I'm concerned about this tank...

[GasmaskCowgirl]

My boyfriend and I are complete newbies to this hobby. He got a tank about a month ago from a LFS and has been going there for the tank needs... I've yet to go since the shop is 35 minutes away where he works so I've been more an observer than the caretaker so far, however I'm concerned...

One of the first things he got was a little Kenya tree coral and it appears to be dying now. We're thinking it could be due to the water flow being too high for it's liking, but that was what initially made me wonder- considering the shop owner also sold him the 14 gallon Biocube tank, shouldn't the owner have already known the level of flow in it, so why recommend that type of coral? Also, I've been reading that things shouldn't be so quickly introduced to a new tank in the first place- which also makes me wonder why he recommended things so quickly at all.

Since I'm personally unsure how knowledgeable this fish shop owner truly is when it comes to all of this- hopefully it's alright if I post our coral and tank pictures here and someone can let me know some far more educated information. I've done much more research now, but hearing directly from people is always good in case there's things I've missed since I wouldn't be able to specifically pin-point certain things. My boyfriend's very excited about this new tank, as am I, but I fear he put too much trust into this shop owner. Normally we're researchers when it comes to animals- we've both had reptiles and I have a reptile as well as tarantulas, so I'm used to researching before I buy. I think he relied and trusted the fish owner over researching this time because saltwater tanks can come off intimidating and relying on someone with first-hand experience feels less daunting/confusing than reading things that sometimes sound quite complicated. However, perhaps that wasn't the best move in this situation. Hence why I've joined this forum, so alongside researching, we can now talk to people with experience rather than MAYBE an owner wanting to make some cash...


It's a 14 gallon Biocube tank that seems to have a more moderate air flow:





Here's the coral I'm worried about, she looks terrible :



Marve, a banded shrimp:



Darwin, a debelius' reef lobster:



Samuel L. Jackson, a green brittle starfish:



And a some sea snails- there's 4 teeny ones that suck on the glass, and this guy, Arthur, who's larger and sifts through the sand:



My only request is to please be kind with your criticisms, recommendations, and knowledge- we're new, I realize what should've been done and am trying to quickly learn quite a bit to make sure they're all safe. Also, in regards to the coral, are there any steps that can be taken to save her? Or is it too late?

[WetShepherd]

Welcome to RC! I've found the people here to be incredibly helpful - I don't know where I'd be without them. Your tank is so far from my own experience I can't offer any direct advice, except possibly on how to get more direct help from the more experienced reefers here.

You'll want to include information such as, how old is the tank? did you cycle? what are your water paramaters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, salinity), what kind of water are you using (tap, well, ro/di ... your own or store bought)? How often and how much water are you changing?

You could also include what hardware you are using (standard or not to the biocube), such as what lights you have (affects your coral), how long you run them for (affects coral and algae), do you have a skimmer (not sure if you can do that in a biocube)?

Well, that's a lot of questions, but it will save you getting the list a piece at a time later when people start replying. Note that there is a sticky above this thread that has a list you can copy and paste from.

Best of luck - I'm sure you'll get the help you need. And I think you're right - it sounds like your LFS is more interested in selling then helping you out. It's not an uncommon story ;(

[GasmaskCowgirl]

Thanks so much, WetSheperd! I'll answer the questions to the best of my ability and edit my original post to include them now!

[sporto0]

The easy answer is that 1 month is way too soon to put corals in a tank, how long did it cycle for? I am going to assume that with a 14g tank you don't have a sump or protein skimmer, were you able to add these, it will make life easier for you because 14g total water volume, probably a little less with the rock displacement, is notoriously hard to keep water parameters in check, also when something is askew, it is magnified because of the smaller volume. Having said that, it is not impossible to keep a few corals & a fish or two healthy in a nano. Please, as has been noted already, give more info on the tank, filtration, lighting, nitrate, ammonia, nitrite levels if you know & we'll go from there.

[evsalty]

Welcome to the hobby and the forum.

The 14g bio cube return pump is not a lot of flow. Do you have any sort of other powerhead in there for water movement? The green brittle star looks very big, I would be very concerned with it eating fish.

[cloak]

Being that the invertebrates seem to be doing ok, I would think you would be fine adding a coral such as a kenya tree right off the bat. It doesn't look good, but these corals are very durable. Assuming your parameters are within reason, try moving it to the bottom of the tank in one of the front corners for a week or so and see what kind of a response you get. Good luck.

[GasmaskCowgirl]

Okay, I got a notice saying I edited too much within a 60 minute period, so I'll instead post the new information here:

EDIT: Thanks to WetSheperd, here's some extra information:

-How old is the tank: He bought the tank used and we've had it about a month now.
-Did you cycle: I'm pretty definite the tank is currently going through the cycle, since we've only had it a month and it does have animals in it.
-Water parameters: I'll be honest and say I have no clue and I'm unsure my boyfriend knows either.
-Kind of water used: It's store bought from that same LFS
-How often and how much water are you changing: He recently changed the water just yesterday, so it's been near a month since the initial water being put in and about half the water was changed.
-Hardware: We're using the standard hardware for the Biocube.
-Lighting: One 10,000k 24 watt and one Actinic 24 watt- both together run all day and the Actinic runs all night by itself.
-Skimmer: We don't have one.

I apologize if my answers seem stupid, since I'm completely new.

[schristi69]

The LFS has a motive to sell you stuff...profit. If your stuff dies....they sell you more. It is always best to know what you need before going in there. I would get rid of that Green Brittle star. You might find your other tank inhabitants start to disappear. Do you test your water? Test kits are your friends. Hard to determine what the problem is without knowing your water parameters. Knowing your tank parameters is the first step in problem determination.

[ReeferBill]

Welcome to Reef Central ! GasmaskCowgirl ; you will learn that patience in this hobby is hard to adhere to but the slower you go the more successful you will be. Keep checking your ammonia,nitrates,salt and don't be afraid of doing water changes. I change 20-30% of my water every week.You should wait a couple of months before you add any corals , and 6 months for an anenome. When Nitrates and Ammonia are at exceptable levels you can add something new but your size tank cannot support too much. The solution to polution is dilution.You should also blow off the rock before your water change to get rid of any detritous accumulated in the rock. Research

[schristi69]

Since you have no sump or skimmer, you really should be doing at least a 10% water change every week on that small of tank. How did you cycle your tank? You really cannot tell if it has cycled without testing your water. There are no stupid questions.

[sporto0]

You will need to test your water before we can help you, your tank may not have finished cycling yet & that would explain any problems with the Kenya Coral or any other that may soon arise. Good luck, we'll be waiting for the results, ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels right now are the most important parameters for you.

[GasmaskCowgirl]

Originally Posted by sporto0

The easy answer is that 1 month is way too soon to put corals in a tank, how long did it cycle for? I am going to assume that with a 14g tank you don't have a sump or protein skimmer, were you able to add these, it will make life easier for you because 14g total water volume, probably a little less with the rock displacement, is notoriously hard to keep water parameters in check, also when something is askew, it is magnified because of the smaller volume. Having said that, it is not impossible to keep a few corals & a fish or two healthy in a nano. Please, as has been noted already, give more info on the tank, filtration, lighting, nitrate, ammonia, nitrite levels if you know & we'll go from there.

There's no skimmer in there and I never even realized a smaller tank like this could be more difficult to keep in check due to the smaller volume! I'm so glad I posted this question because you pin-pointed something I never would've realized on my own.

Originally Posted by evsalty

Welcome to the hobby and the forum.

The 14g bio cube return pump is not a lot of flow. Do you have any sort of other powerhead in there for water movement? The green brittle star looks very big, I would be very concerned with it eating fish.

I don't think it has any other powerhead in there, it's only what the Biocube came with. And I was wondering about the starfish as well- not just on it eating any animals, but the size... I read they're more appropriate for a 60 gallon tank! Is this tank truly way too small for it/will the tank size cause problems for the starfish?

Originally Posted by cloak

Being that the invertebrates seem to be doing ok, I would think you would be fine adding a coral such as a kenya tree right off the bat. It doesn't look good, but these corals are very durable. Assuming your parameters are within reason, try moving it to the bottom of the tank in one of the front corners for a week or so and see what kind of a response you get. Good luck.

I'll definitely move it to a front corner! As silly as it sounds, I've grown a bit attached to that coral... so I would be pretty sad if it died, I'll try anything to help it live.

Originally Posted by schristi69

The LFS has a motive to sell you stuff...profit. If your stuff dies....they sell you more. It is always best to know what you need before going in there. I would get rid of that Green Brittle star. You might find your other tank inhabitants start to disappear. Do you test your water? Test kits are your friends. Hard to determine what the problem is without knowing your water parameters. Knowing your tank parameters is the first step in problem determination.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, from what my boyfriend said, the guy seemed very helpful... but judging from what I'm realizing, he doesn't seem nearly as knowledgeable as we originally thought. But, it's not completely his fault, we should've researched on our own anyway instead of just purely relying on the owner's experience. Lesson definitely learned. We haven't tested the water- are there any water test kits you'd recommend in particular? Or anything would work fine?

[cloak]

You might have gotten lucky. The live rock you put into the tank could have already been cured and was ready to go. Like mentioned above though, your going to have to test your water to find out where you stand. If anything right now, make sure to keep up with your top offs. Your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate will work themselves out on there own givin time.

[Sanveann]

I can't offer any advice, as I'm also just starting out, but if you're looking for any books on SW tanks, I've found "The New Marine Aquarium" to be very helpful. I've also just started "Marine Aquarium Handbook," which goes a little more in-depth but is a little more dense reading.

[jarrodsanborn]

welcome. heres some tips,

lights are on too long.
white lights on for 8 hrs.
actinic lights on for 8 to 10 hrs. they should not be on all night though, instead have them on at the same time.

water changes are your friend. this fixes almost all problems.

"all in one" cube tanks ALWAYS need more flow than stock. a koralia nano is a good choice.

slow down, and research before buying anything else.

relax, dont panic, and have fun!

[GasmaskCowgirl]

Originally Posted by cloak

You might have gotten lucky. The live rock you put into the tank could have already been cured and was ready to go. Like mentioned above though, your going to have to test your water to find out where you stand. If anything right now, make sure to keep up with your top offs.

I just put the coral in a front corner of the tank, but it looks like it's shed a lot of it's "skin" and underneath is white... I read that when the die, they turn white... is she too far gone??

[sporto0]

Like Cloak said earlier, they are one of the hardier corals, however it does not look good, I won't sugar coat it for you. It may still make it, but if it is kind of melting away, that's not a good sign, you never know, a small piece might survive without you knowing it & one day it will just appear again, we've all experienced that once or twice before. Good luck again, get those test kits, do frequent water changes until you get a better grasp on things.

[Sk8r]

At the top of this forum is a free guide to setting up. If you will read that carefully and compare that against procedures with your tank, you may be able to identify some problems, and most of all compare what you've got against what you need.
By what I can tell, you started out running a tank without cycling, and now it's trying to cycle? You can try to baby it through with small water changes (Amquel or Prime if it really starts to spike) and try to keep everything alive---but it's going to be hard to get it to set up properly. I think we can keep it from crashing, if you just don't push it. Above all, don't add any new wildlife. Just ride pat. And do not take that store's word for anything without checking with experienced reefers here on RC: the store not advising you got you into this mess, and hopefully we can get you leveled out, but be VERY cautious about feeding, as in, don't feed except every other day---hard to long-distance this, but that tank is in far more danger from feeding than from not feeding. Food is added biomass, and with potential coral death in prospect, you don't need any more dead biomass in there. Check your salinity and keep it spot on (an autotopoff---a float switch and pump and ro water at very least); A simple tank can go 2 weeks without feeding. Just do tests 2x daily and watch that ammonia. Water change 20% if you spot it; if it WON'T stop rising use Amquel.

[GasmaskCowgirl]

Originally Posted by Sanveann

I can't offer any advice, as I'm also just starting out, but if you're looking for any books on SW tanks, I've found "The New Marine Aquarium" to be very helpful. I've also just started "Marine Aquarium Handbook," which goes a little more in-depth but is a little more dense reading.

Thank you so much, I'm going to have to get that book, we need all the help we can get!

Originally Posted by jarrodsanborn

welcome. heres some tips,

lights are on too long.
white lights on for 8 hrs.
actinic lights on for 8 to 10 hrs. they should not be on all night though, instead have them on at the same time.

water changes are your friend. this fixes almost all problems.

"all in one" cube tanks ALWAYS need more flow than stock. a koralia nano is a good choice.

slow down, and research before buying anything else.

relax, dont panic, and have fun!

Okay, I'll definitely start turning them off at night. Since the actinic light is 8-10 hours, I'll just turn it on and turn it off the same time I do the white light from now on, got it!
Now with the flow on the Biocube- is this definite that the Biocube needs more flow? It makes the coral move quite a bit constantly, so I thought maybe the flow was too strong. :S Was judging the speed by the coral movement deeply off? And thanks by the way on the don't panic part, hehe, because I have been kinda starting to panic. :S

[cloak]

Shedding is normal, but if it's white all up & down the stalk, that's not good. If just the base is white, it could just be detaching from the rock it's attached to, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Your just going to have to give it some time. Don't fiddle with it.

[sponger0]

Ok ill give the best advice I can. One....definately get a water test kit. Water chemistry is number one in my book with this hobby. Even you just get an API kit with pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Very important. This will also tell you if your tank is cycled.

You dont have room for a skimmer so water changes once a week are recommended. 10% every week. You should use RO/DI water and premixed salt water from a fish store. Dont use tap. Too many metals and such to do harm to your tank.

Is this a new biocube?

Also, remember fish stores are there to make money...so yes they will try to sell you as much as they can. Kind of like going to a car dealership. So before you buy anything, do your research on the animal. I know Im one to talk cause Ive made impulse purchases...and luckily I havent regretted it (fingers crossed)

I can tell you kenya trees like alot of flow...now with that being said I didnt see a power head anywhere. Do you have one?

I am looking and it seems you have enough rock for filtration. Thats is going to be what keeps most of your water clean.

Im giving you best advice I can with your dire situation, but without some water parameters its hard to give more. So get a test kit and get back with us so we all can help you more.

And lastly, a biocube 14 is not too small...you can be very successful with education and diligence. So try not to worry about the size too much. My girlfriend has a 14 and its doing very well.

[janalta]

I'm a 'newbie' as well...as least to Sw tanks...but...there are a few glaring things I see right away that are cause for concern.
( size is not one of them.....I've seen amazing 5 gal nano tanks that would blow you away )

First....that Green Brittle is a monster ! They grow fast and they grow large....the LFS should NEVER have sold it to your bf !!!!!!!! They are about the only non safe brittles...I have tons of them in my tank, they make great CUC additions....but they are tiny little guys and they are not green ! This thing will outgrow your tank very quickly and will eat everyone else. RETURN IT ASAP.

If you plan on adding fish or smaller inverts....the lobster could well do the same thing.

By the looks of your tank, it is still in the middle of a cycle.....with all that algae....you shouldn't have added anything yet but a small CUC of snails and perhaps a few hermits.

You can not run a SW tank, of any size, without a water test kit...doesn't have to be expensive, doesn't have to be fancy...just the basic test for ammonia, nitrates, etc will do.
You also can not run a SW tank without being able to measure the salinity....you have to know exactly where your salinity level is at all the time. For now, just grab a cheap hydrometer....much better than nothing.

Don't add anything else to your tank until everything stabilizes...I would wait a good month at least.

You were definitely running your lights way too much...ocean's don't get 24 hrs of sunlight...neither should your tank.

Don't forget also that you need to top your tank up regularly with fresh, not salt, water to make up for evaporation loss. ( again, why you need to always know the level of salinity in your tank ) Corals are very sensitive to changes in chemistry and salinity, so will show stress before your inverts.

[Microcosmos]

Well, okay, I'm surprised to be the first one to say this, but I'll go ahead and say it: GREAT JOB! Yes you made a few newbie mistakes (going too fast is number one for a LOT of newbies, and so is going solely on LFS advice--you are not alone!), but most newbies try to stock a lot of fish all at once, and then have trouble with not only biomass but also compatibility. So, good on you for holding off on adding any fish yet! Also, many give up after a tank crash, and leave the hobby thinking it's "too hard." You not only didn't give up, but you came to someone in the hobby for help before your tank crashed all the way! I think you'll have long-term success in this hobby, with an attitude like that.

As for advice, +1 on the books mentioned above. And +1 on the light cycle reduction and addition of a hang-on protein skimmer as well (the protein skimmer purchase will undoubtedly be approved by your LFS guy! ). I highly recommend not adding anything else living to your setup for at least a month, if not two. The LR may have been cycled when you got it, as mentioned, but it will be going through more of a cycle with each new creature you add.

Keep those questions coming, along with more details about your goals for the livestock you eventually plan to keep and water test parameters and such. And good luck!

P.S. This forum and the books mentioned above should be required reading for your boyfriend, too!


Sean Bartel

[WetShepherd]

Quick note on the pre-mixed water you are buying; check it's parameters too. If you found the water to be worse than what you are getting out of your faucet, you wouldn't be the first. Hopefully it's good, but it's always worth checking.

*note to clarify* the basic things you are checking water for are ammonia (toxic, sk8r told you how to 'lock' this up), nitrites (toxic), nitrates (keep this at a minimum), pH and salinity. You can get a kit to do all of that except the salinity; for that you'll need either a refractometer ($$$ but better) or a hydrometer (cheap). The cost sneaks up pretty quick

[sporto0]

Cowgirl, anyone who says the size of the tank is not a concern is not telling you the whole story, Nano tanks do require extra special attention to the details, like I mentioned before, stability can be thrown off very quickly in a smaller volume tank, less room for error. You can keep very nice Nano tanks, but read up on them first, it does require a little more diligence & patience. Enjoy!