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Unread 08/27/2011, 06:49 PM   #1
littledabosalt
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solar power battery backup for my apex?

here is my plans for my backup for my apex.I found a60 watt amorphous solar charging kit from sunforceproducts.it has everything except the battery. i want to use a marine battery for the system to run A heater and at least two 1050 korelias that are hooked up to my apex.the reasoning behind this system is that when we lose power it is often for a longer period of time than a ups and a regular battery can handle so that is why I want to throw the solar power in in hopes that it can keep the battery charged long enough to run just the essentials. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated


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Unread 10/25/2011, 10:44 PM   #2
saltbitten
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its time to hijack my thread. now that I got my own name. so I got the coleman system instead just because it had the metal frame. I so far have the solar panel on the roof. and I am ready to purchase my batteries and boxes I think I'll do two deep cycle marine batteries for more storage.the inverter is a 200 watt modified sine wave that I will probably change later for a bigger unit. so now then I need to decide how and what to power and if there is some code I can use to work with the apex


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Unread 10/26/2011, 12:34 PM   #3
kurt_n
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You might want to wander over to the Neptune Systems forum here in the Sponsor section ( http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=368 ) and search there for code examples. Many discussions there about battery backup strategies.


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Unread 10/27/2011, 09:19 PM   #4
saltbitten
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good Idea thanks


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Unread 10/28/2011, 04:55 AM   #5
fishgate
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I don't think the solar charger is going to do anything but keep the battery topped up with a trickle charge. If the power is out long enough to run down the battery, the solar charger is going to maybe give you an extra 10 minutes or so. It will not produce enough power to run the components for any length of time.


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Unread 10/29/2011, 06:48 PM   #6
saltbitten
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fish Your probably right and I thought that too. my hopes are since I'm going to run two marine batteries that the solar will be charging them until I can get the inverter hooked up to one of my cars. so I have a back up plan there my intentions are to have as many of those as possible. and if this will help,the more power to me. LOL when we lose power for a few days from a major ice storm that messed up 2/3 of the city a couple of years ago. I knew I would have to come up with a plan there were a lot of fish around here that lost there lives. so anything I can do until I can get my generator will be a help . I thought about running a upc like a lot of people do but what do you do when that battery runs out I figure this way I have more power storage and a way to start charging right a way. so even though it's not the best way I believe it's my best option until I can get that generator. And I will run just the stuff I need off of the backup so that should prolong the drainage longer .I myself once I get it all hooked up plan on testing it out on a weekend will I'm home and seeing how long it works so I'll let you know if I wasted my money or not. HOPEFULLY not LOL


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Unread 10/29/2011, 10:58 PM   #7
Mike31154
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It's a numbers game in the end. While not in use, the batteries will remain topped up via your solar panel. Once the power outage happens, you'll need to determine what you wish to run & how much power each of those components uses, more importantly, how much power per hour. This will allow you to roughly calculate how long your batteries will last running the components you've chosen as essential until you get the generator fired up. So it's very important to know the Ah or ampere hour rating of each of your batteries. With this rating, you'll have a good idea of how long they'll run the equipment you have hooked up to them. Make sure your system includes a charge controller so that the batteries don't get overcharged between power outages. You might want to look into powering some items with this system all the time to make use of the extra power when the batteries have achieved full charge. It would be a shame to have the solar panels putting out extra energy that's not being utilized.


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Unread 10/30/2011, 03:51 PM   #8
saltbitten
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thats good to know mike on the amperes and I agree too on putting some equipment on there I'll have to figure out what would be a good idea to use it for.you got the right idea on why I choose the solar unit for I knew it wasn't but it's the only way I could think of to be able to get enough power to run some basics and be able to charge thebatteries till I'm availble to fix the problem with a generator.



Last edited by saltbitten; 10/30/2011 at 04:36 PM.
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Unread 11/01/2011, 12:01 AM   #9
saltbitten
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I got two of the napa premium deep cycle batteries today with a battery reserve capacity of 185 each and a battery weight of 59lbs each which according to wikapedia {Reserve capacity minutes (RCM), also referred to as reserve capacity (RC), is a battery's ability to sustain a minimum stated electrical load; it is defined as the time (in minutes) that a lead-acid battery at 80 °F (27 °C) will continuously deliver 25 amperes before its voltage drops below 10.5 volts} should be good.the solar panels are rated at 55 watts but could add more if I desire. My solar charge controller is 7amps with a cut out at14.2v and a cut in at 13v.I have both a 200watt and 800 watt modified sine wave inverters I know that isn't the preffered inverter but that's what i have for now.I don't no what can be ran on those.but hopefully the basics.and at least my 12v power to the apex.if not an EB8.Here isa few pics so far. including the70 gallon stand I will cut down to house the whole setup.


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Unread 11/01/2011, 07:13 PM   #10
t0pcat
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Hi,

I have toyed with the idea of experimenting with the solar, You may find that a solar inverter maybe a good idea as you can actually run the system of solar when it is capable of producing the required power if not it will then switch to power supply and if that fails to a battery bank. You can get them in various sizes as well, I was looking at running purely return and circulation pump to keep a system running in a disaster.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130563449...#ht_3938wt_960


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Unread 11/01/2011, 07:15 PM   #11
t0pcat
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Double post 8)



Last edited by t0pcat; 11/01/2011 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Double post
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Unread 11/01/2011, 09:50 PM   #12
saltbitten
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thats what I'm trying to decide on is what I can run and what I can't run but so far the way I see it. free is for me . and that includes power LOL


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Unread 11/05/2011, 10:57 AM   #13
Mike31154
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Looks like you're off to a pretty good start salt. Those two batteries when fully charged will keep the life support for your tank going for quite a while. How many 55 watt solar panels do you have at this point? Photos? Could take a while for those to fully charge the batteries when they're drained, but if you're intent is to use the batteries as emergency backup only, that shouldn't be an issue.

As far as the modified sine wave inverter, a heater doesn't care & will work no problem with modifed, as will any other piece of gear that has it's own small power supply which rectifies the AC back to DC anyhow. Generally it's anything with an AC motor that doesn't play well with modified sine waves.

It appears your Apex controller runs on 12 volts also, so you may even choose to bypass the inverter for that, although you'll want a DC regulator in that circuit to protect it from varying battery voltage (which will change with the state of charge from just over 14 volts down to less than 12). So in the end, it's probably just as well to use an inverter to power the Apex power supply? Have a close look at the specs for your two inverters. One is 200 & the other 800 for a total of 1000 watts, but often they will use the maximum surge capacity of the inverter as the primary label. The continuous rating might be a bit lower for each one. In any case, it's better to load an inverter somewhat like a household circuit, at 80% or less of maximum rating.

Good link to the solar inverter there cat. First time I've seen a good sized pure sine wave inverter at that price point with built in charger and PWM solar charge controller. Just have to watch the shipping on that, it's a deal killer. And need to make sure you specify the 110 VAC model, unless you really want a 220 VAC output. I'll be doing a little more searching for listings with a more reasonable shipping option.


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Unread 11/06/2011, 08:00 PM   #14
saltbitten
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I think it's going to do what I want so far I now have tested the charging of the solar panels and they are charging. and I ran down one of the batteries yesterday trying to start a car and then I left it on the car all night so it was down quit a ways. the system I got up and running today though with that drained battery and the charged battery at 4 oclock indiana time I put 2 lights on the 800 watt inverter at 31 watts between the 2 lights{16 watt flo spotlight and 16 watt led worklight } I don't know the amps though. but they are going strong for 4 hours +. so I'm assuming mike from what your saying the sump and skimmer pumps are probably not going to do as good as most of the other stuff because don't they run an ac motor or am I wrong .and as far as the panels go mike the kit itself said its a55watt kit so I'm assuming that means since there are three panels thats 55 divided by 3 But this is all new to me so I guess it could be like a battery when you put pos to pos and neg to neg you still only have 12 volts.just more space they kit also says that you can add additional panels if you want to but I'm not sure how that will benefit me.here are a few pics that I took today while I was setting it up and there is a pic of the panels on the roof. and pic of the stand after I cut it downI built a plexi pan to help incase there was some kind of leak. better to be safe then sorry and also a pic of the system running.

P1010001.jpgP1010153.jpgP1010155.jpgP1010164.jpg
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Unread 11/10/2011, 10:20 PM   #15
saltbitten
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if I can do some programming to my apex so I can shut everything down but the controller a pump or two a heater and my led bar since that will use the least power.I'm not sure how to get it to realize the back up is on instead of the ac power .if there is any programming help out there for this please let me know because I don't have a clue I figure my inverter can run this stuff for several hours and still be trying to charge the batteries with either solar or my car .


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Unread 11/15/2011, 11:37 PM   #16
Mike31154
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Careful where you keep that battery box, when charging/discharging there are some hazardous fumes produced. It needs to be properly vented, preferably to the outside, not your living room or den. I'd also mount the inverter outside the box. Although it's electronic, there's still a possibility of sparks when connecting or disconnecting the leads or when you switch it on or off. Sparks & battery fumes are to be avoided.

Also not a good idea to connect two batteries together that are in a significantly different state of charge and have them charging using the same charge controller. Better to charge the one you drained trying to start the car on its own until it's close to the voltage of the other one. One more thing to keep in mind. Deep cycle batteries aren't well suited to starting vehicles. Due to plate design, they don't have the same cranking power as a normal car battery.

Pretty safe to assume your return pump & skimmer pump have AC motors. They plug into a normal wall outlet correct? They may run ok with the modified sine wave produced by the inverter, they may not. If they do, it's still not a good way to run them for very long. They'll be inefficient using a chopped wave & will likely end up producing more heat & using more than their rated power. You haven't provided details on their rated power consumption but they will probably draw a fair bit of current. Might be better to use the backup power on water movement with powerhead in the display & heater as minimum life support.

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit critical here, but most of these points I'm bringing up are safety issues. Just trying to inform you of the hazards & minimize the potential for mishaps.

As far as adding solar panels, the more the better provided you don't exceed the capacity of your charge controller. It's going to take quite a few hours for your 55 watt array to charge those two batteries once they get fully discharged. Ohms law P=EI (Watts=Volt x Current). If your solar array is producing the maximum 14 volts that means charging current should be 3.9 amps (55 watts divided by 14 volts), best case scenario, which is rarely the case. Would take quite a few sunny days to fully charge two drained batteries.

Sorry I can't help out with the Apex programming, don't have such a beast. My current backup system is a couple of battery operated air pumps plugged into the same outlets as the other tank equipment. There's a small relay built into each one that senses when power is lost & the air pumps start running automatically. Pretty basic, but should keep critters alive until I get home & figure out what to do next. Fortunate to have fairly reliable power where I live. Only one extended outage since I moved here, probably 5 - 6 hours at the most. I pulled a battery out of my truck & ran life support with a 1000 watt inverter hooked up to it. Purchased a wind generator last year but still haven't purchased the deep cycle batteries needed, nor mounted the generator. Solar panels are next on the list, then I'll try to put together a wind/solar hybrid system.


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Unread 11/16/2011, 09:33 PM   #17
saltbitten
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thanks for the info mike I was under the impression that the batteries I'm running should be a sealed unit so they should be safe. I have a fan that I 'am going to power up.but now I'm wondering if I couldn't come up with some case to stick the batteries in outside but it gets very cold here in the winter. and I don't know how that would work out when it gets really cold. I don't have a basement so I don't have a choice but have it near the tank. I am not going to run a sump or skimmer on it just the air pumps the korelias and My reefbright for a little light . and the heater. on my other thread about the codes I got some good info there And had russ give me some ideas to so I think I'm good there. I have an automatic transfer switch coming and then I hope to be hooked up . we aren't as lucky on loosing power it seems to happen alot here as a matter of fact it was of for a short time yesterday. I'll have to do some digging into the battery thing though and found out what I can do to help that out.


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Unread 11/19/2011, 09:29 PM   #18
Mike31154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltbitten View Post
thanks for the info mike I was under the impression that the batteries I'm running should be a sealed unit so they should be safe.
Sorry, I looked at your photo and seeing Maintenance Accessible Battery on the top, I assumed they were regular flooded batteries. The ones you have may not vent as much as a conventional flooded one but you should confirm anyhow just to be safe. Never hurts to have some ventilation with a couple of large batteries like that.


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Unread 11/22/2011, 06:23 PM   #19
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I went on ahead and bought a deck box last saturday reinforced it and insulated it with insulation and then put it all on a wood platform so that it will hopefully be warm enough for the winter months. I put all the other componets on a shelf board next to the tank. so better safe then sorry.


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