so i left my fish food out again...

[RiffRaff]

How bad of an idea would it be just to refreeze it? It was a lot. Brand new bag of pcmysis and almost 2 full rods food. I would really be happier if I didn't have to go rebuy it all. It was out approximately 8-9 hours

[Sugar Magnolia]

I wouldn't use it.

[Toddrtrex]

I would toss it.

Years ago, back when I managed a bar that served food, I had to become certified in food safety. There is one thing that has always stuck with me, the temperature danger zone. Basically (( and applying it to this case, it works for cook food too )), if frozen food is left in the temp danger zone (( above 41* )) for more then 4 hours it is no longer considered safe and must be disposed of, properly.

[blt]

In this case, toss them.

In general, check the packaging for "keep refrigerated" or "keep frozen". If the instructions include either of those, never re-freeze it once completely thawed. And always err on the side of caution. Like Todd said, it doesn't take long for cold-storage food to become unsafe and either start to rot or become bacterial breeding grounds.

[sporto0]

Constant freezing & thawing of anything causes it to lose moisture & it gets freezer burn more quickly, in this case I would definetly re-freeze it, it's fish food, not people food, fish eat decaying & rotting stuff all the time in the wild, 8 hrs is not enough time for it to have begun to decay or any airborne bacteria to have colonized it + I assume it was still in it's plastic bag or case. Sometimes I think we overthink this stuff way too much, just my opinion though.

[xCry0x]

I left a pack of blood worms out over night, refroze it and the fish have been eating it for over a month just fine. The biggest concern would be if your fish are picky and wont eat it.. if they eat it I would not worry about them getting food poisoning like a person might.

[blt]

8 hours is DEFINITELY enough time for bacteria to colonize it, and if the room was hot enough it could be long enough for decay become a problem.

Yes, it's fish food and not people food. But it's also being put into an enclosed ecosystem (if it can become a waterborne bacteria) and up against a fish immune system instead of open air and a human's immune system (and medicine cabinet).

[sporto0]

Originally Posted by blt

8 hours is DEFINITELY enough time for bacteria to colonize it, and if the room was hot enough it could be long enough for decay become a problem.

Yes, it's fish food and not people food. But it's also being put into an enclosed ecosystem (if it can become a waterborne bacteria) and up against a fish immune system instead of open air and a human's immune system (and medicine cabinet).

I respectfully disagree, it would take at leat 3-4 hrs to thaw out completely, leaving not nearly enough time to decay or for bacteria to form & I have no idea what your talking about the fish immune system vs human immune system, are you saying the waterborne pathogen becomes contagious to humans?

[Toddrtrex]

A thin pack of Rod's food can easily thaw in an hour or less. 4 hours in the temp danger zone is the threshold.

[sporto0]

Right Todd, I too have worked in the food service industry, FDA regulations, local Health Dept codes, for food designated for human consumption. Does anyone have any idea how this fish food is processed, how long it was thawed before being prepped & frozen & packaged for sale? There are no FDA rules & regs for pet food. I orderd frozen clams from Live Aquaria, 48 hr delivery time, it was delayed by a day, so 72 hrs on dry ice, when i received it it was almost completely thawed out, I have used it since with no ill effects, again I believe we are overthinking this.

[briankmarsh1980]

would you eat sea food you left out all night ?

[blt]

Originally Posted by sporto0

I respectfully disagree, it would take at leat 3-4 hrs to thaw out completely, leaving not nearly enough time to decay or for bacteria to form & I have no idea what your talking about the fish immune system vs human immune system, are you saying the waterborne pathogen becomes contagious to humans?

Disagree all you like, but bacteria can form in well under an hour and can easily reach high enough levels to cause minor illness in humans within 2 hours. In some rare cases (usually accompanied by an increased susceptibility), that can be enough time to be deadly with the wrong bacteria (such as Listeria).

For decay, it starts immediately upon death for plant or animal. Of course, it's not if decay is present - it's how much decay is present. Meat absolutely can go rancid within a few hours if it is in a hot enough environment.

As for fish vs human immune systems, I'm saying that a fish immune system may not be able to handle the relative concentration of food-borne bacteria that a human's immune system can (though I'm no marine biologist, and I will fully admit it could be the exact opposite). But hey, maybe the salt water will kill off whatever bacteria got onto the food or marine animals are immune to it. Or maybe the opposite is true and it'll breed like mad in the salt water and the fish have no defense against it and you end up with a dead tank.

The truth is likely somewhere in between, and likely closer to "not much happens". But why take the risk for a few dollars worth of food that you know has had a safety issue?

[sporto0]

Originally Posted by blt

Disagree all you like, but bacteria can form in well under an hour and can easily reach high enough levels to cause minor illness in humans within 2 hours. In some rare cases (usually accompanied by an increased susceptibility), that can be enough time to be deadly with the wrong bacteria (such as Listeria).

For decay, it starts immediately upon death for plant or animal. Of course, it's not if decay is present - it's how much decay is present. Meat absolutely can go rancid within a few hours if it is in a hot enough environment.

As for fish vs human immune systems, I'm saying that a fish immune system may not be able to handle the relative concentration of food-borne bacteria that a human's immune system can (though I'm no marine biologist, and I will fully admit it could be the exact opposite). But hey, maybe the salt water will kill off whatever bacteria got onto the food or marine animals are immune to it. Or maybe the opposite is true and it'll breed like mad in the salt water and the fish have no defense against it and you end up with a dead tank.
The truth is likely somewhere in between, and likely closer to "not much happens". But why take the risk for a few dollars worth of food that you know has had a safety issue?

Well, I will still disagree with you all I like. You have over thought this way too much. You have not even addressed the issue of how the original food was processed, packaged & shipped for resale. If it were even remotely as dangerous as you suggest it could be, they would never be able to sell frozen foods. Have you ever witnessed a dog or cat munching on a rotting corpse with no affect except severe bad breath? I agree it's not much money compared to what we spend on the hobby, but I disagree with the risk you propose. Airborne pathogens are just that, airborne, they don't morph into waterborne pathogens & vice versa.

[nauticac4]

I did this a couple weeks ago and used it and have had no ill effects on my fish. Make sure you refreeze it and you should be ok.

[RiffRaff]

Originally Posted by briankmarsh1980

would you eat sea food you left out all night ?

No more than I would eat fish poop or rods food

[bnumair]

TODD i beg to differ, i have completed manager certification every 3 yrs for last 18 yrs now.
danger zone is 41-135F is true to increase production in harmful bacteria. but what does health dept. tell u when ur food is in that danger zone?
they tell u to RE-HEAT it and bring it up to 135+. of when u are above 41F they tell u to use shallow pans and use ice packs and bring temp below 41 quickly.
thats done because once u reach the 135+ or 40or below level bacteria dies. otherwise they will toss the food in garbage can.

i also have left frozen fish food outside overnite and refrozen and reused with no effects,BUT for only $5 to $30 food why take a chance if u dont agree with me.

Note: its a very common practice for grandmothers to take frozen food/meat out of the freezer and leave it overnite in the sink for tomorows lunch. thus not making it safe or harmless but is done everyday in many many households around the world.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by bnumair

TODD i beg to differ, i have completed manager certification every 3 yrs for last 18 yrs now.
danger zone is 41-135F is true to increase production in harmful bacteria. but what does health dept. tell u when ur food is in that danger zone?
they tell u to RE-HEAT it and bring it up to 135+. of when u are above 41F they tell u to use shallow pans and use ice packs and bring temp below 41 quickly.
thats done because once u reach the 135+ or 40or below level bacteria dies.
BUT for only $5 to $30 food why take a chance.

You can disagree all you want, but I clearly stated that 4 or more hours is the issue -- and that is the case here, so to say otherwise is wrong.

Any any hot/frozen foods are in the danger zone for 4 or more hours they are no longer considered safe, and should be disposed of. I would be really shocked if your healthy department stated that those foods would still be safe -- if that is the case remind me never to eat in Oklahoma.

[albano]

Originally Posted by bnumair

Note: its a very common practice for grandmothers to take frozen food/meat out of the freezer and leave it overnite in the sink

OMG...you're an anti-grandma-ite!

[Allmost]

I dont know about health department ... but what bnumair said kinda puzzles me ... there must be a higher limit on how long to leave frozen stuff out, before it goes bad and can not be re frozen ! I may be missing something .. but according to his explanation, you can leave shrimps out for 2 days, and then fry it and its good ? :S I would not want to eat that ....

for the OP. your PE mysis has gone bad, BUT, refreeze it, and check the PE mysis again after frozen ... the heads will be black. !

I understand that you do not eat PE mysis yourself ... but it is comparable to The atlantic shrimp we eat ! would you eat that if it was left out over night ?
just because some people do not value life of a fish, as much as life of a human, it does not make it okay to treat your fish like this ....

I personally, do not know if it is okay or not, but I would not risk life of my PET, over a 30 dollar food bag. the fish itself is worth more, and to ME, life of any animal is priceless, and we are all animals too.

I used to make this mistake alot back in the days .... and trust me, I used to feed ALOT more expensive stuff to my stingrays lol but since then I have learned to always do this by the fridge .. take the bag out, break a piece, and put the bag back in the freezer .. ..

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Allmost

I dont know about health department ... but what bnumair said kinda puzzles me ... there must be a higher limit on how long to leave frozen stuff out, before it goes bad and can not be re frozen ! I may be missing something .. but according to his explanation, you can leave shrimps out for 2 days, and then fry it and its good ? :S I would not want to eat that ....

for the OP. your PE mysis has gone bad, BUT, refreeze it, and check the PE mysis again after frozen ... the heads will be black. !

I understand that you do not eat PE mysis yourself ... but it is comparable to The atlantic shrimp we eat ! would you eat that if it was left out over night ?
just because some people do not value life of a fish, as much as life of a human, it does not make it okay to treat your fish like this ....

I personally, do not know if it is okay or not, but I would not risk life of my PET, over a 30 dollar food bag. the fish itself is worth more, and to ME, life of any animal is priceless, and we are all animals too.

I used to make this mistake alot back in the days .... and trust me, I used to feed ALOT more expensive stuff to my stingrays lol but since then I have learned to always do this by the fridge .. take the bag out, break a piece, and put the bag back in the freezer .. ..

I am really hoping s/he just mis-typed. There are numerous PDF's out there about the 4 hour time limit for the temp danger zone -- it really can't be debated.

[Allmost]

Originally Posted by Toddrtrex

I am really hoping s/he just mis-typed. There are numerous PDF's out there about the 4 hour time limit for the temp danger zone -- it really can't be debated.

you are just worried about the lobster you had in Oklahoma arent you ?
[ hahah I am kidding of course lol]

yea I am sure there has to be a higher limit. perhaps, he/she meant before the 4 hours is up, you can re-heat it or re-Freeze it. but after it has gone bad ... and starts smelling ... yea, I dont think I would eat it doesnt matter how much its heated.

[bnumair]

sorry guys i didnt read the part where OP said it was over 8 hrs.
Yes TODD you are right about hours. As a matter of fact USDA states that refreezing should be done under 2 hrs of anything left out and under 1 hour if temp reached 90+.

here is what the book states.
Refreezing
Once food is thawed in the refrigerator, it is safe to refreeze it without cooking, although there may be a loss of quality due to the moisture lost through thawing. After cooking raw foods which were previously frozen, it is safe to freeze the cooked foods. If previously cooked foods are thawed in the refrigerator, you may refreeze the unused portion. Freeze leftovers within 3-4 days. Do not refreeze any foods left outside the refrigerator longer than 2 hours; 1 hour in temperatures above 90 °F.

If you purchase previously frozen meat, poultry or fish at a retail store, you can refreeze if it has been handled properly.

[bnumair]

i still agree with other on the fact that u are losing only $30-50 food that can be purchased again rather than taking a risk and lossing ur entire livestock or even just few. and i am sure you have livestock that each one is worth more than $50 or more.

[Jeremy1988]

Originally Posted by blt

8 hours is DEFINITELY enough time for bacteria to colonize it, and if the room was hot enough it could be long enough for decay become a problem.

Yes, it's fish food and not people food. But it's also being put into an enclosed ecosystem (if it can become a waterborne bacteria) and up against a fish immune system instead of open air and a human's immune system (and medicine cabinet).

What about 2 hours of leaving food out?

[Jeremy1988]

Originally Posted by bnumair

TODD i beg to differ, i have completed manager certification every 3 yrs for last 18 yrs now.
danger zone is 41-135F is true to increase production in harmful bacteria. but what does health dept. tell u when ur food is in that danger zone?
they tell u to RE-HEAT it and bring it up to 135+. of when u are above 41F they tell u to use shallow pans and use ice packs and bring temp below 41 quickly.
thats done because once u reach the 135+ or 40or below level bacteria dies. otherwise they will toss the food in garbage can.

i also have left frozen fish food outside overnite and refrozen and reused with no effects,BUT for only $5 to $30 food why take a chance if u dont agree with me.

Note: its a very common practice for grandmothers to take frozen food/meat out of the freezer and leave it overnite in the sink for tomorows lunch. thus not making it safe or harmless but is done everyday in many many
households around the world.

What if you left it out for an 2 hours and not 3-4? House temp 75