Question for those who don't quarantine

[99taws6]

Ok here is my questions:

Who here does not use a quarantine tank for new livestock?

How do you deal with disease such as ich or velvet if our fish develop it?

Would you have a quarantine tank if money and space were not a problem?

Thanks

[sandwi54]

statistics show that 90% of the aquarists do not use QT, so you don't have to take a poll. this topic has been beaten to death.

the problem with not using QT is that most people eventually realize they need to, often after losing massive number of livestocks due to disease. along the way many quit the hobby due to frustrations, which gives rise to so many posts on used equipment on craigslist everyday. those who stick to the end go on their ways and religiously quarantine every new addition.

when i first started out years ago i didn't know that i had to quarantine, until i got ich in my tank. i ended up losing half of my fish before i was able to succesfully treat all my fish. you're gonna hear both sides of the story, those who swear by quarantining and those who "lucked out" without a QT and say you don't have to QT if you buy healthy fish.

conclusion among the experienced aquarists is: to be 100% successful, a QT is needed.

[99taws6]

Ok well that being said I have a 30gallon cube right now with a valentini puffer, watchman goby/pistol pair, lawnmower blenny, red flame hawk and a pair of o. Clowns. I also have an anemone, flower pot coral and lr/ls. I lost a foxface and a coral beauty to ich. The stress was a Niger trigger who has been removed.

I only have a 12 gallon nano tank that would be used as a QT tank. It has no filter other than a mj900 and a sponge. I also have a pair of koralia nanos I could use.

Would the snails/crabs/conch be ok in the 30 for the 8 weeks to let the ich die? Would the other fish be ok in the 12 to treat with copper or hyposalinity?

[lordofthereef]

Originally Posted by 99taws6

How do you deal with disease such as ich or velvet if our fish develop it?

You don't. Your fish croak and you continue to dump in more until you are so depressed that you decide you just can't cut it in this hobby. (as always, not YOU, but the universal you)

[danil]

+1 Most of the people not following QT procedure and many left the hobby out of frustration unable to save fish life and dealing with 'treatments' routine. If you think there is treatment for ich - thing again. There are tons of product and methods but there is no proven treatment. In many cases medication kills those poor fish before ich.
So if you're OK to accept 80% chance to lost most (or all) your fish with every new addition - go for it and forget about QT. Sometimes there is no other option not all of us has space and time for QT.

[sandwi54]

Originally Posted by 99taws6

Ok well that being said I have a 30gallon cube right now with a valentini puffer, watchman goby/pistol pair, lawnmower blenny, red flame hawk and a pair of o. Clowns. I also have an anemone, flower pot coral and lr/ls. I lost a foxface and a coral beauty to ich. The stress was a Niger trigger who has been removed.

I only have a 12 gallon nano tank that would be used as a QT tank. It has no filter other than a mj900 and a sponge. I also have a pair of koralia nanos I could use.

Would the snails/crabs/conch be ok in the 30 for the 8 weeks to let the ich die? Would the other fish be ok in the 12 to treat with copper or hyposalinity?

I would suggest a 20g long tank to quarantine all those fish. preferrably it should be cycled so you don't have to worry about water quality issue. this means you should have a filter. a lot of people including me really like the aquaclear HOB filters. it's strong and the sponge as plenty of surface area to grow bacteria.

by the way, ich doesn't come from stress. it's a parasite and you either have it or you don't. when the environment is stress-free, fish's immune system is strong enough to fend off most of the ich attacks, but they STILL get infected (especially in the gills where you can't see). when there's a large stress, the immune system drops and fish get heavy infections and possibly die, which is what happened in your case.

the inverts are going to be ok in the 30g. just feed them like how you feed fish.

[randomfishguy85]

Originally Posted by danil

+1 Most of the people not following QT procedure and many left the hobby out of frustration unable to save fish life and dealing with 'treatments' routine. If you think there is treatment for ich - thing again. There are tons of product and methods but there is no proven treatment. In many cases medication kills those poor fish before ich.
So if you're OK to accept 80% chance to lost most (or all) your fish with every new addition - go for it and forget about QT. Sometimes there is no other option not all of us has space and time for QT.

so copper and hypo arent cures for ich? if there is no cure for ich what is the point in qting fish?

[sandwi54]

Originally Posted by danil

+1 Most of the people not following QT procedure and many left the hobby out of frustration unable to save fish life and dealing with 'treatments' routine. If you think there is treatment for ich - thing again. There are tons of product and methods but there is no proven treatment. In many cases medication kills those poor fish before ich.
So if you're OK to accept 80% chance to lost most (or all) your fish with every new addition - go for it and forget about QT. Sometimes there is no other option not all of us has space and time for QT.

copper and hyposalinity, and tank transfer methods are scientifically proven to kill ich, when administered CORRECTLY. many people who attempt one of these methods and fail likely have missed something along the way. I have treated close to 40 or 50 fish with both hyposalinity and cupramine, and have been successful everytime except for one, when i had to cut the treatment short on an angelfish who had bad reactions to cupramine.

i have read from some sources that there's a new ich strain that is more resistant to hyposalinity (1.008-1.009). i do not know the validity of this until it's scientifically proven. for now i stand by my statement that copper and hyposalinity will cure ich 99% of the time if done correctly.

[danil]

I totally respect Send statement above. Ich can be cured and his experiments prove it. In the same time I stay my point all ich treatment harmful for fish and its really hard to find that fine line between life and death. Hyposalinity never worked for me. I tried few times. Back to your question why you need QT tank if there is not proven treatment? Just to do what it says - quarantine! It's not giving that your QT tank is a hospital tank. Copper treatment permanently(!) damage the tank. After copper treatment tank can not be used as a reef tank and corals cant be quarantine in that tank anymore. So the main purpose of the QT - quarantine. If fish get sick in QT your livestock in main tank wont be effected. That's why you have your DT and QT physically apart. Not using same tools on both tanks etc.

[Lynnmw1208]

I QT most of my fish, but some I did not since they have poor survival rates in QT. I did not QT my mandarin, jawfish, kole tang and tailspot blenny. The mandarin for obvious reasons, the jawfish requires sand which my QT does not have, kole tang because I have heard they do terrible without rocks to graze on and my tailspot blenny was kept under observation at the store.

That being said, I buy from a reputable store only. All of his tanks are separate so disease cannot spread. He does not run them all in one system. *Knock on wood* I have not had an issue yet. I did QT the rest of my fish though and treated them with prazipro.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by danil

Copper treatment permanently(!) damage the tank. After copper treatment tank can not be used as a reef tank and corals cant be quarantine in that tank anymore.

Not entirely true. The tank and equipment can be used. I'm using a 20g long for my mantis tank now with thriving corals that I used to use as a QT tank with copper. I now use a big plastic bin for QT. I wouldn't use rock or sand that was treated but the tank and pump I'm using was in copper. Cleaned it all with vinegar and ran some carbon and a polyfilter just in case.

[cloak]

I've never QT a fish and have gotten by just fine. Don't get me wrong, there have been a few instances where things didn't work out the way they should, but the odds have always seemed to work out in my favor. I do however take the eXtra time to observe & study the fish before I purchase it. Is it eating, does it twitch or scratch, is the breathing normal etc. Here's a couple good articles. GL.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

[andy51656]

Originally Posted by 99taws6

Ok well that being said I have a 30gallon cube right now with a valentini puffer, watchman goby/pistol pair, lawnmower blenny, red flame hawk and a pair of o. Clowns. I also have an anemone, flower pot coral and lr/ls. I lost a foxface and a coral beauty to ich. The stress was a Niger trigger who has been removed.

I only have a 12 gallon nano tank that would be used as a QT tank. It has no filter other than a mj900 and a sponge. I also have a pair of koralia nanos I could use.

Would the snails/crabs/conch be ok in the 30 for the 8 weeks to let the ich die? Would the other fish be ok in the 12 to treat with copper or hyposalinity?

I am not forsure if I am reading this right but are you saying at one point in time you had a valentini puffer, watchman goby/pistol pair, lawnmower blenny, red flame hawk, pair of o. clowns, foxface, coral beauty, anemone, and a flower pot coral all in a 30 gallon cube?

[110galreef]

never QT in 7 yrs...never had one issue. Buy Local and online. stick with reputable online vendors. Had all sorts of livestock, and reef fishes, clams, inverts, wrasses, multiple tangs,clowns, gobies, etc...just don't over do.

I feel QT is one more step of furthur stress....


Corals on the other hand I am sure to DIP!

[b0bab0ey]

I never QT'd for my first 20 yrs in this hobby. Sure, I wiped out a tank or two but overall I guess I was just lucky. It helped back then that we didn't really use LR for filtration and mostly just kept FO tanks with dead coral skeletons, so you could just treat the entire DT if need be. My how times have changed (at least for me). If I don't QT a F'ing snail BAM ICH EVERYWHERE! I take no chances these days, I QT EVERYTHING WET before it goes in my DT.

[peppie]

Originally Posted by andy51656

I am not forsure if I am reading this right but are you saying at one point in time you had a valentini puffer, watchman goby/pistol pair, lawnmower blenny, red flame hawk, pair of o. clowns, foxface, coral beauty, anemone, and a flower pot coral all in a 30 gallon cube?

And he wonders if MI is stress related in this case?

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by 110galreef

...

I feel QT is one more step of furthur stress....

...

I have found QT time a great stress reducer especially for fish that are finicky eaters, hard to acclimate to aquarium life, or are easily picked on. You get a chance to get the fish transitioned into an aquarium with out having to compete with any of your other fish in the main DT. You also can transition the fish from one type of food the fish was eating to what ever you usually feed. There's all kinds of benefits of using a QT before adding a fish to your main tank. I always make sure the fish is eating before I use prophylactic treatments which can vary depending on the fish. Prazipro has always been a given.

QT for me can end up being 8 weeks or more because of the initial phase of making sure the fish is eating well. Not like it's an in and out deal in a couple days stressing the fish out. So, making the QT cozy and relaxing as possible is important to me. I've found that using lots of PVC piping has been helpfull. Making sure the QT tank is ready and cycled is also very helpful in reducing stress on the fish so you aren't doing constant water changes/treatments to fight ammonia. Research the needs of the fish and provide them. Like if the fish likes to bury in the sand then put in some sand, either in a deep container or the entire QT itself. Find out what the fish was eating and have it ready. If it was eating live ghost shrimp then you should have it ready as well. Fresh water dips are not evil and can provide quick instant relief of some aggressive parasites like flukes (not ich) to help prolong the need to use prazipro so you can make sure the fish is eating. Lots of tips out there and those were the ones on the top of my head to help a fish through QT with ease and actually better then just going straight into a display tank.

[bellis31]

Easy answer is you can go ahead and try not using a QT for your new fish but I guarantee that after the first time you wipe out an entire tank due to ICH you will QT everything.

I just purchased 2 B&W Clowns they both looked fine in the store, I watched them for 4 days before I purchased them. 16 days into QT they came down with ICH... now Im in HYPO and things are going well but I would have been ****ed if those fish had gone strait into my new tank with parasites.

[El richie]

every frag gets a dip, fish i think that qt ads to the stress of the fish so never have done it

[zhewitt04]

Something I have done to avoid ich and other parasites is buy only from guys I have met through local groups and such. I still QT them but most of the time if not all the time the fish has already been qt'd (previous owner) and have been in a tank for a long time without any issues. I try not to buy from pet stores and lfs. I buy snails and corals and some fish that i would not qt anyways like the mandrian. All tangs must be from a previous tank locally. This does hamper your selection but be patient people in MAS are always changing there tanks and are selling fish.

[danil]

I'm jealous here... 7 years without QT and no ich... For me it sounds like a miracle In my case It seems every store I tried local & online have fish with f-king ich. My luck is almost 100% ich positive if I buy from local LFS and 50x50 if I buy online. If I get fish from fellow reefer - its close to 100% ich free. I QT since my last wipe and haven't lost single fish since. So one of the best advise to one without QT - buy fish locally from fellow reefers

[110galreef]

always had cleaner shrimp....Not sure if that helps eliminate ich issues??

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by 110galreef

always had cleaner shrimp....Not sure if that helps eliminate ich issues??

They can help with some parasites but not with ich as it's under the skin. The white spots that you see are not the actual parasite.

[zeeter]

Never QT'd a single fish. Had one outbreak where some blue reef chromis came in from the LFS and quickly died of ICH, along with a coral beauty and a nox angel.

Another time I made the mistake of buying from petco and after putting a black ocellaris in with another blackie they both died of some sort of viral infection. These were in an isolated breeding tank, though, so no other fish were harmed.

I'm not against quarantining and it has its value. But then you've got the one-upmanship that goes with it on these boards. One guy says he quarantines for two weeks. Next guy says at least a month. Another guy says two months minimum. Eventually you're quarantining for six months.

Granted, I don't have any fish that cost over $50, so I'm a little less vulnerable to tank loss. Also, as someone else may have mentioned, putting a fish in quarantine is stressful. Stress can cause immunity problems. So taking them from the distribution point to the LFS to your QT to your DT easily could cause enough stress in a fish to make it susceptible to disease.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by zeeter

Never QT'd a single fish. Had one outbreak where some blue reef chromis came in from the LFS and quickly died of ICH, along with a coral beauty and a nox angel.

Another time I made the mistake of buying from petco and after putting a black ocellaris in with another blackie they both died of some sort of viral infection. These were in an isolated breeding tank, though, so no other fish were harmed.

Sorry for the losses. All of those are beautiful fish.

I'm not against quarantining and it has its value. But then you've got the one-upmanship that goes with it on these boards. One guy says he quarantines for two weeks. Next guy says at least a month. Another guy says two months minimum. Eventually you're quarantining for six months.

You need to understand what you are treating, what the life cycle is, and QT appropriately.

Granted, I don't have any fish that cost over $50, so I'm a little less vulnerable to tank loss.

I guess the loss of a pet is insignificant to you? Or do you not rank a fish to the level of a dog or cat?

Also, as someone else may have mentioned, putting a fish in quarantine is stressful. Stress can cause immunity problems. So taking them from the distribution point to the LFS to your QT to your DT easily could cause enough stress in a fish to make it susceptible to disease.

Already addressed the stress factor as being reduced going to a QT first instead of straight into a DT. The fish is already stressed from being caught, shoved in holding tank or bagged, taken to the collectors place, dropped in a holding tank, bagged up again, shipped, dropped in another holding tank, bagged again, shipped again, and dropped in another holding tank. To be bought and bagged up again and shipped to be dropped in maybe a slightly bigger holding tank at your home just to find they have competing animals and foreign substances you call food. That's just a basic summary and is a lot worse then that. It's amazing they survive in the first place and make it to our tanks.

Getting them into a QT first even if you don't treat is a stress reliever. No competition. They can be transitioned to the food that you want to feed. Accustomed to aquarium life with out being bullied and so on.