Fish getting wiped one by one!! HELP! (with pics)

[ryanuuy]

Hi guys, let me start with a short description of my tank. Its a 150g SPS reef that has been with me for over a year. Everything was doing great till just a few days ago. I use biopellets, a XP3000 skimmer(rated 350g), and i run AC all in my 80g sump.

Here's the problem: 2-3 weeks ago i asked my friend who was going to singapore to purchase a mitratus butterflyfish for me. When it got home, everything was okay and it was eating by the next day so i had no reason to suspect anything wrong. I went away for 5 days and left the tank under the care of my brother as i have done many times in the past and when i got home everything was still okay except the mitratus was discolored, its eyes were cloudy, it wasnt swimming out in the open anymore and its scales were falling off.

I thought immediately that its probably flukes because of the cloudy eyes so i treated right away with praziquantel and did a FW dip but that didnt seem to help. It died after 2 days and i thought maybe i was just too late to save it. I did a FW dip to confirm if it was flukes but looks like it wasnt. The cloudiness in the eye never left and nothing was coming off its skin but scales. Yes, i did double check if it was scales and they were.

First Mitratus Pics:





The next day, my other mitratus and declivis butterflyfishes were acting all weird. They were still eating a lot but they were discolored. I added more selcon to their food and hoped that when i get home from work, they would still be okay. When i arrived that night, the declivis was on its side and the mitratus was looking even paler. I caught them both and immediately set up a 40g hospital tank and placed them both there. I was already so confused as to what it could be. My friend got a fish from that same batch and his fowlr was getting wiped the same time as mine and he suspected that it was brooklynella. I immediately added furan-2 and formalin to the QT in the hope to save them but by the next day, the declivis was a gonner and the mitratus wasnt looking good anymore. That afternoon, it died as well. I tried comparing their pics to those of fish affected by brook but im not 100% convinced it is but it’s the most likely candidate I think.

Declivis and 2nd mitratus: You wll noticve that the eyes arent cloudy like the first mitratus









Today, one of my randal anthias and my royal gramma(both have been with me for more than a year and were super healthy) died.

Please guys! HELP ME!!! I know i should have put the mitratus on QT but the LFS already had him in QT for over a week and they assured me he was good to go.

My next step now is to catch all the fishes in my tank by tomorrow morning and treat them all. As to what i should add to the hospital tank, im not sure yet. Please feel free to add comments!

[RBU1]

That stinks..

It could be anything.......The fish could have brought somthing in that just took a few weeks to get to a level that would start killing others.

Good Luck.

[ryanuuy]

I know... My HYT which has been with me for over a year is now showing signs of getting affected. His skin is starting to discolor and turn white! I caught him and a few other fishes and they are being housed in a 5g emergency tank with furan-2 and a bit of methylene blue.

[rocking]

it look like ick and something eles

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by rocking

it look like ick and something eles

What is those pictures do you see that would make you say that?

I don't see anything that would leave me to believe it was crypt. Please enlighten me....

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by ryanuuy

I know... My HYT which has been with me for over a year is now showing signs of getting affected. His skin is starting to discolor and turn white! I caught him and a few other fishes and they are being housed in a 5g emergency tank with furan-2 and a bit of methylene blue.

Do you have the ability to do a large water change? It almost sounds bacterial to me.

[ryanuuy]

Yeah im thinking that its bacterial as well. I was wondering that perhaps my biopellets may be feeding it or making the problem worse?

Yes, i am pretty sure its not ich. I have had ich in my fishes before and this is nothing like it. I am doing a pretty large water change tomorrow. 40% of my water and im removing all my fishes as well.

[Sk8r]

I'm betting bacterial, and perhaps a fallow period in the DT to get rid of it...though I'm hoping that will work---bacteria are great survivors. There are a few things you can treat a DT with, like Red Slime Remover (erythromycin) that won't totally blitz the sandbed. But the infected fish are another matter. I'm betting a broad spectrum antibiotic...maybe Metronidazole, which is very broadspectrum and handles fungus. I can't find any lit on any cautions with butterfly fishes. But---that just means I can't find any. Jungle is putting out a food that has antibiotic content, and it is for freshwater fish, but if you can use any vehicle to get a dose down the fish, heck with the nutrition for a week or so. Soaking food in Metronidazole is another route.

[ryanuuy]

Yes that is exactly what im planning. 2 months of running the tank with nothing but the corals in them to get rid of this parasite or bacteria!

My HYT is looking similar to this already(This is NOT my picture and just something i found off the net)



The site says that its brooklynella.

My theory would be that it was brooklynella which then lead to a secondary bacterial infection once the fishes were in a weakened state. What do you think?

[Sk8r]

I almost said brook, except for some of the other symptoms, but a combo of same...possible. That's a nasty situation. I almost wonder about UV filtration, at least temporarily, on that main tank.

[LargeAngels]

I'd bet it is velvet. Velvet is really nasty and can spread fast. A very good test is to do a FW dip and see if anyting falls off. Velvet will fall off in a FW dip and looks like fine white spots/powder. If not then I would think it might be brook. If it is velvet then to only real treatment is copper (like Cupramine) in a seperate QT.

[ocellaris123]

Originally Posted by LargeAngels

I'd bet it is velvet. Velvet is really nasty and can spread fast. A very good test is to do a FW dip and see if anyting falls off. Velvet will fall off in a FW dip and looks like fine white spots/powder. If not then I would think it might be brook. If it is velvet then to only real treatment is copper (like Cupramine) in a seperate QT.

I agree with this, velvet kills fast ime. Wiped my whole display out in less than 48 hours.

[Pallobi]

LFS's say, for the most part will tell you anything to get the fish out of there door and get the income... a week is no where near enough for a proper QT, which i doubt they where properly qt'ing anyhow... i am sorry for your misfortune, but you should have taken the necessary steps ahead of time... Good luck from here on out, live and learn

[steelhead77]

I've been to most of the LFS's and fish farms in Singapore a number of times. They are NOTHING like the LFS's here in the states. I am not a huge fan of QT's, but if I had bought a fish in Singapore there is NO WAY I would have put it in my tank without a long QT period.

On the plus side, they do get some awsome fish, that are difficult to get here, for some very good prices. You just need to be careful before adding them to you tank.

[RBU1]

I am in no way suggesting you try this.....I am even scared to try it myself. But there is a Saltwater guy in North Carolina that I had a lengthy phone conversation with. He has been in the hobby for over 30 years and has been using quinine drugs in his reef as needed. He states that the dosage is extremly important and you must know your exact water volume. Here is his website

http://www.tntsaltwateraquariums.com/

If you are willing to give it a try feel free to give him a call. He seems like a real knowledgable guy. Like I said I am to scared to try it. he claims Tetra used to have a reef safe parasite product that was succesful that used quinine based drugs. But for some reason they pulled it from the shelves because other companies complained about it. He told me the stroy but I forget. If you or anyone decides to give it a try let me know how you make out.

[ryanuuy]

Yes, after reading a bit more about it, i am starting to get convinced its velvet probably. Come to think about it, i did notice a super fine powdery coat on my HYT before the patches started and i read on some other site that the white patches could be just where the skin was liquefied and discolored after the parasites damaged that area.

Would it be advisable that i treat for both at the same time? Formalin and copper in the QT tank for a few days then change the water and go into hypo?

[shandy_say]

Sorry for your loss bro! Its really hard to determine which one of the disease has entered our tanks. Nonetheless keeping the tank fallow for the next 6 weeks is your safest best. As for the remaining fishes, a combination of copper, antibacterial meds and maybe furan2 should help.

[LemonLemon]

using quinine and chloroquin in reef tanks are not uncommon. can be done provided proper dosing is done.

ryanuuy, so sorry to hear about your loss. i believe it's a combination of many things.
if you spot a fine powdery sheen, then it's velvet.
the dropping of scales however, is not velvet and brook. it could most likely be bacterial. so is the cloudy eyes.
as for discolouration, flukes could be the cause.

it's the combination of everything probably.

[ryanuuy]

Thanks for all the replies and support! Today my gramma died with the same symptoms. Ill upload pictures later after i get them from my camera.

I believe yesterday i saw my HYT with a fine powdery sheen before the major discoloration started leading me to believe that it is velvet which weakened them and opened the way for bacteria in the tank to attack.

As for the scales falling off, that incident was isolated to the first mitratus butterflyfish. I believe the rest didnt go through that.

I have already removed all my rockwork and caught all my fishes. They are now all in QT with a bit of cupramine and a little formalin to treat for both brook and velvet. Its a 40g QT tank and it has 2 large air pumps and a small overhead filter for flow.

[lhm nole]

Originally Posted by ryanuuy

Thanks for all the replies and support! Today my gramma died with the same symptoms. Ill upload pictures later after i get them from my camera.

I believe yesterday i saw my HYT with a fine powdery sheen before the major discoloration started leading me to believe that it is velvet which weakened them and opened the way for bacteria in the tank to attack.

As for the scales falling off, that incident was isolated to the first mitratus butterflyfish. I believe the rest didnt go through that.

I have already removed all my rockwork and caught all my fishes. They are now all in QT with a bit of cupramine and a little formalin to treat for both brook and velvet. Its a 40g QT tank and it has 2 large air pumps and a small overhead filter for flow.

Dont mix formalin with cupramine deadly combohttp://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html

[ryanuuy]

Uh oh... I just did a 35g water change in a 40g tank. Hopefully that will fix it. Ill wait a few hours for everything to settle then add the cupramine again and then furan 2 for the bacteria.

[LargeAngels]

[QUOTE=ryanuuy;18606615]They are now all in QT with a bit of cupramine and a little formalin to treat for both brook and velvet.[QUOTE]

NOOOOOOO!!!!! DON'T MIX CUPRAMINE AND FORMALIN. It makes the Cupramine 10x more toxic and will kill the fish. Cupramine should not be mixed.

[ryanuuy]

Yes i think i was able to do a big enough water change to stave off the poison or something. I changed 90% of the water in the QT to remove the copper and formalin and after filling it again back to full, i added just cupramine this time.

Just waiting to see what will happen now. So far so good so i have my fingers crossed.

[Gogandantess]

Velvet is horrible. So sorry to see you lose such expensive pets. GL!

[ryanuuy]

Today i checked the QT tank and my mystery wrasse just died. It was one of my healthiest fish and it was still eating even yesterday so now im really confused as to what it could be. He wasn't covered in anything white and im checking his corpse now and i don't notice any discoloration at all.

Please help guys! Im at wits end!

Scales arent falling off and eyes arent cloudy so i hope that means its not bacterial.

He was pretty slimy when i picked him up from the tank though but i dont notice any signs of ich on him or of velvet. The tank already is being treated with copper so that may be why there are no external signs. Perhaps the velvet worked its way inside already and i was too late?

What do you think?