Quarantine failures: how to get the skills

[Sk8r]

Scared to quarantine? Heard that people lose fish?
They lose them for a very few reasons.
1. the fish was (doh!) sick. Thank your lucky stars this happened in qt and NOT in your display tank.
2. the fish was not only sick, it was collected with cyanide: yes, this foul practice does exist in fly-by-night operations: the fish dies in a matter of weeks, in a hard-to-diagnose way, and nothing can save it.
3. the qt wasn't set up to provide enough oxygen and to get rid of ammonia---serious issue when you take a fish that was bought for a larger tank and put it into a much smaller environment. Let me dispell a few myths fast:
a) a handful of species (angels, mandys) require a cycled qt with rock and sand. Mandys additionally require a large supply of cheato (with pods: they eat the pods, not the cheato.)
b) everybody else is perfectly fine in a bare glass box. Hiding places: big pvc elbow.
c) a trickle filter sold with smaller tanks CANNOT sustain a larger fish. Minnows is all that sort can manage. You need auxilary aeration, you need a potent pump for gas exchange, and you need to keep changing that floss daily. Pillow stuffing (fabric store) works fine. You may also need (especially for tangs) a [protected!] aeration: do not let a fish play in microbubbles: if they start sucking them in it can cause problems. Use a bit of plastic grid to prevent the fish getting to the aeration.
d) you should have an ammonia badge on that tank and check it often. If you spot any, do a 30% water change, and never get caught without enough water and salt to do this at any hour.
e) if you spot anything that may possibly need treatment, make a beeline for the fish disease forum, and google pictures of Fish Disease Marine on the internet until you can make a pretty good match. Read all the Fish Disease forum stickies, and if you are unsure, ASK before you treat. Un-treating a tank is a major mess, if you've picked the wrong thing. Some fish, for instance, don't react well to copper (angels, mandys) and there are diseases that look alike: ich and lymphocystis (and grains of white sand stuck in a slime coat); uronema and velvet; etc, etc.
f) do not break quarantine "because it's been two weeks and nothing's happened." Some things tend to break out about the second week. Others can take longer. That's WHY we recommend a 4 week quarantine.
g) do not treat a well fish: some treatments are hard on the fish's liver; sometimes the fish proves to have something needing a completely different treatment than what you just did. Etc. Some meds (copper) depress appetite seriously, and one of your jobs is to get that fish eating well and used to the bangs and thumps in your house. You are also providing him the chance to eat without being bullied by Spike the Giant Tang or chased by Fang the Damsel. Remember this fish hasn't eaten for a week or more, when you get him; he's been airlifted from a holding pen, across an ocean, dumped in a tank at the distributor/dealer's, rebagged, shipped again by plane, trucked, left on your porch, and you think he should be grateful to be dumped in with Spike and Fang? No. Give him the 4 weeks at the spa, being individually fed until his nerves settle.

[MICHAEL128]

Sk8r,

I'm new to the hobby. I've read all the great info you posted, and I thank you for helping so many of us.

One point concerns me. In your discussions about quarantining and preventing Ich in the display tank (DT), you mentioned that inverts don't need to be quarantined for 4 to 6 weeks like new fish. You did mention that corals should be dipped before they are placed into the DT, and, of course, inverts other than corals can't be dipped.

My thinking goes like this: Ich (and all parasites) have been perfecting what they do - SURVIVING - for a long, long time. Ich is darn good at what it does. If Ich (tomont phase, which can last 3 to 28 days) can attach to a piece of coral, sand, rock, glass, fish, or a sponge filter, then why can't it also attach to an invert (shrimp, snails, hermits, etc.) BEFORE we put that invert into a DT that contains fish?

What if a supplier that ships us our inverts has stored the inverts with fish that have Ich?

I don't know of any scientific data that demonstrate that Ich cannot or does not attach to inverts (shrimp, snails, hermits, etc).

You have helped many, many of us in so many different ways, and I respect you, your knowledge and experience without hesitation. I respectfully ask why you don't recommend quarantining inverts for 4 to 6 weeks, just like we would quarantine a new fish?

[Mouse]

Where it may be possible for Ich to attach (or fall onto, get stuck on) Inverts or corals, they are not the parasites food source and they will vacate in search of food.
I do believe however that a healthy fish can have Ich but in such an amount that it isn't noticed unless a fish in the tank has health issues

[100%hydrophylic]

I guess i bought into a reefing myth, but i have heard quite a bit that you shouldnt quarantine mandarins? i heard they have a very strong immunity, and wont do well in a qt because of their feeding requirements

[gweston]

mandarins can get ich. They may possibly be more resistant to it than some fish, but it could still be a carrier and not show outward signs of infection. The ideal mandarin is one that is already trained to eat frozen/flake/pellet ahead of time. Then a QT isn't a problem.

I'm curious what methods others use to QT mandarins that aren't trained. I guess one could keep a supply of live pods on hand and feed the QT. Either buy pods, or supply ones from a well stocked refugium. Not easy.

[Sk8r]

I'm trying to advise somebody in the Fish Disease forum whose mandy PROBABLY has it or lymphocystis, and while it is as rare as upward-falling raindrops---sometimes it happens. And it's a very bad situation, because anything that will kill the parasite will also kill them---or the pods they eat. This is why I also nag people to get an alkalinity test and use it often: if alk goes off, then slime coats can get iffy, and that's your fish's protection against various things. My advice to him is to treat with hypo and try to rig a mandy-feeder: a clear tube in a corner into which you drip pod-laden full-salinity water, and from which hopefully the mandy will eat, because it can see its prey. You need a refractometer, and a decent topoff setup, and you need to be testing that salinity twice daily to keep it in the zone---and you have to do this for 4 weeks AFTER you have seen the last of the pest. The dosing of Stress Coat (ups slime production) can also help.

This is the kind of grief you get into without a qt. THough I have kept mandys for 20 years and have never ever had one bring in ich: this is the one species on which I will say---skip qt on this fish, but be hyper-careful of your source, and get this fish fairly early so if you have a problem, you will bring it to as few fish as possible.

Catch-22: this fish relies on a large supply of pods from live rock and cheato moss. You can set up a mandy qt but it must essentially be a fuge, but not connected to your main system. Or at least not connected while you are using it for a qt. And if you have to treat---it's a real, real dicey situation. You can read that thread over in that forum to see what a mess it is.

[gweston]

Sk8r always has great info. Much thanks.