a couple concerns

[Jeremynickles]

Hello everyone. Just registered on here a couple nights ago and today is my first chance to get a post going. Ive got a couple concerns moving along with my 75g tank. My tank has been up and running for almost 4 months now. I tested my water today for the first time. My results are Salinity = 1.025 PH = 7.8 Nitrates = 10 ppm Ammonia = 1 MG/L Nitrites = 0. Ive got about 50 to 60 lbs of Live Rock and at least 30 lbs of sand. Im running T5's with total output watts of 440 watts. I have a sump with some rubble rock in the bottom and I am also using a skimmer. I don't know the name of it but its constantly pulling out green slime and water. My concerns were I just finished reading the sticky put up by Sk8r and I am aiming of having a reef tank that needs lots of water flow. The way he said I should start is by using the medium grade argonite sand and putting down egg crate first and my Live Rock before adding the sand. I went totally opposite I placed my Rock and then added the sand. I didn't use the medium grade sand I went the cheaper route and just used play sand from Lowes. A friend of mine said it would be fine. I also didn't use the egg crate. I just received my new filters today so at the moment I am doing a 15 gallon water change to see if i get any changes in my tank going. Ive read a couple times now I should have seen at least green algae growing in my tank since its been running for at least 3 months. I guess my biggest concern is should i pull out my rock and sand and start over with egg crate and getting better substrate.

Thanks for your time
Jeremy

[Ron Reefman]

As one Floridian to another... Hi,

In your 75g the eggcrate in the sand idea can be a plus or a minus and it can be done equally effectively either way. The same thing goes for whether the sand or rock goes in first. This is a hobby with too many contadictions and people feel strongly both ways!

Your water parameters aren't spot on, but close enough for now.

As for your sand!!! Reef sand should be aragonite and play sand is usually silica. That can be a problem. Araganite helps your systems chemistry and silica helps nuisance algae grow. Check the bag the sand came in... I know, you tossed it in the trash the day you opened it. So go to HD and look at a bag there. If it's not aragonite (and it won't be) you should seriously consider changing it. You don't have to, and things may run smoothly in your tank... but some have had problems silica sand, and it's easier to solve now than 1 year down the road when you have fish, coral, snails, crabs, shrimp... you get the picture.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[Jeremynickles]

Thanks a lot for the reply! I bet your enjoying this small cold front were getting as much as I am, windows down all day no AC running .

On to the situation at hand. Do i need to remove it all from my tank or can I just add enough to make sure its covered ? Also another question is Ive read that into about 4 weeks of the tank being up I should have seen some sort of green algae bloom ? All Ive had is some brown algae across the rocks and sand.

[x947]

A Dreadnaught, perhaps ?

[Steve175]

Agree: if sand is not aragonite, remove it now and replace to avoid a hair algae thread later

[Jeremynickles]

@x947 Yes sir graduated in 04 from LHS. and @steve175 thanks for your reply back. still waiting to see if i need to remove it all or just make sure its covered.

[WetShepherd]

Do not cover it. Having a couple or three inches of the right substrate will help keep your pH balanced, and that's related directly do the sand you have on the bottom (not talking about deep sand beds, which is a whole other thing). You will also still have the problem of the silica feeding hair algae - yea it will still seep up through.

In terms of changing it, you have two options, which someone can hopefully chime in on. The decision should be based on how much nutriance for hair algae will remain suspended in the water if the sand is removed.

Easy option one is the route I took to switch from crushed coral to argonite. I moved my fish to my QT which I had filled with tank water - no need for acclimation! Then I moved all of my LR to buckets and siphoned the remaining water out to those same buckets. All that was left was to scoop the substrate out and replace. It wasn't too bad for me because I didn't need to get 100% of the crushed coral out - 98% was the goal and it was actually pretty easy to reach. Total time was about 1 hour to complete and I waited until the next day to put the fish back in (water cleared after about 6 hours).

Option two is simply starting over, and it's what you will want to do if someone chimes in and says that too much silica is retained in the water, creating a nightmare out of hair algae. It sucks, but it could save you a lot more work in the long run.

Anyway - that's just one opinion; see if you can turn up some people who have successfully used the same sand as you and find out what problems and successes they've had

[Jeremynickles]

Thanks a lot for your reply! I guess I should of done more research on the substrate issue before starting. I have my rock just where I wanted it. So really my only option is to remove my rock and start scooping and hopefully I dont have to fully start over.

Also I tried looking for medium grade aragonite sand but it brings up just plain aragonite sand. What am I looking for exactly ?

Another worry I have is am I going to cause another cycle in my tank. I have no live stock so its pretty easy on that end.

[Steve175]

Look at reef flakes (best), mini reef flakes (better if flow not too high) or sugar sized carib sea aragamax. Definitely remove all of what's in there. Covering it won't suppress silica. A large shop vac would likely make short work of it. Agree with more research before purchases (we have ALL been there multiple times) but better late than never. Hair algae blows!!!

[Jeremynickles]

you say use a shop vac, do i need to get rid of all my water ? or can i just store it, so I can just add it back to my tank once I am done taking out the sand.

[Jeremynickles]

bump

[00Warpig00]

Originally Posted by Jeremynickles

you say use a shop vac, do i need to get rid of all my water ? or can i just store it, so I can just add it back to my tank once I am done taking out the sand.

Admittedly a newb to this hobby only about a year in myself... Someone correct me if I am wrong here, But what I get from all my reading about "The Cycle" is that it is used as a guage to measure/verify the effectiveness of your filtering as a whole. Think "Filter preparation" instead of "Water preparation" you are not preparing the WATER for fish you are preparing/verifying your FILTERING to filter/convert/remove contaminants from the water. If you have already cycled and thus verified effectiveness of your filtering, changing your water should have a minimum impact. Just my take on that someone please chime in to correct but I think i understand the concept.

It seems you may have low PH due to your sand choice. I am looking at your ammonia vs nitrite vs nitrate results and am wondering if your ammonia test is flawed. If you are seeing ammonia and Nitrate it seems you should have some nitrite reading too. I have seen an ammonia reading of >= 0.25 ppm and a nitrite of 0 ppm and a Nitrate of ~10 ppm or more indicate a faulty ammonia test. A water sample tested at the LFS or with another test kit can verify this. I had this happen to me. I had an ammonia reading and a nitrate reading but no nitrite reading. I tested several days in a row with the same results. no change in ammonia or nitrite which either meant nothing was being converted or one of my tests was faulty. A test vs the LFS ammonia test confirmed a faulty ammonia test. I really had 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and ~10 nitrate. All my ammonia had been converted to nitrite and then nitrate.

Nick

[Jeremynickles]

Thank you for the reply and I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me.

Soo pretty much the general opinion is for me to start over. Get a medium grade aragonite substrate and replace my home tests. And see where that takes me.

[WetShepherd]

Yes, although as warpig mentioned, you aren't exactly starting from scratch. As long as you keep your rock wet then you'll retain the important bacteria that you've grown. In other words, your cycle will pick up almost where it left off.

[rogermccray]

Originally Posted by WetShepherd

Yes, although as warpig mentioned, you aren't exactly starting from scratch. As long as you keep your rock wet then you'll retain the important bacteria that you've grown. In other words, your cycle will pick up almost where it left off.

Agreed, just put your rock in a storage container, a rubber maid tote or brute trash can, add a heater and a pump and it will be fine. You might get a mini cycle when you move the rock back in, just because you take the rock out and put it back in the water, but you might not even notice it as long they stay wet.

[Jeremynickles]

Alright awesome thanks for the info