Qt

[puffer21]

So I know that a lot of people are not going to agree with this, but I’m ok with that. Everyone on here is always talking about how you need to QT fish. Now I am not saying that this is not a good idea and that you shouldn’t QT. What I doing is giving my experience, and the experiences I have working at a LFS.

What I can tell you is that most of my customers don’t QT; they don’t want to spend the money, don’t have the room, don’t believe in it, they try to do the QT but the fish ends up dying because they don’t do the water changes the small QT tank needs.

Working at a LFS I can tell you how many horror stories I have heard about peoples tanks and there fish dying. The first thing I do when someone has a fish die is go over there tank. What size is it, what is in it, equipment, test results, and so on. This is how I figure out what caused the fish’s death or why all of a sudden all their fish have ich.

99% of the time I notice that when people’s fish die there is an issue with the tank. Wether they do a water change with ice cold water, they haven’t done a water changes for the last year, there nitrates are off my chart, I get the “your supposed to feed them everyday”, “you don’t just give them three of those frozen cubes for a 20 gallon tank”,” you don’t just add 10 fish at once”, “ya I got that salt from market basket”. There isn’t any times I can remember someone getting an ich outbreak when there wasn’t something wrong with their tank. (what I do hear is that many people will get ich on a fish they have just added and then it goes away)
What I can tell you is that when you have a healthy tank typically you will be fine (not always, but typically)

If you cant QT, don’t want to whatever your reason at least flow some of the steps below.
•The fish breathing heavily at the bottom of the LFS is dying, unless you are going to hospitalize him, he doesn’t need your saving
•The fish that isn’t swimming right, don’t buy him
•When someone at the LFS says that the fish just came in and were taking deposits, we are trying to tell you to wait to buy him because we just acclimated him 10 minutes ago
•When someone at the LFS says the fish is sick, don’t be like I will get it anyway
•Feed good foods, I always also supplement my foods with garlic, vitachem and selcon. You get vitamins why shouldn’t our fish.

Once again I am not saying that you shouldn’t QT. From my experience if you are having a healthy tank then you typically wont have a problem.

One other thing that I wanted to add is I am taking about QT’s not hospital tanks. Many times with tangs the tang will develop ich when placed into the aquarium, when the tank is healthy typically other fish will not be affected. The ich will last a few days and go away. On rare cases when the person bought the tang the day after we put it into our system then was put into a tank with some larger slightly aggressive fish, the tang will develop ich and stop eating. In this cause the fish should be hospitalized, he was to stressed from other factors to build up their immune systems, even in a healthy tank. Many people with healthy tanks will add a fish that happens to be a terror in there tank. I know someone who added an small algae blenny that terriored a power blue tang. The fish ended up inside a rock and had to be removed and had scratches and look terrible. In this cause even in a health tank the fish needs to be hospitalized.

I hope this helped

[puffer21]

I guess no one agreed

[Uncle Salty 05]

I do.
I haven't quarantined or lost a fish in years. If you make wise choices,inspect your fish closely before buying them and have correct rock solid water parameters QT in most cases does more harm than good IMO.

[blue736]

Why not QT in the LFS? Boy that sure would solve many issues. While providing a great service to those who buy.

[pimp4cheddar]

Originally Posted by blue736

Why not QT in the LFS? Boy that sure would solve many issues. While providing a great service to those who buy.

+1

I don't own a QT tank...and probably never will.

I make sure the fish I'm buying is a-okay. I then pay for him and keep him at the LFS for a few days to make sure it's eating properly...

[Uncle Salty 05]

Originally Posted by blue736

Why not QT in the LFS? Boy that sure would solve many issues. While providing a great service to those who buy.

That's pretty much what I do.
If I see a keeper at a LFS I will put down a deposit and come back in a few days, if the fish is still eating and looking healthy then I will buy it.

[puffer21]

Its hard for a store to do a QT system, because if we have tanks then we add a fish we start the whole qt process over. We would have to have 50 small tanks all sperated. It would be very difficult. And yes most of the time i notice QT does more harm than good

[Uncle Salty 05]

I know some LFSs down here have seperate systems for their fish and corals so that fish can be kept at lower salinity with copper.

[puffer21]

We do have seperate systems. One has coral and the other is a fish system. which if there are issues we can add coper or lower SG

[Paul B]

I guess no one agreed

I agreed with your entire post

[steelhead77]

Thank you for stating so eloquently what I have been saying on this site for the better part of two years now. I agree 100% with everything you wrote.

[puffer21]

Everyone is just so into QT, and I a just cant fully believe in it. However, i do believe in a hospilization tank. I feel like most of my customers who do a QT end up killing the fish. I even notice on here that someone will say they have a fish with ick and everyone wants them to setup a QT stressing the fish more. Why dont we first figure out why the fish has ick. Ick comes up when fish are stressed, we should be figuring out what is causing it and fix the problem and the fish should be able to recover.

[isawill]

I don't disagree, but what would you recommend for people who do not have a LFS and have to order online?
The closest place that even has salt water is 2 1/2hrs away, and it's Petco so it doesn't count...
I order from Diver's Den when possible, because they quarantine and make sure the fish eats before they ship it, however they don't have all the kinds of fish that I want...I just ordered a firefish last week from their LA store (not QT, etc...) and thought I'd put it in a QT just to be safe...fish did great for 3 days, ate, swam around as expected, and then this am...dead...did not show any signs of illness though...I am just wondering if the lack of "establishedness" of the QT (even though water tested clean) did him in??
Might he have been better off straight into the DT??
Thoughts?

[Uncle Salty 05]

If your tank is well established and there are no aggressive fish in the tank to bully the new edition then yes, it is my belief his chances would have been much better in your DT.

[puffer21]

It is definitely hard if you don’t have a lfs close by. You noticed all my “make sure you do this when buying a fish” you can’t do online. I would say it depends on what your tank is, and what fish it is. But to me this is a really hard question. I am able to look at fish and tell you if it is healthy, which is why I don’t order online. Shipping the fish is way more stressful than buying at a LFS so the fish will have high stress lowering their immune systems. So if it is a tang, I might hospitalize it not QT for the 4-8 weeks thing. I would put him in a hospital tank and see how he is doing. While if you’re ordering a clownfish for a 20 gallon tank than I would just put him in your display tank, since if he does get sick you are easly able to catch him and hospilize him. Honestly though if you don’t feel you can handle taking care of a QT fish, then I would just put him in your tank.
That’s the thing with the QT, its hard to keep. We have live rock, skimmers, and other things to keep our display tanks clean. A QT tank pretty much has nothing. And on top of that our Display tanks are made to mimic the reef, were the fish used to live. A QT tank is open and bare. If I used to live on a reef and then thrown into this box with pv pipe I would have a panic attack and die.

I don’t know anything about your tank or how your QT was setup so I don’t like to tell you that is why your fish died. However, I wouldn’t doubt it that the QT could have killed the fish.

(wrote during my college class, hope this makes since)

[pmrossetti]

I'm glad for this thread. more debate on this issue is needed. i always felt sorry for a fish being 6 weeks in a small, barren tank with fluctuating parameters of ammonia, etc.
More input on this,please.

[Lynnmw1208]

you make some very good points here, but shame on you for not paying attention in class jk. I have a QT tank and it's sitting empty in my basement because I just don't feel like setting it up. this is also a good reason why I only have one fish in my DT. I was planning on QTing everything that I bought, but to be honest with you, I wish I didn't have to. If I can't even bring myself to go down in the basement to set this thing up, then how am I going to keep up the water quality in it? Then again I have seen my friend get fish and they were all doing great (didn't QT) and then bought one fish and boom, killed the whole tank. It's a risk you take I guess, but I'd hate to see this happen!

[Paul B]

More input on this,please.

I have found that fish in breeding condition do not get ich. OK never, although I really don't like saying that. Wait, I will change that to "I" personally have never had a fish in breeding condidion with ich. (Don't send me hate mail, I changed it) That is better. To get fish in that condition they need to be relatively stress free and be fed what they are supposed to eat. That is not necessarilly a varied diet, but what "that" fish is supposed to eat.
I have also found that a diet high in fish oils will greatly help get fish into that condition. I feed every day live black worms and pellets soaked in fish oil. Along with other fresh and frozen things)
'Many of my fish are spawning, they generally live forever or until I kill them in a stupid accident other wise they can live 15+ years as some of mine are.
I have not had a fish die from disease in probably 20 or 25 years (I don't remember the last fish I had that died from a disease). Generally they die by being chased and jumping out. Unfortunately, spawning fish are feisty and don't tolerate other fish near their nesting areas. I also know ich is in my tank as I use some NSW and add mud, algae, fish and inverts from the sea all the time. I also don't quarantine but if I were to set up a new tank I would probably have to for a year or so. New tanks are generally not very healthy.
Just my opinion and only mine from "my" experience. No one elses.

[puffer21]

From my experience people that buy healthy fish, which is a hard thing to tell when you are new, it takes years to learn. You have a HEALTHY tank and STABLE tank, then you probably wont have an issue. I really cant remember the last time someone came to me and they had a perfect tank and something died (exept the person who had the 15 year old fish, but I said that was old age)

[Uncle Salty 05]

I agree 100% with Paul B's last post.
In my book a tank is new if it is under 1 year old. Any tank that young should not house expensive inhabitants.

[puffer21]

Yes that is why my last post as well said healthy and stable. A new tank is not stable

[pmrossetti]

what about buying, say, from a place like live aquaria, where the fish have already been qt. qt again, anyway?

[puffer21]

Buying from live aquaria, I dont know how they QT, but read the post above for my recommedation on that

[blue736]

problem with new reefers, they aren't experienced enough to have a healthy tank. also setting up & maintaining a QT is tricky at first. you really don't know the process until you have done it.

I QT'd all my fishes. one of them had a real bad case of ick and a bacterial infection. think I had him in QT for 4 months total. he is happy now in my reef tank. two clowns I QT'd for a friend both had ick on day two. I have 3 dedicated QT, all 10g. right now none are setup, no fish to add now. but have them clean and in storage ready to setup when required.

some LFS have ick in their systems & passes onto all new fish they get in. ick can wipe out all your fish in the DT (one - many). then live in your substrate/rock to restart the process each time you add new fish (QT'd or not).

so the point is: you can do no QT and never have a real ick/disease issue. or you can and kill hundreds of dollars worth of livestock. you can QT, and stress/kill your fish too if you don't know how to properly (I did once). this is russian roulette. you have to weigh your options, and do what works for you.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by blue736

problem with new reefers, they aren't experienced enough to have a healthy tank. also setting up & maintaining a QT is tricky at first. you really don't know the process until you have done it.

I QT'd all my fishes. one of them had a real bad case of ick and a bacterial infection. think I had him in QT for 4 months total. he is happy now in my reef tank. two clowns I QT'd for a friend both had ick on day two. I have 3 dedicated QT, all 10g. right now none are setup, no fish to add now. but have them clean and in storage ready to setup when required.

some LFS have ick in their systems & passes onto all new fish they get in. ick can wipe out all your fish in the DT (one - many). then live in your substrate/rock to restart the process each time you add new fish (QT'd or not).

so the point is: you can do no QT and never have a real ick/disease issue. or you can and kill hundreds of dollars worth of livestock. you can QT, and stress/kill your fish too if you don't know how to properly (I did once). this is russian roulette. you have to weigh your options, and do what works for you.

What you don't know and can't prove is that if you had just put the infected fish in the DT he very well could have done just as well as in your QT. Ich is not generally a killer. Other factors can play a much more important role in whether a fish survives a bout with ich: Water quality, stress, how it was captured etc.

Lately there have been a lot of threads where someone will place a fish in qt and then kill it by medicating wrongly - even when no signs of ich were present. Other post where people will qt a fish for 6 weeks, drop it in their dt and BAM! it gets ich.

A qt needs to be done properly and can be much more tempermental in terms of water quality than a dt. I think it is unreasonable to expect a newbie to be able to set-up and maintain two (or three) separate systems when it's all they can do to keep one tank stable. If you have the where-with-all to do this, then more power to you.