PH issues

hotwire73 · 04/06/2011, 01:13 PM

Ok this tank has been established for over 3.5 years. For some reason my ph keeps dropping back to 7.8 no matter what I do. API even sent me a free bottle of marine max to help. I did a 50 gallon water change, followed by another 50 gallon water change within 5 days of each other 3 weeks back. Well the 2nd change stressed my 9 inch clown trigger out to hard and he died. Rest of the occupants are doing fine. Thing is both water changes I tried to force the ph back up, and of course when you dose with the buffers usually takes it back up to 8.2- 8.4. But always going back to 7.8 within a few hours. Yesterday I did a 100 gallon change, low and behond the water went back to 8.4 for an hour or so. I tested it again after 6 hours and it had dropped all the way back to 7.8. Kinda glad since all the fish looked rough for the first 2 hours. How is this possible, after this last water change. I have yet to understand how my calcium test over 600 and I havent added calcium in over 4 months, like 5 water changes ago. Calcium always test up there and not sure why. Calcium really isnt relavant in a FOWL but just tossing in everything I do know in case it can affect anything. I already bought new api ph test kits just in case mine was old. Same results. Calcium test came from API directly, as well as the marine max buffer so I know they arent old. My new marine ph and alkalinity by seachem is showing 4.5-5 meg/l with is normal between 4-6. From the equation in the pamplet that should be 12.7-14 KH. When comparing to the alkalinity reference I would say my water is closer to the 12.7.

stingythingy45 · 04/06/2011, 01:24 PM

That's some pretty high alk.
Is there any reason that you are chasing the PH around with buffers other than you think the PH should be higher?
Quite frankly I can't even remember the last time I checked PH and could really care less what it is.As long as my alk is within parameters,and the corals look fine........I'm good.
One thing you might want to check is your Magnesium.When this is low it will cause swings in Alk and Calcium.

thegrun · 04/06/2011, 01:26 PM

Your house could be low in oxygen, which will lower your ph. Newer homes are built so air tight that CO2 builds up and lowers your Ph. I've read where some reefers have had to resort to running a duct from outside the house to their tank to provide good air.

stingythingy45 · 04/06/2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

Your house could be low in oxygen, which will lower your ph. Newer homes are built so air tight that CO2 builds up and lowers your Ph. I've read where some reefers have had to resort to running a duct from outside the house to their tank to provide good air.

Very true.
Some folks will run the air hose from the skimmer to the outside air.
But,caution has to be taken if any pesticides ever get used around the house.

hotwire73 · 04/06/2011, 05:12 PM

My oxygen test is showing 5-6 ppm which is really good. Using a red sea lab kit for that one. If you notice in my system stats I use a nearly 6 foot downdraft skimmer which does a wonderfun job of keeping oxygen levels up. As for why I always over my 10 years in this heard keep between 8.2 and 8.4 for ph. Not like their really having any problems but I thought it was good to keep the ph this low..

hotwire73 · 04/06/2011, 07:55 PM

Have thought about running a 50 mg an hour ozone generator into one of the air holes in the top of the skimmer for quite some time, is this to much for around 275-300 gallons? Retested oxygen more on the 5 ppm.

Michael · 04/07/2011, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingythingy45

That's some pretty high alk.
Is there any reason that you are chasing the PH around with buffers other than you think the PH should be higher?
Quite frankly I can't even remember the last time I checked PH and could really care less what it is.As long as my alk is within parameters,and the corals look fine........I'm good.
One thing you might want to check is your Magnesium.When this is low it will cause swings in Alk and Calcium.

+1, I agree with bob about this, and in anycase to add to it, 7.8 IMO is fine if stable, mine is around that and I don't have any issues.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 04/07/2011, 06:26 AM

Your house could be low in oxygen, which will lower your ph.

FWIW, it is not low O2 that imapcts pH, but high CO2. Those are not necessarily correlated.

Low pH is always due to high CO2 in the tank (assuming alkalinity is normal or higher), and often that is because of elevated CO2 in the home air.

This has more:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

and

The "How To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 3: pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

04/06/2011, 01:13 PM	#1
hotwire73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 233	PH issues Ok this tank has been established for over 3.5 years. For some reason my ph keeps dropping back to 7.8 no matter what I do. API even sent me a free bottle of marine max to help. I did a 50 gallon water change, followed by another 50 gallon water change within 5 days of each other 3 weeks back. Well the 2nd change stressed my 9 inch clown trigger out to hard and he died. Rest of the occupants are doing fine. Thing is both water changes I tried to force the ph back up, and of course when you dose with the buffers usually takes it back up to 8.2- 8.4. But always going back to 7.8 within a few hours. Yesterday I did a 100 gallon change, low and behond the water went back to 8.4 for an hour or so. I tested it again after 6 hours and it had dropped all the way back to 7.8. Kinda glad since all the fish looked rough for the first 2 hours. How is this possible, after this last water change. I have yet to understand how my calcium test over 600 and I havent added calcium in over 4 months, like 5 water changes ago. Calcium always test up there and not sure why. Calcium really isnt relavant in a FOWL but just tossing in everything I do know in case it can affect anything. I already bought new api ph test kits just in case mine was old. Same results. Calcium test came from API directly, as well as the marine max buffer so I know they arent old. My new marine ph and alkalinity by seachem is showing 4.5-5 meg/l with is normal between 4-6. From the equation in the pamplet that should be 12.7-14 KH. When comparing to the alkalinity reference I would say my water is closer to the 12.7. __________________ For in Gods eyes we are but a mere drop in time. Current Tank Info: 240 FOWLR, 55 sump, Pondmaster HY-Drive 6000 pump, Protein skimmer ETS ETSS1000, 430 pds lr, 120 pds ls, 400 watt MH 20k, 36 watt twist coralife uv

04/06/2011, 01:24 PM	#2
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	That's some pretty high alk. Is there any reason that you are chasing the PH around with buffers other than you think the PH should be higher? Quite frankly I can't even remember the last time I checked PH and could really care less what it is.As long as my alk is within parameters,and the corals look fine........I'm good. One thing you might want to check is your Magnesium.When this is low it will cause swings in Alk and Calcium. __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

04/06/2011, 05:12 PM	#5
hotwire73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 233	My oxygen test is showing 5-6 ppm which is really good. Using a red sea lab kit for that one. If you notice in my system stats I use a nearly 6 foot downdraft skimmer which does a wonderfun job of keeping oxygen levels up. As for why I always over my 10 years in this heard keep between 8.2 and 8.4 for ph. Not like their really having any problems but I thought it was good to keep the ph this low.. __________________ For in Gods eyes we are but a mere drop in time. Current Tank Info: 240 FOWLR, 55 sump, Pondmaster HY-Drive 6000 pump, Protein skimmer ETS ETSS1000, 430 pds lr, 120 pds ls, 400 watt MH 20k, 36 watt twist coralife uv

04/06/2011, 07:55 PM	#6
hotwire73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 233	Have thought about running a 50 mg an hour ozone generator into one of the air holes in the top of the skimmer for quite some time, is this to much for around 275-300 gallons? Retested oxygen more on the 5 ppm. __________________ For in Gods eyes we are but a mere drop in time. Current Tank Info: 240 FOWLR, 55 sump, Pondmaster HY-Drive 6000 pump, Protein skimmer ETS ETSS1000, 430 pds lr, 120 pds ls, 400 watt MH 20k, 36 watt twist coralife uv

04/07/2011, 06:26 AM	#8
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Your house could be low in oxygen, which will lower your ph. FWIW, it is not low O2 that imapcts pH, but high CO2. Those are not necessarily correlated. Low pH is always due to high CO2 in the tank (assuming alkalinity is normal or higher), and often that is because of elevated CO2 in the home air. This has more: Low pH: Causes and Cures http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm and The "How To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 3: pH http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

04/06/2011, 01:26 PM	#3
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Your house could be low in oxygen, which will lower your ph. Newer homes are built so air tight that CO2 builds up and lowers your Ph. I've read where some reefers have had to resort to running a duct from outside the house to their tank to provide good air.

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