The positives of........ Metal halides!!

meshwheel · 11/19/2011, 09:16 PM

LOL,
All right, so here's "MY TAKE" on the LED Revolution and why I see metal halides staying around a long LONG time!!!!
First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps
I have researched the info on past climate changes and the verdict is out: WE ARE WITHIN 2 DEGREES OF NORMAL FOLKS!!!! And "our years" compared to the earth's are well.....MINISCULE to say the least. We would need about another 600 year's or so in this time line to really be able to tell what's going on here as far as climate changes. Yes, it's changing! Why, I do not know. But I wont Lie and say I do. Like so many have

So my purchasing LED's will NOT be for any green reasons. I do however like the adjustability of color over metal halides. I like the diming over metal halides however we have all used our own unique solutions to this:
1. Cutting/ Lengthening the time our metals burn.
2. Raising or lowering the pendent itself.
3. Screening over the top of the tank, etc.
They all work and work well. We can grow some awesome corals with metal halides. I am still running a 250 watt pendent with a Lumenbright lighting fixture. I am currently using a Hamilton 250 watt 14K bulb and love it! It brings out colors in my Acros(OTHER THEN BLUES) that my Radium 20K washed out.
Here's what I like about my halides:
1. Awesome light intensity that Acros just love!
2. With the right reflector, penetration that I do not think anything can replicate. My "ONE" 250 watt pendent is 18 INCHES ABOVE MY WATER LEVEL!!!!
3. Loads of color choices!
4. Loads of differnt brands
5. Initial purchase price: If you watch your dollars, you can get a nice set up for a reasonable price.
6. Much much less complex then a LED system. Pretty modular too!
My PAR readings with a Apogee meter are very VERY POTENT with this lumenbright fixture. 18 inches above my water surface with a glass cover on the pendant and 6 inches below the water surface and I still have a PAR reading of 400!!!!!!!! Thats pretty dam good. I honestly I do not think I have seen a LED that could do that. And I am not saying it has to. I like the LED's and the technology is rapidly advancing!
So what about efficiency???? Can we campare the two???? That for me is kind of like comparing apples to oranges in a way.
For the LED to get even close in terms of a halides photon output, it has to have mulitple LED's burning. A halide just has to have one.
And the LED's lets face it have very efficent reflectors because they are so small and compact.
I know LED's work. Light photons are light photons. We are not making up some "NEW" light photons here!!!
And as far as looks?????? As far as SEXY????? I am 45 years old and only two things have ver really looks sexy to me:
A nice figure on a girl that knows how to dress. My wife.
I do not consider the "Sexy" thing on a lighting purchase for my reef tank. Maybe I am old school. Just my opinion.
And as LED's get even more popular, Metal Halide bulb prices will continue to drop. Maybe someone will even come out with a better ballast that uses less electricity.
Not saying I am right on everything here.. Jsut my thoughts!

reefereef · 11/19/2011, 09:37 PM

i used to run 400w xm20k's with lumenarc reflectors over my old tank, no actinics, color was good and growth was crazy. My encrusting montis never looked too great and the over all tank was a tuch dull, no crazy pinks or blues. On my new tank i run 50/50 white and royal blue LEDS, 120 in total on two dimable drivers, with a mixture of 80,40 & 60* optics. My colors are simply amazing, getting better by the day as i am fighting high phosphates, blue and pinks are very vibrant. On my old setup i tried hamilton 14ks and a bunch of other bulbs and never got the colors i am getting now. Old setup was over 1K watts for the display , 6' tank, and new setup is less than 1K watts, almost 900W for the entire system on my 8' tank. The water i evaporate in a week is less than what i would evaporate in one day on my old halide system.

Halides are nice, but, you really have to compare the two over the same tank and give the tank time to adjust to the different lighting to compare and then you will see the difference in LEDS.

jbannick18 · 11/19/2011, 09:49 PM

"First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps"

I stopped reading here. What a stupid statement

michael.lemke · 11/19/2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbannick18

"First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps"

I stopped reading here. What a stupid statement

No need to read more. Rant

meshwheel · 11/19/2011, 09:57 PM

reefereef,
Great info there! Thanks! Is this a system you made yourself? Thats really interesting, as you did not mention you have any greens or reds in your led line up!
I did have a good look at the AI Sol Blues and really liked the power and the Adjustability. Then I looked at the Acan's which are now made in China. Even better color! As they use their own 12K white LED's.
And now the Radion! Looks very close to my old 20K Radium bulb! A really nice looking color combo! And I was pleaseantly surprised with Skull's PAR readings!
So your running approx. 360 watt in LED's ? Thats less then half in electricity! Pretty good! Thank you for the input!

meshwheel · 11/19/2011, 10:02 PM

I figured the "green guys" would not like that. But I had to make my point that purchasing LED's "FOR ME" would not be because I felt I would be contibuting to less fossil fuel use. We have enough to last us the next 900 years easy!
And hey, I can take it! Bring it on....................lol

rtparty · 11/19/2011, 10:30 PM

I see a couple flaws, well more misinformation.

Give me a 120w Ecoxotic Cannon and I will blow the 400 PAR out of the water. The PAR meter is pegged at its absolute maximum until you get 24" away from the light. Why do you need this much light? Because you are lighting a tank that is over 36" deep and need the light.

Also going green is NOT all about fossil fuel usage. I don't believe in climate change at all. Let me know when we've studied the climate for over 500 years. Yes, we've gotten warmer but it is not a political issue like we make it. Solar power is freaking awesome but it needs more than money thrown at it to become a winner.

I also don't see metal halide bulbs coming down in price. Things aren't getting cheaper these days. Especially objects that are such an environmental threat. If a MH bulb breaks, it technically has enough mercury that hazmat should be called to clean it up. Also governments will eventually step in and regulate the metal halide bulbs. But I don't see that happening because of LEDs. I use and love LEDs over my tank but they have a ton of shortcomings.

I really like the pendant ideas that Kessil uses and the Ecoxotic Cannons employ. Mix and match the LED chips forr superior spectrum control.

barjam · 11/19/2011, 10:57 PM

I have been on here for years and this has to be the least informed posts I have ever read. I had a long post refuting everything you said with multiple references but realized it would be a waste of time.

Heck I am not even a "green guy". I don't recycle, still run MH and drive a V8 muscle car.

ganjero · 11/19/2011, 11:26 PM

This should be closed now. Unfortunately it will wrong really fast as many people take comments too personal.

Your post really does not have much to do with your title (It seems more like instigation than discussion). It's mostly an attack to a newer technology. Your actual list for the benefits of Halides can also apply to T5s and even LEDs. Finally, please keep your political views out of a reef forum.

meshwheel · 11/19/2011, 11:49 PM

Ryan,
I would love to see the Canon PAR numbers. Are there any on this forum? I can and will do a search. They do not seem to be too popular. If memory serves me correctly, I did not see a one at reef-a-palooza??? I will look on their website. I hope they post some PAR numbers!

Barjam, just PM it to me and tell me what I mentioned that's wrong? My post was too put up differences in metal halides vs. LED's???
And that's exactly what I did! I would never buy one becasue I felt I was helping the environment! PERIOD!!!! Just like I would never purchase a Prius car. BUT I WONT GO THERE, BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED!
Ganjero, and thats your personal opinion. My post has EVERYTHING to do with my title.
Please, lets keep to the Metal Halide and LED +'s and -'s!
Thanks!

karsseboom · 11/20/2011, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefereef

i used to run 400w xm20k's with lumenarc reflectors over my old tank, no actinics, color was good and growth was crazy. My encrusting montis never looked too great and the over all tank was a tuch dull, no crazy pinks or blues. On my new tank i run 50/50 white and royal blue LEDS, 120 in total on two dimable drivers, with a mixture of 80,40 & 60* optics. My colors are simply amazing, getting better by the day as i am fighting high phosphates, blue and pinks are very vibrant. On my old setup i tried hamilton 14ks and a bunch of other bulbs and never got the colors i am getting now. Old setup was over 1K watts for the display , 6' tank, and new setup is less than 1K watts, almost 900W for the entire system on my 8' tank. The water i evaporate in a week is less than what i would evaporate in one day on my old halide system.

Halides are nice, but, you really have to compare the two over the same tank and give the tank time to adjust to the different lighting to compare and then you will see the difference in LEDS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbannick18

"First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps"

I stopped reading here. What a stupid statement

Thats a great commnet he's right on path. Going green is ridiculous!

HippieSmell · 11/20/2011, 12:36 AM

Somebody has been drinking and posting.

reefereef · 11/20/2011, 12:37 AM

Yes I built my led setup myself. There are no red or green leds in the build either. And yes I run around 360w if at 100% intensity, I run whites at 85% and actinic at 100% . My apex shows 3.2 amps total draw on the display and I have 3 40w pumps that aren't on the apex control.

And going green for me means using less electricity and keeping the green only wallet.

Piper27 · 11/20/2011, 06:59 AM

I was hoping to find a good topic here and did! Sorry I know this isn't helping anything but I had to...

"We have enough to last us the next 900 years easy!"

Well I am glad to hear we have the fossil fuel dependancy figured out!

"I have researched the info on past climate changes and the verdict is out: WE ARE WITHIN 2 DEGREES OF NORMAL FOLKS!!!!"

Only 2? Whats all the fuss about then?

"It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps"

Yea

"We would need about another 600 year's or so in this time line to really be able to tell what's going on here as far as climate changes."

Oh okay good, so what they have figured out in this 100 year stretch or whatever means nothing, we just need to sit and do nothing for 600 years before we can REALLY tell whats going on and have any chance of doing anything about it.

"Just like I would never purchase a Prius car. BUT I WONT GO THERE, BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED!"

No no no, please do...

Reeferwill561 · 11/20/2011, 09:39 AM

I agree with the OP in terms of going green. With the thousands of dollars we spend on our fishtanks and we are just trying to save a couple bucks every month on electricity? Cmon man its so worth it to spend the extra money and get a halide ( at least in my personal opinion) I haven't heard or seen of anybody having the same growth or color out of LED lights other than on these forums.

As far as politics, the Op is right. Obama is using the term "green" to rob us blind. It shows how uneducated people are on current politics here ( Btw that's great! It's too depressing )

I only use low power Leds as moonlights, that's it.

foxriverat · 11/20/2011, 09:44 AM

Political coments should be kept to political forums. Very rarely will you change someones view on things. It only starts arguments. And I want to read about lights.

meshwheel · 11/20/2011, 10:53 AM

So whats all the fuss??? I only stated what I did, to say:
IF OR WHEN I GO LED, IT WILL BE FOR COLOR AND OPTIONS. AND I AM STILL ON THE FENCE A BIT WITH THEM. I have spoken with AI Sol owners who are still NOT convinced they can get the same results as halides.
It's going to be real tuff for someone to "suck a Ho Ho" and come out and say: Yea, I bought 4 of these things..................AND I HATE EM!!!!
I will say if the colors are not better......................................NO WAY AM I CHANGING! The initial purchase price is still too high in my opinion.
Someone on here mentioned "PRICE WONT GO DOWN" Well I remember people saying that about their homes too!!!!!!! It's all about "Supply and Demand"
I used to pay 150.00 for 400 watt Osram powerstar German metal Halide bulbs 10-15 years ago. They are cheaper now as are the Radiums. And with LED's and even T5 popularity rising I look for them to drop more.
Now we have guys like reefereef that are very happy with their set ups and state color output is even better with just blues and whites.
For me, I still need more time to make the jump. And prices need to come down more.
I just switched my lights over on my home to compact floursecents. And it was ONLY BECAUSE the bulbs where on sale for 89 Cents each at wall mart!
And they are nowhere near as bright as my 100 watt incandescents where.
But I am liking the AI SOL Blues, the Radium's and the Kessil's look to have great color!
I checked out the Ecoxotic Cannon's and still need to do more studying on them. I found 50 watters and 100 watters and so far I am NOT impressed with the PAR numbers.
You know it makes me wonder too if a even tighter metal halide reflector would make them even more efficient in terms of PAR.
Seems to me a DE metal would be a great start!

brutuscz · 11/20/2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meshwheel

LOL,
All right, so here's "MY TAKE" on the LED Revolution and why I see metal halides staying around a long LONG time!!!!
First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps
I have researched the info on past climate changes and the verdict is out: WE ARE WITHIN 2 DEGREES OF NORMAL FOLKS!!!! And "our years" compared to the earth's are well.....MINISCULE to say the least. We would need about another 600 year's or so in this time line to really be able to tell what's going on here as far as climate changes. Yes, it's changing! Why, I do not know. But I wont Lie and say I do. Like so many have

So my purchasing LED's will NOT be for any green reasons. I do however like the adjustability of color over metal halides. I like the diming over metal halides however we have all used our own unique solutions to this:
1. Cutting/ Lengthening the time our metals burn.
2. Raising or lowering the pendent itself.
3. Screening over the top of the tank, etc.
They all work and work well. We can grow some awesome corals with metal halides. I am still running a 250 watt pendent with a Lumenbright lighting fixture. I am currently using a Hamilton 250 watt 14K bulb and love it! It brings out colors in my Acros(OTHER THEN BLUES) that my Radium 20K washed out.
Here's what I like about my halides:
1. Awesome light intensity that Acros just love!
2. With the right reflector, penetration that I do not think anything can replicate. My "ONE" 250 watt pendent is 18 INCHES ABOVE MY WATER LEVEL!!!!
3. Loads of color choices!
4. Loads of differnt brands
5. Initial purchase price: If you watch your dollars, you can get a nice set up for a reasonable price.
6. Much much less complex then a LED system. Pretty modular too!
My PAR readings with a Apogee meter are very VERY POTENT with this lumenbright fixture. 18 inches above my water surface with a glass cover on the pendant and 6 inches below the water surface and I still have a PAR reading of 400!!!!!!!! Thats pretty dam good. I honestly I do not think I have seen a LED that could do that. And I am not saying it has to. I like the LED's and the technology is rapidly advancing!
So what about efficiency???? Can we campare the two???? That for me is kind of like comparing apples to oranges in a way.
For the LED to get even close in terms of a halides photon output, it has to have mulitple LED's burning. A halide just has to have one.
And the LED's lets face it have very efficent reflectors because they are so small and compact.
I know LED's work. Light photons are light photons. We are not making up some "NEW" light photons here!!!
And as far as looks?????? As far as SEXY????? I am 45 years old and only two things have ver really looks sexy to me:
A nice figure on a girl that knows how to dress. My wife.
I do not consider the "Sexy" thing on a lighting purchase for my reef tank. Maybe I am old school. Just my opinion.
And as LED's get even more popular, Metal Halide bulb prices will continue to drop. Maybe someone will even come out with a better ballast that uses less electricity.
Not saying I am right on everything here.. Jsut my thoughts!

Just for fun...your climate change statements are utter nonsense. Dont believe me? Here are a couple of thousand university level studies done worldwide to support it. Maybe you should read a few before you let the gop brainwash you some more.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/
Believe the studies...or believe sarah palin, LOL!! the choice is yours!!

meshwheel · 11/20/2011, 11:01 AM

It seems to me that some LED's use MANIFICATION to strengthen their output????? I know metal halides do not and more then likely could not due to the nature of their size.
Magnification through the lens seems to be "key" to getting those PAR numbers up higher. Without any magnification lenses, you need a butt load more led's to make it happen!

HippieSmell · 11/20/2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meshwheel

Someone on here mentioned "PRICE WONT GO DOWN" Well I remember people saying that about their homes too!!!!!!! It's all about "Supply and Demand"

The housing crash has nothing to do with supply and demand. Unless by supply, you mean too many crooked bankers.

meshwheel · 11/20/2011, 11:12 AM

brutuscz,
Your fooled by the very people who started this nonsense. The head guy behind ALL OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE JARGON LIED ABOUT HIS SO CALLED "DEGREE"! He came out and admitted it! HE was caught red handed!!!
Yes, we are having more radical weather. Why?? I do not know. Why are greenhouse gasses higher? We do not know. Scientists only can speculate. Not enough data yet. Not enough time.
But lets keep this on the lighting ok? I personally stated in MY FIRST POST: These are my opinions and reasons, and if and when I do go LED it will have nothing to do with going green or helping the environment. PERIOD.

Mj75 · 11/20/2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippiesmell

somebody has been drinking and posting.

+1

11/19/2011, 09:16 PM	#1
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	The positives of........ Metal halides!! LOL, All right, so here's "MY TAKE" on the LED Revolution and why I see metal halides staying around a long LONG time!!!! First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps I have researched the info on past climate changes and the verdict is out: WE ARE WITHIN 2 DEGREES OF NORMAL FOLKS!!!! And "our years" compared to the earth's are well.....MINISCULE to say the least. We would need about another 600 year's or so in this time line to really be able to tell what's going on here as far as climate changes. Yes, it's changing! Why, I do not know. But I wont Lie and say I do. Like so many have So my purchasing LED's will NOT be for any green reasons. I do however like the adjustability of color over metal halides. I like the diming over metal halides however we have all used our own unique solutions to this: 1. Cutting/ Lengthening the time our metals burn. 2. Raising or lowering the pendent itself. 3. Screening over the top of the tank, etc. They all work and work well. We can grow some awesome corals with metal halides. I am still running a 250 watt pendent with a Lumenbright lighting fixture. I am currently using a Hamilton 250 watt 14K bulb and love it! It brings out colors in my Acros(OTHER THEN BLUES) that my Radium 20K washed out. Here's what I like about my halides: 1. Awesome light intensity that Acros just love! 2. With the right reflector, penetration that I do not think anything can replicate. My "ONE" 250 watt pendent is 18 INCHES ABOVE MY WATER LEVEL!!!! 3. Loads of color choices! 4. Loads of differnt brands 5. Initial purchase price: If you watch your dollars, you can get a nice set up for a reasonable price. 6. Much much less complex then a LED system. Pretty modular too! My PAR readings with a Apogee meter are very VERY POTENT with this lumenbright fixture. 18 inches above my water surface with a glass cover on the pendant and 6 inches below the water surface and I still have a PAR reading of 400!!!!!!!! Thats pretty dam good. I honestly I do not think I have seen a LED that could do that. And I am not saying it has to. I like the LED's and the technology is rapidly advancing! So what about efficiency???? Can we campare the two???? That for me is kind of like comparing apples to oranges in a way. For the LED to get even close in terms of a halides photon output, it has to have mulitple LED's burning. A halide just has to have one. And the LED's lets face it have very efficent reflectors because they are so small and compact. I know LED's work. Light photons are light photons. We are not making up some "NEW" light photons here!!! And as far as looks?????? As far as SEXY????? I am 45 years old and only two things have ver really looks sexy to me: A nice figure on a girl that knows how to dress. My wife. I do not consider the "Sexy" thing on a lighting purchase for my reef tank. Maybe I am old school. Just my opinion. And as LED's get even more popular, Metal Halide bulb prices will continue to drop. Maybe someone will even come out with a better ballast that uses less electricity. Not saying I am right on everything here.. Jsut my thoughts!

11/19/2011, 10:30 PM	#7
rtparty Raise The Reef! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 7,404	I see a couple flaws, well more misinformation. Give me a 120w Ecoxotic Cannon and I will blow the 400 PAR out of the water. The PAR meter is pegged at its absolute maximum until you get 24" away from the light. Why do you need this much light? Because you are lighting a tank that is over 36" deep and need the light. Also going green is NOT all about fossil fuel usage. I don't believe in climate change at all. Let me know when we've studied the climate for over 500 years. Yes, we've gotten warmer but it is not a political issue like we make it. Solar power is freaking awesome but it needs more than money thrown at it to become a winner. I also don't see metal halide bulbs coming down in price. Things aren't getting cheaper these days. Especially objects that are such an environmental threat. If a MH bulb breaks, it technically has enough mercury that hazmat should be called to clean it up. Also governments will eventually step in and regulate the metal halide bulbs. But I don't see that happening because of LEDs. I use and love LEDs over my tank but they have a ton of shortcomings. I really like the pendant ideas that Kessil uses and the Ecoxotic Cannons employ. Mix and match the LED chips forr superior spectrum control. __________________ Ryan Click on my user name and check out my homepage! Current Tank Info: 50g Cadlights/Giesemann Spectra (250w Radium, 2 ATI Blue Plus, 2 ATI Actinic)/2 x Vortech MP10wQD/Skimz SN123/Eheim Compact 3000+

11/19/2011, 11:26 PM	#9
ganjero saiperchémibatteilcorazon Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 4,027	This should be closed now. Unfortunately it will wrong really fast as many people take comments too personal. Your post really does not have much to do with your title (It seems more like instigation than discussion). It's mostly an attack to a newer technology. Your actual list for the benefits of Halides can also apply to T5s and even LEDs. Finally, please keep your political views out of a reef forum. Last edited by ganjero; 11/19/2011 at 11:31 PM.

11/20/2011, 12:36 AM	#12
HippieSmell Occupy Reef Central Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Orbiting Posts: 4,141	Somebody has been drinking and posting. __________________ Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas. Current Tank Info: 78"x36"x27" acrylic, 6 Orphek Atlantik V3+ Compacts, MRC Orca Pro II w/washdown, CalcFeeder Pro AC3, Emperor Aquatics 80w UV, 80/20 aluminum stand, Vortech MP60's, Theiling Rollermat, GHL Profilux 3.1T EX, Kessil H380

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
150W Metal Halide upgrade on 24G Nanocube	raesunrae	Nano Reefs	3	10/05/2010 01:22 PM
skimmers and metal halides??	billydan	New to the Hobby	2	03/29/2010 09:41 PM
WTB: 150 Metal Halide w/ or w/o T5's	Jboulerice	Florida Marine Aquarium Society (FMAS) - Miami/Ft. Lauderdale	1	03/05/2010 01:33 PM
Metal Halide Question...	bzotter	Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment	3	11/03/2009 10:40 PM
Need 24" Metal Halide or combo light	pjscales	Northern Ohio Reef Keepers	15	11/03/2009 05:42 PM

11/19/2011, 09:37 PM	#2
reefereef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 325	i used to run 400w xm20k's with lumenarc reflectors over my old tank, no actinics, color was good and growth was crazy. My encrusting montis never looked too great and the over all tank was a tuch dull, no crazy pinks or blues. On my new tank i run 50/50 white and royal blue LEDS, 120 in total on two dimable drivers, with a mixture of 80,40 & 60* optics. My colors are simply amazing, getting better by the day as i am fighting high phosphates, blue and pinks are very vibrant. On my old setup i tried hamilton 14ks and a bunch of other bulbs and never got the colors i am getting now. Old setup was over 1K watts for the display , 6' tank, and new setup is less than 1K watts, almost 900W for the entire system on my 8' tank. The water i evaporate in a week is less than what i would evaporate in one day on my old halide system. Halides are nice, but, you really have to compare the two over the same tank and give the tank time to adjust to the different lighting to compare and then you will see the difference in LEDS.

11/19/2011, 09:49 PM	#3
jbannick18 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 312	"First off, I do NOT buy into this "GO GREEN stuff!!! It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps" I stopped reading here. What a stupid statement

11/19/2011, 09:57 PM	#5
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	reefereef, Great info there! Thanks! Is this a system you made yourself? Thats really interesting, as you did not mention you have any greens or reds in your led line up! I did have a good look at the AI Sol Blues and really liked the power and the Adjustability. Then I looked at the Acan's which are now made in China. Even better color! As they use their own 12K white LED's. And now the Radion! Looks very close to my old 20K Radium bulb! A really nice looking color combo! And I was pleaseantly surprised with Skull's PAR readings! So your running approx. 360 watt in LED's ? Thats less then half in electricity! Pretty good! Thank you for the input!

11/19/2011, 10:02 PM	#6
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	I figured the "green guys" would not like that. But I had to make my point that purchasing LED's "FOR ME" would not be because I felt I would be contibuting to less fossil fuel use. We have enough to last us the next 900 years easy! And hey, I can take it! Bring it on....................lol

11/19/2011, 10:57 PM	#8
barjam Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,695	I have been on here for years and this has to be the least informed posts I have ever read. I had a long post refuting everything you said with multiple references but realized it would be a waste of time. Heck I am not even a "green guy". I don't recycle, still run MH and drive a V8 muscle car.

11/19/2011, 11:49 PM	#10
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	Ryan, I would love to see the Canon PAR numbers. Are there any on this forum? I can and will do a search. They do not seem to be too popular. If memory serves me correctly, I did not see a one at reef-a-palooza??? I will look on their website. I hope they post some PAR numbers! Barjam, just PM it to me and tell me what I mentioned that's wrong? My post was too put up differences in metal halides vs. LED's??? And that's exactly what I did! I would never buy one becasue I felt I was helping the environment! PERIOD!!!! Just like I would never purchase a Prius car. BUT I WONT GO THERE, BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED! Ganjero, and thats your personal opinion. My post has EVERYTHING to do with my title. Please, lets keep to the Metal Halide and LED +'s and -'s! Thanks!

11/20/2011, 12:37 AM	#13
reefereef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 325	Yes I built my led setup myself. There are no red or green leds in the build either. And yes I run around 360w if at 100% intensity, I run whites at 85% and actinic at 100% . My apex shows 3.2 amps total draw on the display and I have 3 40w pumps that aren't on the apex control. And going green for me means using less electricity and keeping the green only wallet.

11/20/2011, 06:59 AM	#14
Piper27 I love bengals Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Manassas Virginia Posts: 2,512	I was hoping to find a good topic here and did! Sorry I know this isn't helping anything but I had to... "We have enough to last us the next 900 years easy!" Well I am glad to hear we have the fossil fuel dependancy figured out! "I have researched the info on past climate changes and the verdict is out: WE ARE WITHIN 2 DEGREES OF NORMAL FOLKS!!!!" Only 2? Whats all the fuss about then? "It has bankrupted Spain, and if Obama does not quit blowing Billions of dollars on solar we are following in their footsteps" Yea "We would need about another 600 year's or so in this time line to really be able to tell what's going on here as far as climate changes." Oh okay good, so what they have figured out in this 100 year stretch or whatever means nothing, we just need to sit and do nothing for 600 years before we can REALLY tell whats going on and have any chance of doing anything about it. "Just like I would never purchase a Prius car. BUT I WONT GO THERE, BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED!" No no no, please do...

11/20/2011, 09:39 AM	#15
Reeferwill561 Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Gainesville Posts: 120	I agree with the OP in terms of going green. With the thousands of dollars we spend on our fishtanks and we are just trying to save a couple bucks every month on electricity? Cmon man its so worth it to spend the extra money and get a halide ( at least in my personal opinion) I haven't heard or seen of anybody having the same growth or color out of LED lights other than on these forums. As far as politics, the Op is right. Obama is using the term "green" to rob us blind. It shows how uneducated people are on current politics here ( Btw that's great! It's too depressing ) I only use low power Leds as moonlights, that's it.

11/20/2011, 09:44 AM	#16
foxriverat Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Geneva IL Posts: 74	Political coments should be kept to political forums. Very rarely will you change someones view on things. It only starts arguments. And I want to read about lights.

11/20/2011, 10:53 AM	#17
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	So whats all the fuss??? I only stated what I did, to say: IF OR WHEN I GO LED, IT WILL BE FOR COLOR AND OPTIONS. AND I AM STILL ON THE FENCE A BIT WITH THEM. I have spoken with AI Sol owners who are still NOT convinced they can get the same results as halides. It's going to be real tuff for someone to "suck a Ho Ho" and come out and say: Yea, I bought 4 of these things..................AND I HATE EM!!!! I will say if the colors are not better......................................NO WAY AM I CHANGING! The initial purchase price is still too high in my opinion. Someone on here mentioned "PRICE WONT GO DOWN" Well I remember people saying that about their homes too!!!!!!! It's all about "Supply and Demand" I used to pay 150.00 for 400 watt Osram powerstar German metal Halide bulbs 10-15 years ago. They are cheaper now as are the Radiums. And with LED's and even T5 popularity rising I look for them to drop more. Now we have guys like reefereef that are very happy with their set ups and state color output is even better with just blues and whites. For me, I still need more time to make the jump. And prices need to come down more. I just switched my lights over on my home to compact floursecents. And it was ONLY BECAUSE the bulbs where on sale for 89 Cents each at wall mart! And they are nowhere near as bright as my 100 watt incandescents where. But I am liking the AI SOL Blues, the Radium's and the Kessil's look to have great color! I checked out the Ecoxotic Cannon's and still need to do more studying on them. I found 50 watters and 100 watters and so far I am NOT impressed with the PAR numbers. You know it makes me wonder too if a even tighter metal halide reflector would make them even more efficient in terms of PAR. Seems to me a DE metal would be a great start!

11/20/2011, 11:01 AM	#19
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	It seems to me that some LED's use MANIFICATION to strengthen their output????? I know metal halides do not and more then likely could not due to the nature of their size. Magnification through the lens seems to be "key" to getting those PAR numbers up higher. Without any magnification lenses, you need a butt load more led's to make it happen!

11/20/2011, 11:12 AM	#21
meshwheel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,430	brutuscz, Your fooled by the very people who started this nonsense. The head guy behind ALL OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE JARGON LIED ABOUT HIS SO CALLED "DEGREE"! He came out and admitted it! HE was caught red handed!!! Yes, we are having more radical weather. Why?? I do not know. Why are greenhouse gasses higher? We do not know. Scientists only can speculate. Not enough data yet. Not enough time. But lets keep this on the lighting ok? I personally stated in MY FIRST POST: These are my opinions and reasons, and if and when I do go LED it will have nothing to do with going green or helping the environment. PERIOD.