Flying Dutch 700 gallon in wall tank-living room/home office divider - Build Thread

[Euler Kernighan]

Hello Fellows,

First and foremost I'd like to say ReefCentral rocks! This is one of the best sites in the whole world!!!

Let me introduce myself, my name is Euler, I'm a marine aquarium lover who lives down here in Brazil and would like to share my new project with you guys and of course, share some knowledge and receive from all of you.

Before we get started, I have to say that I'm not expert and really counting on you guys, my last tank was a 180g FOWLR, that was about five years ago - In the last four or five years I was away from the hobby, hanging around here and there doing some stuff, got married , getting myself in troubles , you know, the same fu.king old thing.

Ok, some months ago I decide to come back, started to think in a new project - something to "connect" my living room/dinner room to my home office, we're talking about a in-wall project - a large brand new tank in wall - hope my wife enjoy!!!

Project Specifications:

About the DT's sizing, my options are:
- option 1: 350g - 98 in long x 32 in width x 26 height OR 8.2 ft x 2.7 ft x 2.2 ft OR 2,50m x 0,82m x 0,65m
- option 2: 395g - 110 in long - same as the others dimensions
- option 3: 420g - 118 in long - same as the others dimensions

The DT will be eurobraced in glass, the reason to it is that is very very very hard to find any tank in acrylic here in Brazil, actually is hard to find some large tanks over here... anyway as I'm going to glass, the front and back sides will be starfire - expesive but worth!

This tank is planned to be a nice, neat and tidy place for fishes, softs and LPS corals on first year or year and a half, after that the plan is move to SPS.. hahhahaha

System support:

I'll count on 200g sump + 75g frag tank + 75g quarentine tank. Let's discuss this point later!!!

Assuming the first scenario, the total will be 350 + 200 + 75 + 75 = 700g

Illumination:

All T5.

Why? Waiting for LED consolidation and costs falling. I might use LEDs on frag tank, but really don't know it's a possibility.


Stand:

Don't know yet - trying to decide between wood and steel - probably in steel - made by myself

Hood:

Basically made the same way as the stand with an open top.


Display Water Circulation:

That's is a good topic!!! I've made some researches and not decide yet - I really like close loop systems but it is seems there are a lot of options over there with powerheads...


System Water:

I'm thinking to use natural salt water on startup/cycling and RO/DI after that - pros/cons??? Sugestions?

Chemical Support:
One extra large Biopellet Reactor
One extra large Carbon Reactor

Dosing Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium with dosing pump and some additives manually.

That's it guys, please let me know what you're thinking about this thread - suggestions/critics are very welcome!

Stay tunned for help and pics!!!

ps: As you may have noticed my english is very poor, thanks for your patience!

[James404]

Sounds like a great plan so far Euler. We have been seeing a lot of beautiful tanks coming from Brazil lately. Will be tagging along.

[d3hree]

as above, sounds great. Your English is superb IMO.

I lean towards Closed loops for water flow and I think an inwall divider tank is the perfect scenario for closed loop.

Best of luck with it, looking forward to watching this one develop

[Euler Kernighan]

Originally Posted by James404

Sounds like a great plan so far Euler. We have been seeing a lot of beautiful tanks coming from Brazil lately. Will be tagging along.

Hey James,

Thanks for tagged, let's make this project together!

Unfortunatelly marine tanks aren't so common over here. I guess it's because the upfront and running costs are high and in addition, there is a small supply of locally produced products and they are not efficient, believe me... anyway, the day will come when everyone will have a tank at home, at least one cube!!!

Let's roll!!!

[Euler Kernighan]

Originally Posted by d3hree

as above, sounds great. Your English is superb IMO.

I lean towards Closed loops for water flow and I think an inwall divider tank is the perfect scenario for closed loop.

Best of luck with it, looking forward to watching this one develop

Hello Matt,

Thanks, I'm fake english learner - never got a class, just self study, movies, tv series and trips to america . How amazing is your thread - Matt's 5000ltr Display. Are you in UK, aren't you? thought you guys use imperial unit instead metric system, am I wrong??? down here we use the metric one, so it's hard to think in gallon, inches, foot, miles, onces, ponds, etc... hauhauhauhau...

Anyway, closed loops are good choice for water circulation, but I'm little bit concerned about noise and heat on stand... I'm trying to figure out if it becomes a issue how can I resolve it. I'm considering to use a AC on home-office side - I think it can fall the tank's internal and external temperature - any shot?

Thanks again and let's keep going! Wait for me on your thread I have some questions about CL and the software you're using to draw that beatiful images!

[Euler Kernighan]

Guys,

Just started to play with google sketch up, so here's the plan:

This is the living room / dinning room side:



Home-office side / fish room:



I'll try to improve my skill on sketch up - wait for for more!

[Euler Kernighan]

Hi guys!

That's the new sketchs!

Initial tank design:: yep! I'm going to use dual overflow with Silent and Failsafe Overflow System durso style, but I really like some sugestions here, is it possible keep it really silent using dual overflow?



Overflow design:

[Euler Kernighan]

Bottom Design: I know that will be a PITA drill all these holes...



The type A:
- porpuse: outlet from closed loop
- total: 08
- size: for use with 3/4" bulkheads - I guess the OD size is 1 1/2", right?

type B:
- porpuse: inlet to closed loop
- total: 02
- size: for use with 2" bulkheads - OD size is 3", right?

Definitively I go with two Oceans Motions 4-way, I know that's possible to use just one OM 8-way, but if you keep in mind "contingency", your operational continuity plan must include some "backup" items, I mean duplicate some equipments can increase your upfront and running costs but it worth, righ?

I don't know what pumps I'll use in CLs, that's what I'm thinking:

• Reeflo Super Dart Gold (i just got a dart back in '04, hell yeah, that's fun.king pump)
• Iwaki MD-100RLT
• PanWorld 250PS-MD100R
• Velocity Titanium Pump T4

I'm considering:

• final product (maintenance and robustness);
• noise;
• heat transfer;
• power consumption;
• company's support;
• spare parts.

Any considerations on these pumps and any other will be very very very WELCOME!

[James404]

Great job on the sketchup Euler, way better than I can do LOL.

[MedRed]

Holy Cow... This is a grand undertaking!

[d3hree]

Hi Euler

Hello Matt,

Thanks, I'm fake english learner - never got a class, just self study, movies, tv series and trips to america . How amazing is your thread - Matt's 5000ltr Display. Are you in UK, aren't you? thought you guys use imperial unit instead metric system, am I wrong??? down here we use the metric one, so it's hard to think in gallon, inches, foot, miles, onces, ponds, etc... hauhauhauhau...

We use litres really and millimeters and cm. I have altered some of what I usually use for this forum, the only issue I have is that a US gallon is smaller than a UK gallon!

If it was my tank I think I would want to reduce all those holes in the base of the tank. With your tank going "in wall" you have the perfect opportunity to hide the CL intakes and returns without drilling any holes in the base.

Also please consider the scenario. The drains of the CL will come out of the base and go to a ball valve before the pump. You will be able to close the ball valve to service the pump or change it. Now what happens if the ball valve sticks? ( it can happen) ...or starts to leak? With the drains in the base it will mean that if the worst case scenario happens you cant ever change the pump or service the pump without the whole tank draining down!

Also consider the CL feeds. How about having those protected by the weir also?...again for the same reasons. we all design our perfect tanks, We spend hours and hours considering the flow and lighting but then we put all of our faith in cheap plastic valves and bulkheads. If the feeds for the CL are positioned halfway up the tank or in the base and the plastic valves fail then potentially the tank will drain down to that level.

As far as pumps are concerned have you looked at the laguna range? very cheap to buy and a 16000lph pump will only consume 160watts. i have spent a year or so looking into various pumps and they cant be beaten IMO. Start up cost vs amount of flow vs wattage used they are awesome and are pretty popular here in the uk, they are near silent too.

If I get chance I will knock up a quick drawing of how you can have the CL without relying on the ball valves etc and without any holes in your tank.

Hope that helps.

[Mothercolony]

Euler,

Nice plans. I was very nervous setting up my mini monster, I thought with this much water I never want my tank to leak. I don't have any added holes besides the overflow drain 1.5" and the 2 return lines. I would keep it real simple, only drill where absolutely necessary. I think the new Tunzes move water nicely. CL is cool but kinda old schooler to move the water needed power heads will do a better job. IME, tagging along best of luck.

[hugo209]

ill be tagging along.. sounds like its going to be a great build!!

[d3hree]

Hi Euler

This is what i was trying to explain, the cl feeds are protected by the weir and any failure wont drain the tank like they would with holes drilled in the base or sides. The returns come up and over the tank and can be directed anywhere from there.



If you look at this image below of David Saxby's tank you can see the large weir on the right directs water to the sump. The small black weir protects the cl feeds. You can also see his returns coming up and over the back of the tank. David added a false back wall to this area and built rock work up over it. You wouldnt have to do this as your in wall style would hide the pipe work in the corners.



Just giving you another option, hope it helps.

[dahenley]

Originally Posted by d3hree

Hi Euler

This is what i was trying to explain, the cl feeds are protected by the weir and any failure wont drain the tank like they would with holes drilled in the base or sides. The returns come up and over the tank and can be directed anywhere from there.

i would not put the intakes of the CL pumps in your overflow.
if you do, when power shuts off, and the oveflow drains to the sump, it will create a siphon on the output of the pumps and drain the tank even with the overflow.... which means that the whole tank will drain to the sump creating a mess and dry tank....

If you look at the picture of the David Saxby tank, the intakes for the closed loops are the two outside pipes with holes drilled for suction. the three middle pipes are the rerun lines that propel water to the desired areas.

[redneckgearhead]

One good way I have found to solve some of the issues with ball valves not closing is using bulkheads that have threads on the inside. This way If for some reason I can not get the valve to close I can simply screw in a plug on the tank side and I lose a small amount of water this way, instead of draining the entire tank. I understand that this is of little help in the event of a plumbing failure but it is something to consider.

[d3hree]

i would not put the intakes of the CL pumps in your overflow.
if you do, when power shuts off, and the oveflow drains to the sump, it will create a siphon on the output of the pumps and drain the tank even with the overflow.... which means that the whole tank will drain to the sump creating a mess and dry tank....

I very good point well made ( whoops) ..forget my idea. You could adopt Saxbys plan and have the strainers up and over the side too.

[Euler Kernighan]

Hey Matt,

Thanks for help me with these considerations - you're help me a lot in decide the better way to do this CL. Design a tank with a "good" circulation always is a hassle.

Originally Posted by d3hree

Hi Euler

If it was my tank I think I would want to reduce all those holes in the base of the tank. With your tank going "in wall" you have the perfect opportunity to hide the CL intakes and returns without drilling any holes in the base.

That's a good point - let me think about that...

Originally Posted by d3hree

Also please consider the scenario. The drains of the CL will come out of the base and go to a ball valve before the pump. You will be able to close the ball valve to service the pump or change it. Now what happens if the ball valve sticks? ( it can happen) ...or starts to leak? With the drains in the base it will mean that if the worst case scenario happens you cant ever change the pump or service the pump without the whole tank draining down!

if it happens I'll suffer a major heart attack or stroke, believe me!

Originally Posted by d3hree

Also consider the CL feeds. How about having those protected by the weir also?...again for the same reasons. we all design our perfect tanks, We spend hours and hours considering the flow and lighting but then we put all of our faith in cheap plastic valves and bulkheads. If the feeds for the CL are positioned halfway up the tank or in the base and the plastic valves fail then potentially the tank will drain down to that level.

positioned them halfway up seems like a 'solution'...

Originally Posted by d3hree

As far as pumps are concerned have you looked at the laguna range? very cheap to buy and a 16000lph pump will only consume 160watts. i have spent a year or so looking into various pumps and they cant be beaten IMO. Start up cost vs amount of flow vs wattage used they are awesome and are pretty popular here in the uk, they are near silent too.

I looked for laguna down here in BR, but don't find any guys with these pumps... just google it and found a lot of good reviews! it looks like a hamburger, uh? huahauhauha

Originally Posted by d3hree

If I get chance I will knock up a quick drawing of how you can have the CL without relying on the ball valves etc and without any holes in your tank.

Hope that helps.

help a lot, please keep feeding me!!! hauhauhaah

[Euler Kernighan]

Hi MC!

Originally Posted by Mothercolony

Euler,

Nice plans. I was very nervous setting up my mini monster, I thought with this much water I never want my tank to leak. I don't have any added holes besides the overflow drain 1.5" and the 2 return lines. I would keep it real simple, only drill where absolutely necessary.

It´s very very hard decide what is "absolutely necessary" huahuahau just kidding...

do you have any pics? looked for your thread but didn't found it.

Originally Posted by Mothercolony

I think the new Tunzes move water nicely. CL is cool but kinda old schooler to move the water needed power heads will do a better job. IME, tagging along best of luck.

Tunzes? are we talking about 6105, 6205 and 6305 family? I've read some reviews and seems there is some heating transfer, right? What are you using for return/circulation?

[Euler Kernighan]

Originally Posted by hugo209

ill be tagging along.. sounds like its going to be a great build!!

Thanks! Let's roll! I'll update some pics today later!

[Euler Kernighan]

Matt,

I'm speakless - you're very very skillful on 3D illustrations... what do you think about a freela job? I'm hiring a guy to drawing all my tanks!!! kidding!!! huahuahauhaau

I tried to highlight some points on your design - my main concern is about the pump head loss and i'm trying to figure out how to 'adapt' oceans motions on this setup. As I'm going to use two OM-4way there'll be four outlet pipes on each corner - how to 'hide' that and how to hide two inlets?

Unfortunately I don't have room on sides... just have about 10 inches on each side and I'm going to use it for overflow boxes... I may reduce the boxes's width so I can use your suggestions... let me sketch it!

Originally Posted by d3hree

If you look at this image below of David Saxby's tank you can see the large weir on the right directs water to the sump. The small black weir protects the cl feeds. You can also see his returns coming up and over the back of the tank. David added a false back wall to this area and built rock work up over it. You wouldnt have to do this as your in wall style would hide the pipe work in the corners.

Just giving you another option, hope it helps.

About Saxby's tank, for goodness sake, I'm not questioning the design, but it seems there is a lot of pumps to run this setup, right?

Again, with all these 45, 90 elbows there's a lot of head loss, I guess.

[Euler Kernighan]

Originally Posted by dahenley

i would not put the intakes of the CL pumps in your overflow.
if you do, when power shuts off, and the oveflow drains to the sump, it will create a siphon on the output of the pumps and drain the tank even with the overflow.... which means that the whole tank will drain to the sump creating a mess and dry tank....

If you look at the picture of the David Saxby tank, the intakes for the closed loops are the two outside pipes with holes drilled for suction. the three middle pipes are the rerun lines that propel water to the desired areas.

Thanks Dahenley for your consideration here - I owe you a beer!! have you been at billy bob's?

Please keep helping us!!! Any suggestion about CLs?

[Euler Kernighan]

Originally Posted by redneckgearhead

One good way I have found to solve some of the issues with ball valves not closing is using bulkheads that have threads on the inside. This way If for some reason I can not get the valve to close I can simply screw in a plug on the tank side and I lose a small amount of water this way, instead of draining the entire tank. I understand that this is of little help in the event of a plumbing failure but it is something to consider.

Good work around redneck!!!

[d3hree]

About Saxby's tank, for goodness sake, I'm not questioning the design, but it seems there is a lot of pumps to run this setup, right?

Again, with all these 45, 90 elbows there's a lot of head loss, I guess.

If I remeber correctly I think Saxby has about 6x turnover in flow on his tank, the Deltec HLP pumps dont put out a great deal Its as much about intelligent flow as it is amount of flow. He has them switching on and off in 3 second intervals which is pretty effective.

The elbows, whilst adding frictional resistance, do allow for the whole tank to be serviced without any deadspots.

Are you adding a picture frame to finish the hole?, usually this would encroach on the glass a little and with 25mm plumbing from the OM units you could tuck the pipes in the corners and hide with the framing?

Could you incorporate a coast to coast along the back wall instead of the two seperate overflow boxes?, this would give you and extra 20" to play with?

[Euler Kernighan]

Guys,

After a stressful week, finally got my hand dirty on this project. And you thought it'd never happen, uh?

Power tool? Not so power, just a cheapest chinese copy from a DeWalt/Makita/Milwaukee circular saw, I used it to cut a solid wall - a big hole in the wall for our tank