka it makes there me more bacteria to take in the phosphate up and allow the skimmer to pull it out.

I just finished testing the Mg @ 1300 and all others numbers as of yesterday were good and spot on. The corals that are in the tank have great color and do seem to be doing well. I can not keep any SPS alive for even a week, never have been able to even in the 125 when it was up. The only SPS I have ever been able to keep at all were cap's. This could very well be due to the fact that I always have a lot of leather corals in the tank. I really don't care if I can keep SPS or not because that is not my coral of choice anyhow. I do like the cap's for sure and would like them to do well in the system again.

Maybe I am just not supposed to have purple rocks and that is how it is going to be. All of the fish, crabs, snails and starfish do great and I have no problems with them.
I think you can see why I am not happy with the look of the tank after having the 125 look like it did for so long. There was nothing special that I done to it.
Even the tanks that the other 160 lbs. of rock came out of were nice tanks and had good color but they just had a load of GHA in them.
Thanks for the help, like always it is welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks Jay, I will give it a read. I don't have detectable phosphate in the tank now. That is not to say that the rocks may not still hold some in them, but the vodka does work to make the bacteria multiply and use it up and be taken out by the skimmer as it leaches out and keeps the reading at zero. I really don't think the rock is the problem but it very well could be. The reason I say this is that the tanks it came out of looked nice other than having the GHA.

[mistaflicksta]

I started using it because Korallen zuch is very expensive

[deehz]

Oh I see now. You say thanks to Jay but not to ME?! You agree with Jay but not with ME even though he said the same thing and agreed with ME?! I thought we were friends. We had a beer together! Where's the LOVE?!

[strayvoltage]

Hans, maybe you missed it myfriend. Come on little buddy you know i couldn't leave you out.

Maybe I am just not supposed to have purple rocks and that is how it is going to be. All of the fish, crabs, snails and starfish do great and I have no problems with them.
I think you can see why I am not happy with the look of the tank after having the 125 look like it did for so long. There was nothing special that I done to it.
Even the tanks that the other 160 lbs. of rock came out of were nice tanks and had good color but they just had a load of GHA in them.
Thanks for the help, like always it is welcomed and greatly appreciated.

[jmait769]

Originally Posted by deehz

Oh I see now. You say thanks to Jay but not to ME?! You agree with Jay but not with ME even though he said the same thing and agreed with ME?! I thought we were friends. We had a beer together! Where's the LOVE?!

Hans - I’m thinking it is the rock!!























j/k

John - are you run carbon and/or GFO?

Jay

[deehz]

I'm just messing with John because I can. Lol!

[amore169]

John I been thinking about this one, have u tested how much light are u getting at the bottom of your tank? How long do u have the LB running? Also your live sand how long have u had it?